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just a thought

saulfactuspaul

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Just imagine... if Russian troops were amassed on America's borders

All we have to do to highlight the enormous hypocrisy and double standards which are the hallmark of domestic and international politics is to switch the names around.
Actions taken by Western establishment approved countries and actors which are deemed to be totally uncontroversial-would be deemed to be ‘absolutely outrageous’ if done to them.

Here’s a few examples:

Just imagine… if a close Russian ally, whose forces were trained by Russia, was bombing the poorest country in the Middle East, with cluster bombs supplied by Moscow. Furthermore, in the country that was being attacked, a famine threatened the lives millions of people.

Well, the poorest country in the Middle East is Yemen, and it’s being bombed to smithereens by the one of the richest, Saudi Arabia, a close ally of Britain, using UK-made cluster bombs. And guess what, the West’s ‘something must be done brigade,' who expressed so much ’humanitarian’ concern over the fighting to regain Aleppo from Al-Qaeda/Al Nusra terrorists, are silent. How strange.

Just imagine… if a plane carrying members of a famous French military choir had crashed on Christmas Day, killing everyone on board. And that shortly afterwards, a leading Russian ’satirical magazine’ had mocked the tragedy, drawing cartoons of the choir singing to 'a new audience’ on the seabed and posted a caption saying that the only ‘bad news’ about the crash was that French President Francois Hollande had not been on board. There would, I’m sure, have been plenty of 'superior’ discussion in Western media about the 'moral depravity' and the 'dark soul’ of the Russian character. But the plane that crashed was carrying Russian singers. And it was the elite-approved Charlie Hebdo magazine which poked fun at the dead.

So there was no outcry in the West. And no accusations of ‘racism.'

Just imagine… if it had been NATO, and not the Warsaw Pact, which had been disbanded at the end of the old Cold War. And then Russia, breaking the promises it had made to the US President, had expanded the Warsaw Pact right up to the borders of the USA, deploying thousands of troops and dozens of tanks and other military hardware in Mexico and Canada. Would commentators in ‘respectable‘ establishment journals be calling this ‘American aggression‘? I think not.

Just imagine... if a senior political officer at the Russian Embassy in London had been caught on film talking about the ‘take down’ of a British Foreign Officer Minister deemed to be too critical of Russia and who was causing the country "a lot of problems." That there was a group called ‘Labour Friends of Russia’ and the political officer said the Embassy had a fund of more than £1m for them? We can be sure that the revelations would have led, at the very least, to diplomatic expulsions, the announcement of a full-scale government investigation, as well as a plethora of articles on the ‘outrageous’ interference by Russia in British political affairs. But the senior political officer caught on film was working for Israel, so a potential plot about the ’take down’ of a UK minister was deemed to be not a very important news story. By more or less the same people who would have been telling us it was a very important news story if it had involved Russia.

Just imagine… if Hillary Clinton and not Donald Trump had won the US Presidential election in November and Trump’s supporters had behaved in the way that Clinton’s have. That intelligence officials had tried to de-legitimize Clinton’s victory by claiming Saudi interference in the election, and produced as proof of this a document which drew attention to Saudi TV‘s alleged pro-Clinton stance.

Then, a week before the inauguration of President-elect Clinton was due to take place, the US media publicized a dossier compiled by an ex-intelligence officer from another country claiming Saudi Arabia was blackmailing Clinton, even though the dossier was unverified and contained glaring factual errors. The papers would I’m sure be full of commentary from ’liberal’ pundits raging about a ‘coup’ and anti-democratic attempts to overturn the election result. However, Trump won on November 8th, and not Clinton, so he’s fair game for 'Deep State' attacks. All in the name of 'democracy.'

Just imagine… if UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn had urged MPs to support a socialist ’Peace Rocket,' which would cost the British taxpayer at least £31 billion and possibly as much as £205 billion, over its lifetime. That Corbyn had praised the ‘Peace Rocket’ as being ’worth every penny’ and absolutely essential for Britain and for the peace of the world. Then, after Parliament had voted in favor, it came to light that the Peace Rocket had misfired on a test and that Corbyn had kept schtum about it. That four times he had been asked by the BBC's Andrew Marr if he had known about the misfire, and four times he had avoided answering the question.

We can be sure the calls for Corbyn to resign would have been deafening. That there would have been fearsome denunciations of the 'enormous waste' of taxpayers money on a 'socialist vanity project.' And that the vote on the ‘Peace Rocket’ would be held again. But it was the elite-approved Trident and not a socialist ‘Peace Rocket‘ that misfired, so the response has been very different.

We’re told the malfunction of Britain’s ‘independent nuclear deterrent,’ and the failure of the government to mention it before Parliament voted on renewal, is no big deal. That the misfiring Trident is still worth spending billions of pounds of taxpayers money on at a time of austerity. And of course, there is absolutely no need for Parliament to debate the issue again…

Just imagine... if Russia had spent $5 billion in trying to bring about a regime change in Canada, with neo-Nazis providing the ‘cutting edge’ of anti-government protests. That torchlight processions by neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists -commemorating wartime SS divisions were held in the new ‘democratic’ Canada.

We could expect widespread condemnations and denunciations of Russia’s ‘links’ to the ’far right.' But it's happening in Ukraine. And guess what? The West’s ‘fascism is coming’ brigade are not the slightest bit interested.




Just imagine... if Russian troops were amassed on America's borders
 

mindlight

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Just imagine... if Russian troops were amassed on America's borders

All we have to do to highlight the enormous hypocrisy and double standards which are the hallmark of domestic and international politics is to switch the names around.
Actions taken by Western establishment approved countries and actors which are deemed to be totally uncontroversial-would be deemed to be ‘absolutely outrageous’ if done to them.

Here’s a few examples:

Just imagine… if a close Russian ally, whose forces were trained by Russia, was bombing the poorest country in the Middle East, with cluster bombs supplied by Moscow. Furthermore, in the country that was being attacked, a famine threatened the lives millions of people.

Well, the poorest country in the Middle East is Yemen, and it’s being bombed to smithereens by the one of the richest, Saudi Arabia, a close ally of Britain, using UK-made cluster bombs. And guess what, the West’s ‘something must be done brigade,' who expressed so much ’humanitarian’ concern over the fighting to regain Aleppo from Al-Qaeda/Al Nusra terrorists, are silent. How strange.

Just imagine… if a plane carrying members of a famous French military choir had crashed on Christmas Day, killing everyone on board. And that shortly afterwards, a leading Russian ’satirical magazine’ had mocked the tragedy, drawing cartoons of the choir singing to 'a new audience’ on the seabed and posted a caption saying that the only ‘bad news’ about the crash was that French President Francois Hollande had not been on board. There would, I’m sure, have been plenty of 'superior’ discussion in Western media about the 'moral depravity' and the 'dark soul’ of the Russian character. But the plane that crashed was carrying Russian singers. And it was the elite-approved Charlie Hebdo magazine which poked fun at the dead.

So there was no outcry in the West. And no accusations of ‘racism.'

Just imagine… if it had been NATO, and not the Warsaw Pact, which had been disbanded at the end of the old Cold War. And then Russia, breaking the promises it had made to the US President, had expanded the Warsaw Pact right up to the borders of the USA, deploying thousands of troops and dozens of tanks and other military hardware in Mexico and Canada. Would commentators in ‘respectable‘ establishment journals be calling this ‘American aggression‘? I think not.

Just imagine... if a senior political officer at the Russian Embassy in London had been caught on film talking about the ‘take down’ of a British Foreign Officer Minister deemed to be too critical of Russia and who was causing the country "a lot of problems." That there was a group called ‘Labour Friends of Russia’ and the political officer said the Embassy had a fund of more than £1m for them? We can be sure that the revelations would have led, at the very least, to diplomatic expulsions, the announcement of a full-scale government investigation, as well as a plethora of articles on the ‘outrageous’ interference by Russia in British political affairs. But the senior political officer caught on film was working for Israel, so a potential plot about the ’take down’ of a UK minister was deemed to be not a very important news story. By more or less the same people who would have been telling us it was a very important news story if it had involved Russia.

Just imagine… if Hillary Clinton and not Donald Trump had won the US Presidential election in November and Trump’s supporters had behaved in the way that Clinton’s have. That intelligence officials had tried to de-legitimize Clinton’s victory by claiming Saudi interference in the election, and produced as proof of this a document which drew attention to Saudi TV‘s alleged pro-Clinton stance.

Then, a week before the inauguration of President-elect Clinton was due to take place, the US media publicized a dossier compiled by an ex-intelligence officer from another country claiming Saudi Arabia was blackmailing Clinton, even though the dossier was unverified and contained glaring factual errors. The papers would I’m sure be full of commentary from ’liberal’ pundits raging about a ‘coup’ and anti-democratic attempts to overturn the election result. However, Trump won on November 8th, and not Clinton, so he’s fair game for 'Deep State' attacks. All in the name of 'democracy.'

Just imagine… if UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn had urged MPs to support a socialist ’Peace Rocket,' which would cost the British taxpayer at least £31 billion and possibly as much as £205 billion, over its lifetime. That Corbyn had praised the ‘Peace Rocket’ as being ’worth every penny’ and absolutely essential for Britain and for the peace of the world. Then, after Parliament had voted in favor, it came to light that the Peace Rocket had misfired on a test and that Corbyn had kept schtum about it. That four times he had been asked by the BBC's Andrew Marr if he had known about the misfire, and four times he had avoided answering the question.

We can be sure the calls for Corbyn to resign would have been deafening. That there would have been fearsome denunciations of the 'enormous waste' of taxpayers money on a 'socialist vanity project.' And that the vote on the ‘Peace Rocket’ would be held again. But it was the elite-approved Trident and not a socialist ‘Peace Rocket‘ that misfired, so the response has been very different.

We’re told the malfunction of Britain’s ‘independent nuclear deterrent,’ and the failure of the government to mention it before Parliament voted on renewal, is no big deal. That the misfiring Trident is still worth spending billions of pounds of taxpayers money on at a time of austerity. And of course, there is absolutely no need for Parliament to debate the issue again…

Just imagine... if Russia had spent $5 billion in trying to bring about a regime change in Canada, with neo-Nazis providing the ‘cutting edge’ of anti-government protests. That torchlight processions by neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists -commemorating wartime SS divisions were held in the new ‘democratic’ Canada.

We could expect widespread condemnations and denunciations of Russia’s ‘links’ to the ’far right.' But it's happening in Ukraine. And guess what? The West’s ‘fascism is coming’ brigade are not the slightest bit interested.




Just imagine... if Russian troops were amassed on America's borders

The Ukraine was a part of the old USSR and historically the old Russian empire also. Wars were fought and Russian blood spilt in the taking of Sevastopol and in its defence against the British and French in the Crimean war and then the Germans in World War 2. It has always been considered a part of Russia and it is only an accident of history by which Khrushchev transferred it to the Ukrainian region. The people there and the views they held were being marginalised by the Ukrainian government. They voted overwhelmingly against this government before Crimea seceded and afterwards in the referendum they confirmed their desire to be a part of Russia. Now it is clear that most of the Ukraine have no desire to be a part of Russia and that desire should be respected but I have no problem with Russia gaining the Crimea and especially if they are now to be considered allies in the fight against real enemies like radical Islamic groups and states.

Your analogy with the USA is false. A better analogy would be if Texas became a part of Mexico and then a part of it voted to come back into the USA. Would the rest of the world have grounds to object or would this be regarded as American aggression against Mexico.
 
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saulfactuspaul

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would this be regarded as American aggression against Mexico.

Thanks it was a good response, I get really sick of the ignorant Russophobia western society has, Your very well informed sadly some people still think the cold war never ended.
 
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mindlight

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Thanks it was a good response, I get really sick of the ignorant Russophobia western society has, Your very well informed sadly some people still think the cold war never ended.

Well I think under Trump all that is about to change. There were a number of disasters of American foreign policy under Obama and I am hoping that Trump will undo the damage now. It is better if we work with Russia rather than against it while making very clear what our red lines are e.g. NATO members in Eastern Europe need protecting.

1) Russia is a natural ally against radical Islam and we should be working with them on this.
2) In Syria supporting so called moderate groups against the regime has just perpetuated the civil war which has in turn cost hundreds of thousands of lives and made millions homeless. The real target and threat to the West in Syria is not Assad but rather Daesh(IS). We can end this war by targeting ISIS and ending support for the rebels against Assad.
3) With new pipelines, fracking and Iranian and Iraqi oil back online we have an opportunity to deal with Saudi Arabia. Its sponsoring of the mayhem in Yemen and in Syria has been a major source of instability in the region. Russian support would be great.
4) Sanctions on Russia have damaged the European economy as well as the Russian one and serve no purpose now.
5) Russia needs to understand very clearly that its hegemony over NATO members in Eastern Europe is history. These countries freedoms will be protected.
6) Friendship and trade and military cooperation with Russia is essential if the West is to maintain a balanced reaction to the rise of China. Trumps desire to hold China to account for territorial ambitions , failure to control their ally in North Korea , abusive trade practices etc works very well with a new friendship with the Russians.
7) Relations with Iran need reviewing and that is best done in coordination with the Russians. The imprisonment of pastors and sponsorship of wars in Yemen and rhetoric against Israel needs challenging.
 
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Paradoxum

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Thanks it was a good response, I get really sick of the ignorant Russophobia western society has, Your very well informed sadly some people still think the cold war never ended.

The Russian taking of Crimea wasn't as calm as presented in the alternative example. If Crimea had voted like Scotland on independence...okay, but that isn't what happened.

I was born after the cold war. I hoped it would join the EU. I'm not anti-Russian.
 
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Paradoxum

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Watch out Paradoxum is a Libdem as you can see under profile picture is written Liberty, Equality, Solidarity

Sorry for supporting liberty and equality?

What a joke EU lovers and anti russia haters are the worst when it comes to practicing what they preach. They are the most pompous smug people ever in existence i hope to god they don't migrate to Australia.

I'm not anti-Russian. I wanted the Russia to be European. I want Russian to be free and prosperous.
 
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saulfactuspaul

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Sorry for supporting liberty and equality?



I'm not anti-Russian. I wanted the Russia to be European. I want Russian to be free and prosperous.

Don't worry I will delete that post

Apologies for being rude
 
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