Croooz said:
Yes but what do I have to believe in order that I know I am not being deceived? So if I do not align with the teachings of the reformed then I am being deceived? If I do not agree with all of them or just part? My point in this is that at what point is the deception? While I do not agree with Arminian beliefs how much of what Calvinists believe is the truth? Is it possible that there are some things which reformers have gotten right and other things which they are completely wrong or slightly skewed? I know there is but one Truth but you are blantantly saying the reformers and specifically calvinists have been enlightened to it and no others...
Ah, yes. I suppose I should be a tad more definitive. Sorry.
The primary topic I am talking about is that of Soteriology. That is, the nature of salvation. That tends to be the biggest point of contention between Arminians and Calvinists. Between the Church (Roman and Orthodox) and the Reformers, I'd say that the biggest contention is the doctrine of
Sola Scriptura. In
Sola Scriptura, if it is true, you can wholly defeat the positions of the Roman and Orthodox Churches.
The Scriptures are quite clear that believing unto Christ assures our salvation. Where Calvinists and Arminians differ is on the nature and dynamics of that transaction. Both sides are surely Christ-centered and believe according to the Word that Christ is the sole sufficient sacrifice for sin, and the only way to the Father. That
alone is the necessary condition for salvation. For that to happen, grace must first be bestowed upon the sinner, though. Here is where Arminians and Calvinists start to differ again.
Of course the Reformers had faults. Did they get things wrong? All the time! But those legacies do not survive as sound doctrine. It is the Scriptural truths that they taught that we continue to uphold, not the errors of their ways. All men have a corrupted nature. This corrupted nature--especially when you consider that the Holy Spirit is not actively inspiring new Scriptures--lends to the creation of unsound arguments. These are defeated by the Word, though. Only those truths which conform to the Truth are incorporated into doctrine. And it should be mentioned
again that these truths were not the original discovery of the Refomers. No. They were the views of the apostles and the early church fathers themselves! The Reformers simply tore away the strangling grasp that Rome had on the interpretation of the Word. They said that Rome
is fallible because it is an institution of
men. They acknowledged that all the ways of men are wayward; therefore, they concluded that an institution of man is froward, and that only the infallible Scriptures should be sought for measure of truth.
Croooz said:
There is one Truth and the group who has it all correct are Calvinists or merely those who are aligned with the scriptures which would then believe TULIP making them....calvinists.
The latter part of this statement is correct. There is one Truth, and it is those that are referred to as
Calvinists* that have been entrusted with it. Just to reiterate again, though I know I have beaten this horse quite dead, it is not Calvin's doctrine, but the doctrine of the Word. He did nothing but assess the doctrine from the Scriptures through sound exegesis. The original inspiration was the Holy Spirit's. Calvin simply wrote a magnificent piece about this inspiration. He did not reveal anything new or arcane, but put to pen an analysis and comprehensive commentary on the nature of the doctrine of the Word. There are many historical reasons why the doctrine bears his name, which we won't get into here, but be sure to take away this: Calvinism is not a theology formed of one man, it is derived solely from Scripture.
* - I'll define a Calvinist as someone who upholds the five solas:
Sola Scriptura
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solo Christo (Solus Christus)
Soli Deo Gloria
And the five points of Calvinism:
