Just a question

[Tejada]

Hello, I am new to this site, so please excuse any hiccups on my part. I am not a Christian, although try my hardest to live by what are considored Christian values, but which are to me, good human values. I have a question........I have heard that Jesus would wish us to forgive seven times seventy and after having read into this and understand that in the Old Testement (Daniel?) seven times seventy in actual fact means forever.....this I understand. Does this forgiveness only become possible if the sinner has repented? Or do we forgive anyway.....and is our forgiveness an opportunity to take a moral high ground or because it will have a positive effect on not only our welbeing, but that of the sinner, and I suppose, all around us? Any answers gratefully received!

 

[quatona]

In my understanding, forgiveness benefits the forgiving person rather than the forgiven person. Thus, I don´t there are any requirements that depend on the forgiven person.
Personally, I would like to point out that abstaining from feeling wronged renders the entire forgiveness gag obsolete. But that´s just me, and I am not a Christian.

 

[BlessEwe]

Welcome to CF For me, my feelings on this would be in order to act this way and forgive, I need to be in line with Christ. My heart needs to be open and honest to receive the peace of Christ to forgive.

In recovery, forgiving does not mean what they did was right/wrong but in order for us to be free we need to let it turn to God and forgive. Holding on to anger and having a unforgiving heart turns into bitterness and basically drains us. And in time into Angry people. Letting the things we can not control over to God, and changing the things we can. Asking God for the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Veyrlian]

In my understanding, forgiveness benefits the forgiving person rather than the forgiven person. Thus, I don´t there are any requirements that depend on the forgiven person.
Personally, I would like to point out that abstaining from feeling wronged renders the entire forgiveness gag obsolete. But that´s just me, and I am not a Christian.

Very true. Forgiving someone who in your mind hasn't done anything wrong, is so effortless it can hardly be called a feat or even a task.

 

[Veyrlian]

Welcome to CF For me, my feelings on this would be in order to act this way and forgive, I need to be in line with Christ. My heart needs to be open and honest to receive the peace of Christ to forgive.

In recovery, forgiving does not mean what they did was right/wrong but in order for us to be free we need to let it turn to God and forgive. Holding on to anger and having a unforgiving heart turns into bitterness and basically drains us. And in time into Angry people. Letting the things we can not control over to God, and changing the things we can. Asking God for the wisdom to know the difference.

Would you agree, that one can achieve this same exhilarating feeling from forgiveness, without the God entity? I have found, that by just truly forgiving, one can just suddenly get rid of all the excess package of frustrations: pent anger, bitterness and pain. It's a revelation which results in a feeling of flamboyant freedom and contentment and this feeling is the kind you like to spread around too.

 

[fated]

Hello, I am new to this site, so please excuse any hiccups on my part. I am not a Christian, although try my hardest to live by what are considored Christian values, but which are to me, good human values. I have a question........I have heard that Jesus would wish us to forgive seven times seventy and after having read into this and understand that in the Old Testement (Daniel?) seven times seventy in actual fact means forever.....this I understand. Does this forgiveness only become possible if the sinner has repented? Or do we forgive anyway.....and is our forgiveness an opportunity to take a moral high ground or because it will have a positive effect on not only our welbeing, but that of the sinner, and I suppose, all around us? Any answers gratefully received!

You, like Christ, grant mercy, it is up to the offender to accept that mercy.

Holding on to vengeance is not good for you, and can actually put constraints on you, and not just spiritually, but in the 'practice' of life, you can find yourself controlled by fear or something as a result of mistreatment unforgiven.

 

[quatona]

You, like Christ, grant mercy, it is up to the offender to accept that mercy.

I always find it ambiguous when persons compare themselves to the god of the bible.
From the bible I personally get the message that we are not in the position to judge, and consequently "granting mercy" is a divine privilege, too.

 

[BlessEwe]

Would you agree, that one can achieve this same exhilarating feeling from forgiveness, without the God entity? I have found, that by just truly forgiving, one can just suddenly get rid of all the excess package of frustrations: pent anger, bitterness and pain. It's a revelation which results in a feeling of flamboyant freedom and contentment and this feeling is the kind you like to spread around too.

I would say that the conscious part of the brain it would be possible, we just tell ourselves we forgive.
Things that hurt deep into the spirit, doing things we don't even realize we are doing found in the subconscious ( survival ) part would be hard, if not impossible. This is a whole spiritual, physical, mental healing of the pain/suffering someone has cause us. God knows us more than we know ourselves ( subconscious self). Its a going from head to heart, meaning really indwelt into the inner being of us. If its not, it will keep coming back up into our life's one way or another. ( addiction, anger, depression) ect.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

In my understanding, forgiveness benefits the forgiving person rather than the forgiven person. Thus, I don´t there are any requirements that depend on the forgiven person.
Personally, I would like to point out that abstaining from feeling wronged renders the entire forgiveness gig obsolete. But that´s just me, and I am not a Christian.

Must have been quite a lot of people like you around the first century, first Church Christians. From Paul to Christians living in Rome:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[quatona]

Must have been quite a lot of people like you around the first century, first Church Christians. From Paul to Christians living in Rome:

If you are interested in me understanding what you are trying to communicate it would be a good idea to connect the dots for me. I´m clueless.

 

[Veyrlian]

I would say that the conscious part of the brain it would be possible, we just tell ourselves we forgive.
Things that hurt deep into the spirit, doing things we don't even realize we are doing found in the subconscious ( survival ) part would be hard, if not impossible. This is a whole spiritual, physical, mental healing of the pain/suffering someone has cause us. God knows us more than we know ourselves ( subconscious self). Its a going from head to heart, meaning really indwelt into the inner being of us. If its not, it will keep coming back up into our life's one way or another. ( addiction, anger, depression) ect.

Hmm. Although I agree that delving into the subconscious is hard, perhaps in some cases impossible, as one needs to be aware of the memories and the feelings to assess them, I think this problem is of a more marginal nature. I am not sure one needs to remember all the wrongs committed in order to forgive. Forgiveness is not a pedantic feeling, more of a gracious, generous kind.
Also, I am willing to accept that a belief in a God can facilitate the process of forgiveness, however I think it is just one method among many and not entirely reliable. Otherwise it should be evident that all religious people are more forgiving and less angry, depressed, addicted or internally frustrated, instead of the great variation in behaviour we see today.