Jumping Over Pews, Running The Aisles, Rolling, and Barking.

I go to admit I am not up on the animal sounds and the convulsing. I have seen some people bobbing like the jews do praying at the wailing wall. A shofar is the rams horn that the Jewish/Messianics use in their worship.... Blessings...Kim

catlover said:

I would imagine that would be a strange experience...I have witnessed some holy running/screaming. Very odd.




What's a shofar?


Curiousity!

Click to expand...

a shofar is a rams horn. It sounds like a trumpet.

Lol and i thought I had heard of all the silly things in the world, ahahaha, animal worship, oh please get people reenacting famous people next, i would love someone to think they are jimmy hendrix and do a sermon.

Sweet jesus baby +strum of the guitar+ ahaha

Worlds gone nuts.

Sounds more like demonic possession than worship to me.

I've been in services where laugher, running and physical exhibitions have gone on. Afterwards I was privy to testimony from folks who experienced these manifestations and most attributed it to God filling them with unending Joy (laughter), healing (running) and God shaking things out of lives (shaking, jerking). I have experienced being prayed for where my strength seemed to have left me or I couldn't prevent myself from falling under the anointing.

It's tough to look at it from the outsider's view (one who has never experienced these things) but once it's happened to you, it is tough denying God's work in your personal life. My opinion is this, do not judge what you see but pray that God would work in your life and pray for his work in the lives of others. Allow God to reveal in your heart what he is doing and what his manifestations are. In some cases it may very well go against the flow of the Holy Spirit and I have heard of instances where people faked it just to fit in with everyone else. There will always be someone trying to fake their way into religion rather than experiencing God for who and what He is.

my two cents

catlover said:

Some Christians consider running aisles, and barking like a dog to be a form of worship.

Do you believe people barking like dogs, rolling, running, and jumping are forms of worship?

Click to expand...

Having attended a church like this for approximately a year (sometimes every other weekend), I can say with great certainly in my own mind that this is indeed NOT worship of any kind, not in any way.

It is, at best, a complete delusion, and at worst, the work of demonic possession of unbelievers. I am more likely to believe that it is the former, although it could be both.

Many studies have been done, and I just saw one on a TV program that was designed to study this phenomenon. The study found that people's brains entered into, at the least, a hyper-relaxed state. This relaxed state helps to reduce and inhibit the use of logic/reason. It does not eliminate it, however, because most people would refuse, at this point in their consciousness, to attempt murder, strip naked, or cause themselves self-injury.

They would, however, be willing to do something that they believe in firmly, such as glossolalia ('speaking in tongues') and exorcism (being on the receiving end).

This relaxed state can be achieved best by using repetitive music, repeated suggestion, and mass-hysteria.

It's actually a pretty simple formula. You take people who desire
for something to happen, believe that it can and does happen, add in elements of pre-hypnotic procedures (repetitive music, repeated suggestion), and mix in the effects of group-think, and you've got your basic rolling, barking, and 'slain in the spirit' service, just add water. Kidding, of course, about the water; forgive the slight.

Seriously though, it only takes one person who starts to do something, and then another, and then another, and then those who were more resistant (i.e., shy/reserved) will slowly begin, since they can have confidence in the midst of the turmoil that they are not the spotlight. However, sometimes these people can quickly become the spotlight, especially if they seem to exhibit demonic possession. At this point, once the individual is fully involved, it is highly unlikely that they will break the cycle; it would require a complete reversal of their current conscious state.


The practice of glossolalia, referred to by the biblical gift of 'speaking in tongues,' is the practice of speaking in an unknown language. It is referred to by this complicated G-word because it must be differentiated from the gift that appears at Pentecost in Acts 2, where the believers speak in known, earthly languages in order to propagate the gospel.

The gift of speaking in tongues (languages) found in Acts 2 is generally quite easy to verify; you simply find a speaker of the language to determine if it is being spoken. Because this gift can be easily and wholly verified through empirical means, there is virtually NO reliable situation since the days of the apostles when we can say such a gift was practiced. Although many have believed fully in the gift, and really thought they could do it, all attempts have been failures thus far.

However, the supposed movement of the Holy Spirit through people during worship to cause erratic behavior, including barking, glossolalia, twitching, falling, etc., is impossible to verify. It is impossible to prove that it isn't from the Holy Spirit of God, because proving a negative in this case is simply an impossibility. However, trying to prove that it is from the Holy Spirit is almost as difficult, but such attempts can be evaluated.

When evaluated, all of these supposed manifestations of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our wonderful Lord and God, reveal nothing supernatural in the least bit; they are entirely natural movements/sounds. The twitching, barking, howling, shouting, rolling, etc., are easily repeatable by those who neither believe in such things, and who don't even believe in the existence of a god.

However, one area specifically is often touted as proof of the Spirit's work -- being 'slain in the Spirit.' This ambiguous phrase does not refer to actual death, but refers to a sort of temporary spiritual 'knocking down,' in order for God to do some special work on the individual, or for the individual to experience a vision or word of prophecy, or for the individual to be exorcised.

Being slain in the Spirit has taken many varying forms and degrees, from the standard preacher touching a person and the individual falling prostrate on their back, to the strange and even comical behavior of some 'super preachers' who rock people in their seats by supposedly throwing the Holy Spirit out into the crowd like a baseball.

Aside from the obvious sac-religious nature of some of these manifestations, the claims have been believed and practiced by various churches throughout the world, from big to small.

The studies done have shown a lot of different results, but, as expected, none of our studies can prove any supernatural work is going on. We can prove, however, that most of these individuals are indeed not unconscious at all, or even semi-unconscious. Though nearly all of them are in a hyper-relaxed state that borders on hypnotism, virtually none studied are completely unconscious.

Many who come out of these movements, generally those who leave churches bearing the Pentecostal name, have stories to tell. Their stories can be read on forums specifically designed for ex-Pentecostals and their families/friends. I was a member of one of these forums for a short time, working through some issues I had with my then fiance's parents (who are now my in-laws). I heard a lot of incredible stories, things that I at first didn't want to believe.

These stories include:

1) People who purposefully faked their way through glossolalia (tongues), slayings in the spirit, prophetic words, etc., all in attempts to look better to everyone.

2) People who knew everything was false but did them because they were pressured by parents/family/friends. These individuals were fully believed to be genuine until they revealed themselves.

3) People who were told that they weren't saved unless they 'spoke in tongues' (which was defined as glossolalia). Some were even pressed to the point where they were demanded to speak in tongues. Others would tell them to say some random syllables, and make them repeat until it 'worked.' This was done in front of the church.

4) One church locked its doors and prevented anyone from leaving until all 'repented and experienced the Spirit's moving.'

It goes on, and certainly there are exceptions that ought not to be considered the standard, but 1-3 were pretty common and regular.

Here are some of the few things I experienced in my time there, with my relationship with my now in-laws:

1) I was told in various ways and with various words that I was a bad Christian, or not even a Christian at all. It was hinted many times that I would suffer punishment for not believing in God's 'prophets' (those self-declared in the church I attended), and this punishment was indicated to be here on this earth, and imminent.

2) I was told that I would be judged more harshly by God for not believing in his miracles and works.

3) Any attempts to verify claims, regardless of how innocently and non-judgmentally I approached it, were met with opposition; the opposition increased the more I tried to get any information I could.

4) Several prophecies were made about various peoples and the church, none of which came true (all of those that I heard in fact specifically did NOT come true).

5) Prophecies were made about me, one of which was a warning that if I didn't attend a deliverance/spiritual healing course held by my fiance's parents, my marriage was guaranteed to fail and end in divorce and misery.

6) When it became clear that I wasn't a 'holy roller' like the rest of the church, I was treated with a certain benign neglect; if I asked questions of anyone about anything, they would brush me off. When I approached the pastor to ask him an uncontroversial question about Christ, he gave an unrelated answer and removed himself from my company. When I approached the church's official 'dream interpreter' and genuinely wanted to see if my dream had a meaning, she, peering over my shoulder and looking entirely uninterested in me, gave me a quick, pat answer and then ignored me, preferring her more Pentecostal friends.

7) When the church was clearly experiencing a split among the Pentecostal/charismatic group versus the traditional/less-Pentecostal group, I was constantly barraged by the Pentecostal/charismatic group to side with them and defend their caused.

8) After numerous people left the church, one after another being displeased with the goings-on there, I finally, when the church had dwindled to less than half its original size, decided to talk to my at-the-time girlfriend about finding a better church. She was more than willingly, but feared what her parents would do to her if she left. Her fears were justified; after she finally gathered up the courage to leave, she was verbally assaulted almost daily, being told day after day how she is slipping into wickedness and godlessness, how she is being perverted from the truth by demonic possession and the teachings of Satan. Although she was faithfully and otherwise joyfully attending a local Baptist church close to home, she was treated as if she had completely abandoned the faith. She was constantly told that she was being prayed for, that she would come back to the 'the truth,' as if she had left it.

Even though her new church home was much closer to where she lived, had many more people that she got to know, and she was more involved there than she had been at the Pentecostal church, her parents treated her as if she had abandoned the faith altogether. Accusations that her new church was a 'dead church' quickly surfaced, as well as did accusations that I was leading her away from the truth because I was demoniacally possessed.

9) My fiance's (now wife's) stuff was routinely destroyed by fire, accusations of 'cursings and demonic possession' being used as the reason for their destruction. When my brother and law and his wife came over one time, they were led outside in the cold of winter, secretly without my or my fiance's knowledge, in order to burn old clothing that was part of a bad memory that my brother's wife had. This was in order to destroy the curse that was on the clothing (or other articles.

--------------

This was certainly unnecessarily long and slightly veered from the original topic at points, but I think it's important that people know the common experiences of many who are/were involved with these kinds of churches. Behind what you see on the surface is often a far more sinister world.

One thing to remember, the Spirit does not minister to each person equally. There is a group of believers, Christians, who according to scripture:

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." -Mk. 16:18

These believers actually handle snakes and drink stricnine in the church services. They do this because the scriptures say they can do them.

I. Group Profile

1. Name: Snake Handlers
2. Founder: Although other people prominently figure into the history of this religious movement George Went Hensley is commonly considered the "[father] of contemporary serpent handling" (Burton 1993, 7).
   
3. Date of Birth: Born around 1880 [No specific date exists]-died July 25, 1955 [from a snake bite] (Kimborough 1995, 133).
4. Birth Place: Hills of Tennessee (Kimborough 1995, 133).
5. Year Founded: No exact date exists; Hensley is thought to have taken up the practice in 1908. (Burton 1993, 34).

Think on that one.

God Bless

Till all are one.

well barking is rediculous (unless you happen to bring your dog to church with you)

I don't see a problem with raising your hands, saying Amen out loud, jumping up and down, or dancing. Even running around I guess can be acceptable in some churches.

But come on people...farm animal noises???

Like what was said before. Many pastors (especially the ones on TV) are playing with emotions to get people all excited so they will give money.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good message filled with Charisma. But I HATE it when these fake preachers say that the more you give to "the church" (them), the more healthy you will be and that God will give you back the money 10 fold later on.

Tithing isn't about hoping to get more money in the future or a way to "buy" God's healing or forgiveness.

And going to church isn't about getting a "spritual high". It's about giving God the Glory and praising Him, not thinking only about yourself and the "spiritual experience" you got at church.

Nothing wrong with getting excited for God, but just be carefull and use discernment. There are so many wolves in sheeps clothing out there my friends.

May God be with you all in everything you do.

Will

I have appreciated the testimonies of people on all sides of this issue. Manifestations of this kind have taken place in various places in Christian history. In some cases, time has revealed its practitioners to be charlatans and cultists, in other cases, genuine workers of miracles and good fruit.

It cannot be classified as worship. It can be classified as a response to one of three things:
group hysteria
genuine demonic manifestation
genuine Holy Spirit manifestation

I tend to think that this list goes in order of prevalence: IOW, usually its group hypnosis, followed by demonic manifestation, to get the eyes of those witnessing off of Christ and on the sign. Think in this case of the girl who followed Paul, prophesying. Paul showed a true miracle by calmly casting out the demon spirit.

I have been, in my days as a Charismatic, to Pensecola and to Toronto. I thought most of what I saw at Toronto was fleshly and psychologically driven.

That being said, if someone who is reading this recalls a time when God touched them through something like this, praise God. He did some pretty goofy stuff in the Old and New Testament. But, please be careful not to seek signs. Make worship of Him in quiet dignity, and on occasion, with great jubilation, the center of your life. Worship of God is NOT charismatic signs. Charismatic signs, when genuine, are a sign of God's sovereign response to your worship of Him, but moreover, a need that He sees and deals with in His way.

Remember, you don't know your needs, He does. Simply pray "give us this day our daily bread' and trust Him.

I have laid my own hands on someone, prayed, and watched them recover instantly, with medical verification. I have also laid hands on a dear loved one, and they simply died in my hands.
Bless the Lord in His soverignty.
Iakovos

is referred to as "mesmerization", check the Wiki under "Mesmer".
Also at work is the "Pavlovian Response" (Pavlov's dogs).
It is all abut "set & setting", the combintion of personal & group expectations and pressure in a setting with props & prompts to invoke emotional epiphanies.
Show Time!

I have never personally seen the holy laughter stuff, but I watched the youtube video of it prayerfully and it seems to me that there are some mislead seeking people there and some who are deliberately misleading them and some who do not realize they are misleading others.
As was stated previously, our Lord is orderly. That does not mean there is no room for joy and spontanaity, but barking like a dog is only fitting for a dog to do.
I am currently reading a book called The Latent Powers of the Soul by Watchman Nee and he talks about how our soul does have great powers that were hidden at the time of Adam's fall. We are meant to rely on the Lord and on His power, but Satan wants us to use the power of our own souls - that is why the Bible speaks of trading in souls in the end times. Anyway, I am concerned that the people drawn in by works of power and outward things may be those who can be easily mislead by things that are of Satan and not of the Lord.
We always have to be watchful and seeking Christ Himself.

See I just feel like grabbing a rubber ball and a few treats and going here boy/girl.

Mass hysteria and hypnosis.

DeaconDean said:

One thing to remember, the Spirit does not minister to each person equally. There is a group of believers, Christians, who according to scripture:

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." -Mk. 16:18

These believers actually handle snakes and drink stricnine in the church services. They do this because the scriptures say they can do them.

I. Group Profile

1. Name: Snake Handlers
2. Founder: Although other people prominently figure into the history of this religious movement George Went Hensley is commonly considered the "[father] of contemporary serpent handling" (Burton 1993, 7).
   
3. Date of Birth: Born around 1880 [No specific date exists]-died July 25, 1955 [from a snake bite] (Kimborough 1995, 133).
4. Birth Place: Hills of Tennessee (Kimborough 1995, 133).
5. Year Founded: No exact date exists; Hensley is thought to have taken up the practice in 1908. (Burton 1993, 34).

Think on that one.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

yea, its rediculous people take that scripture and misinterpret it so bad to think they are suppost to be snake handlers. Kind of like the old Jewish priests who wore phylactery's on their heads.

catlover said:

Some Christians consider running aisles, and barking like a dog to be a form of worship.

Do you believe people barking like dogs, rolling, running, and jumping are forms of worship?

Click to expand...

I have been attending a Pentecostal church for the last 3 years and the only thing I have witnessed is clapping, shouting, and speaking in tongues. I have seen some strange “slain in the spirit” stuff in Benny Hinn Videos. Even if people are barking like dogs in a some churches, is there anything wrong with that? My Philosophy is that every Christian should have the freedom to worship God in any fashion they wish.

Pentecostals do crazier things in worship and some do put too much emphasis on speaking in tongues. There are more abuses among some Pentecostal TV pastors who do seemed to be more concerned with money than spiritual wealth. But Pentecostals seem to have a real zeal and passion for God. I use to attend a Baptist and Anabaptist churches but I found them to be solemn and lacking passion for God.

I was at a bible study recently and during prayer time some people were shouting in tongues, some were singing softly, others were praying out loud, and I was playing my guitar softly. Basiclly everyone was doing what was comfortable for them during worship time. This is the way it should be. Denominations are divided over theology but we should be permissive and allow interdenominational worship in whatever manner each individual chooses. The right way of worship for me may not be the right way for you.
God Bless





"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control." (Galatians 5:22)

ArcticFox said:

Many studies have been done, and I just saw one on a TV program that was designed to study this phenomenon. The study found that people's brains entered into, at the least, a hyper-relaxed state. This relaxed state helps to reduce and inhibit the use of logic/reason. It does not eliminate it, however, because most people would refuse, at this point in their consciousness, to attempt murder, strip naked, or cause themselves self-injury.

Click to expand...

if you don't mind me asking, were these unbiased studies? Sometimes people/groups/media will conduct studies for the sole purpose of proving something false and also twisting results to fit the end conclusion they had in mind before going into the study.

Who are the orginators of these studies you have read?

SilentTraveler said:

if you don't mind me asking, were these unbiased studies? Sometimes people/groups/media will conduct studies for the sole purpose of proving something false and also twisting results to fit the end conclusion they had in mind before going into the study.

Who are the orginators of these studies you have read?

Click to expand...

I know HBO isn't the best Christian resource. But they showed a lot of things that basically proves Benny Hinn is a heretic and money hungry.

No one can promise that God will heal them. God doesn't promise to heal us of anything physical on Earth. Now I believe that He can though.

But I don't think it should cost $10k+ given to a televangalist.

I can't stand those prosperity preachers either, God doesn't want everyone to be rich, its not Biblical, or logical.

DeaconDean said:

One thing to remember, the Spirit does not minister to each person equally. There is a group of believers, Christians, who according to scripture:

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." -Mk. 16:18

These believers actually handle snakes and drink stricnine in the church services. They do this because the scriptures say they can do them.

I. Group Profile

1. Name: Snake Handlers
2. Founder: Although other people prominently figure into the history of this religious movement George Went Hensley is commonly considered the "[father] of contemporary serpent handling" (Burton 1993, 7).
3. Date of Birth: Born around 1880 [No specific date exists]-died July 25, 1955 [from a snake bite] (Kimborough 1995, 133).
4. Birth Place: Hills of Tennessee (Kimborough 1995, 133).
5. Year Founded: No exact date exists; Hensley is thought to have taken up the practice in 1908. (Burton 1993, 34).

Think on that one.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Click to expand...

Although I believe in freedom of worship in whatever form suits the individual I would like to make 2 points.
1. In relation to handling snakes and drinking poison. Mk. 16:18 Any form of worship that puts individuals at harm should not be allowed. Mk16:18 is also misinterpreted. This scripture means that if by accident the apostles were bitten by a snake or given poison they would be immune.
2. Any form of worship that promotes sin should also be prohibited. The same would be true of deceptions like false healings and false prophecy. Behavior like rolling in the aisles seems harmless during the worship part of a service.

Seek

SilentTraveler said:

I've been in services where laugher, running and physical exhibitions have gone on. Afterwards I was privy to testimony from folks who experienced these manifestations and most attributed it to God filling them with unending Joy (laughter), healing (running) and God shaking things out of lives (shaking, jerking). I have experienced being prayed for where my strength seemed to have left me or I couldn't prevent myself from falling under the anointing.

It's tough to look at it from the outsider's view (one who has never experienced these things) but once it's happened to you, it is tough denying God's work in your personal life. My opinion is this, do not judge what you see but pray that God would work in your life and pray for his work in the lives of others. Allow God to reveal in your heart what he is doing and what his manifestations are. In some cases it may very well go against the flow of the Holy Spirit and I have heard of instances where people faked it just to fit in with everyone else. There will always be someone trying to fake their way into religion rather than experiencing God for who and what He is.

my two cents

Click to expand...

i have witnessed these things, all that you have mentioned including losing strength and falling to the floor, with the help of someone behind me of course, but did you notice the preacher puching you to go down, or the person holding your back kind of pulling you back. And did you really lose strength or realise you had to do it.


The things you have mentioned sounds like a church i used to attend, i was once that person standing at the alter with the preacher pressing on my head, i noticed others were falling i knew i was supposed to....and i did, but only out of the embarrasment of if i didnt. And then once lieing down i open my eyes slowly to see if others have gotten up yet. i wasnt sure if i should stand and go to my seat, or just lie there and pretend to be passed out.

I have witnessed the holy laughter in church, yet i have also noticed it at home, i can look at my wife and start laughing, she will look right back at me and start laughing also, before you know it my 11 year old and 5 year old are laughing, is this also The annointing of the spirit.

1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,

HisKid1973 said:

The man barely touuched me with the annointing oil and my body was like jello. I was flat on the floor with know one around except the pastor praying for me.. I was gloriously set free that night and have been porn free for 5 years.

I said all this to say not to limit God to doing this or that. Just be open to let God move the way he wants..
Blessings In Christ..Kim

Click to expand...