John Crowder no longer supported?

[TheMainException]

Has anyone heard about this or even about john crowder? i've been 'following' this guy for a while now...listening to his youtube videos and I've been to one of his conferences. He was saved from a drug addiction (he did anything he could get his hands on really) through being what he might call "high on the holy spirit." At first, people thought this was marvelous, now they are no longer supporting him, saying that this is wrong. It's as if somebody snuck in the back door and slipped everyone a couple wads of cash to get them to reject him. I've been wondering for a long time if this wasn't mere sensationalism or suggestive techniques. But it does seem to be from the holy spirit...at the same time, I know a lot of people flip lids over his use of drug language to talk about God. Growing up in the culture I've grown up in, I think this is almost necessary to get kids to understand that 'there is no high like the most high' and get them at least on the road to learning about God and knowing him as savior and King. I just wanted some feedback though. If you've heard about him, give me some feedback on what you think. He's been trying to break religious spirits and now people are upset...even those who didn't originally get considered as having religious spirits.

 

[stormdancer0]

I haven't heard, but I think it's stupid.

Anyone who's ever felt the touch of the Holy Spirit knows that "high" doesn't even begin to say it. But if that's the culture you've lived in most of your life, receiving salvation/the Holy Spirit does not erase all signs of that culture.

I love it when the Spirit moves in my heart. I've never been "high," But I would probably put a strong move of the Spirit in that category.

I love the David Crowder band.

 

[byhisstripes]

Doesn't Jesus say to be all things to all people? He also spoke to the differant kinds of people in the way they would understand I think to us it would be called speaking in medaphore. Take his parables I think if Im thinking correctly these are good examples of how he taught the diverse crowds.
For instance if I wanted to go to the getto and talk about Jesus Im not going to use Christianese terms Im going to relate it in a way they would understand. I hope what Im trying to say is making sence as Im not good at explaining things I mean very well.

 

[byhisstripes]

And how are we to judge his intent should how he delivers the message be between him and God? Who knows maybe God told him the words to say, if peoples lives are being changed than that would seem to be the case to me. There is a differance between judgement and decernment I know that so Im going to stop know.

 

[TheMainException]

David Crowder band is good yea...but to be sure, John Crowder has no relation with David Crowder.

St0rmdancer: What's stupid? The high or the not being supported anymore? I've been 'high' in the holy spirit before...and it's incredible. I don't know what else to call it...I feel all light and numb in my head and relaxed to the point where I can barely hold my head up. I think it might have felt more like being drunk that anything, but it was darn amazing...and it didn't occur at one of his conferences, but instead while I was praying for someone in my church in Germany. God told me to go and pray for this girl I didn't know. I did and afterwards, I was wrecked. It was kinda like my "reward" for following his will.

Byhisstripes, I like what you're saying...what you said sounds quite true to me.

 

[byhisstripes]

So which one are we talking about the Christian one or what Im really confused ....thanks Sorry Im really slow at this sort of stuff, confused easily LOL

 

[stormdancer0]

David Crowder band is good yea...but to be sure, John Crowder has no relation with David Crowder.

Sorry, my bad. I was thinking David Crowder. OK, stupid question - who's John crowder?

St0rmdancer: What's stupid? The high or the not being supported anymore? I think the problem with the phrase "high on the Holy Spirit" is stupid. What's wrong with that statement?
I've been 'high' in the holy spirit before...and it's incredible. I don't know what else to call it...I feel all light and numb in my head and relaxed to the point where I can barely hold my head up. I think it might have felt more like being drunk that anything, but it was darn amazing...and it didn't occur at one of his conferences, but instead while I was praying for someone in my church in Germany. God told me to go and pray for this girl I didn't know. I did and afterwards, I was wrecked. It was kinda like my "reward" for following his will.

What a perfect description!! Wrecked - I've heard it put this way: God has completely ruined me for this world. Nothing this world has will ever be good enough, because I've been touched by Him. But I like "wrecked."

That's what I get for answering a post and talking on the phone at the same time - messed up both conversations!!

(We now return you to your regularly scheduled show. . er, post.)

 

[stormdancer0]

Ok, on the other hand, this, in my opinion, is very disturbing:

http://imablogger.net/2008/08/19/john-crowder-and-benjamin-dunn-false-doctrine/

Sorry, charismatic or not, it makes my spirit very VERY uneasy.

 

[TheMainException]

Ok, on the other hand, this, in my opinion, is very disturbing:

http://imablogger.net/2008/08/19/john-crowder-and-benjamin-dunn-false-doctrine/

Sorry, charismatic or not, it makes my spirit very VERY uneasy.

This is typical for them. And what makes your spirit uneasy about that? At what things did you go "uh...I don't really think so"? And it's like a regular party...without any alcohol from the world. Through them people are healed, saved, and see the glory of the Lord through signs, wonders, miracles (no different than when jesus walked the earth healing people, changing water into wine, multiplying food and prophesying. No different than when the apostles walked the earth, speaking in tongues, producing signs and wonders, healing, and saving people).

If God can't rival and overcome the pleasures on earth...then what's the point? Sure, happiness after death...but isn't the Kingdom of God within us as heirs to the throne and the holy spirit living in us? So then we should be partying with the king and Lord as returned prodigal sons and daughters. Does this make sense or do you feel as though I should get a good talking to?

byhisstripes: DAVID crowder is in a band. JOHN crowder is a speaker.


It's not a stupid question to ask who someone is...we can't know everyone. Searching for him on google or youtube will bring up quite a few sources if you want to check that out. And many people will say he has flase doctrine and is one of the end times people prophesied about in the bible. Their ideas are unfounded...if he didn't include the drug language and did what he did, people would be quite happy...but there are a lot of people out there who see manifestations of the holy spirit and call it demon possession. I have friends who can see into the spiritual realm and they don't see demons in or on those people...besides, afterwards, those "possessed" people go on to continue in greater love of christ. How can they then also have been possessed at a point they call a changing point in life?

Finally, why is "high" any different from "wrecked"? One deals with drugs and the other alcohol...seems to reflect the american culture actually...alcohol's okay and drugs aren't sorta deal. But really, why are those two not both okay? Why is one okay and one not? I'm really interested in what makes certain things okay and what makes them not okay. (I'm a psychology major, that may be why I ask these sorts of questions that interest me).

 

[stormdancer0]

I guess the whole "drinking at the breast of God" and colostrum dripping from the walls really makes me cringe. The "drug" language doesn't bother me too much. That's part of their life - something that would have to be changed slowly. But you can't tell me that any of those people still breastfeed.

Besides, didn't Paul talk about God not being the author of confusion, and that worship should be orderly? That looked awfully confused and disorderly to me.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess.

 

[Alex-C-L]

Hi. I have both of his books and have watched his you tube antics and that of his followers. Although he speaks so much sense[ when hes not going yoing yoing yoing etc] I am very skeptical about the spiritual root. I have prayed into this but have had nothing conclusive. My gut feeling is that its is not from God, but Im not judging him. At this point I am very uneasy from reading his books and videos. Have you watched his video on Dowies bones and inpartation? It all sounds fine until he starts speaking strange[ not tongues but slightly retarded if I can use that word] its almost as if the spirit at work in him is mocking its own message at the end. Im someone who has had spiritual encounters and supernatural stuff etc so I am by no means close minded but very wary of his spiritual source. Dont care too much for the cheap and juvenile drug analogies either, although thats just personal prefernce I guess

 

[Alex-C-L]

Have you seen the videos of his followers huffing the empty cross of Jesus to get high and taking jolly jelly communion? Its one thing to kill the religious spirit but another to embrace a mocking spirit.If Im wrong Ill be the first to apolergise but it just does not sit well with me.

 

[TheMainException]

Have you seen the videos of his followers huffing the empty cross of Jesus to get high and taking jolly jelly communion? Its one thing to kill the religious spirit but another to embrace a mocking spirit.If Im wrong Ill be the first to apolergise but it just does not sit well with me.

This is why I'm posting this message...it makes people uneasy. I want to know why. I want to see what people who are true christians as well as mostly pentacostal/charismatic think.

In some of the church groups I attend, we have communion with chips and salsa sometimes. I don't think that it has anything to do with WHAT you're having communion with, but the fact that, Jesus body and blood were broken and poured out for us...and if we can remember that using jolly jelly beans...so be it.

Do you remember in the bible where Paul's shadow was enough to heal people? (I think it was Paul, either that or Peter). Holiness rubs off and stays on some things. Bones can still hold the glory of God on them for years, even centuries. The Glory of God is powerful stuff and not to be taken lightly...John Crowder does go over the edge I think...but he's got good (seemingly) intentions.

Stormdancer: I don't know about worship being orderly. But I can bet money (not that it would matter by that time) that worship in heaven isn't always "orderly." It won't be like we'll care anyway. People are praising God. Isn't that awesome? People being saved...having fun...not drinking, doing drugs, smoking, living empty, sinful lives anymore...is that not from God? What I would love to do is get a whole bunch of people together who have never heard of John Crowder before, or never heard him speak who also happen to be gifted in the area of being able to see angels, feel the spiritual energy of a room (I have a friend that can walk into a room and know whether their is a good majority of evil or good there). I'd take these people to one of John's conferences and have them tell me what they saw and felt afterwards. It would be a very interesting "experiment" per se.

also, Alex...I've seen quite a few of his videos and Jesus Trip vids, so yea...I've seen most of that one.

 

[lilmissmontana]

Hi

I've been reading this thread with interest. About a bazillion thoughts came as I read ... The first thing that sticks out to me is the phrase 'I've been following him' ... Jesus says to follow Him.

Yes, we're to meet people where they are, I believe ... but that obviously encompasses a lot. If we want to lead them to the path of Jesus then we can't start them out on another path. It has to be straight up Jesus. I think 'meeting them where they are' to me means to be non-judgemental and put yourself in their shoes ... remember the Lord actually met you both there ... I can't in my wildest imagination picture myself talking drug talk to plant seeds ... but I can picture myself talking to a drug user or pusher or whatever about Jesus ...

I want to say something about youtube ... as is the media and all the ways of the world ... youtube is not immune to misrepresentative videos ... as with cell phones that take pictures and other means of capturing time ... many reputations are ruined by theft of privacy and the right to personal freedom from someone taking a picture out of context and selling it ot any of the other number of ways some have figured out to profit ... one never has any idea how many of the videos have been altered ... but it comes more down to this ... if you want the Truth read your bible and study it ... all the other stuff is tainted ... only the bible is not ...

I believe in an order to worship that is spontaneous if that makes sense ... but the fact is there is order in all things of the Lord ...

John Crowder ... never heard of him ... is he real? I would say if you can back up everything he says and does as a teacher with scripture, then he's real ...

I've actually been 'high' on the Holy Spirit ... the one time I remember in particular lasted about three weeks ... everyone that came near me kept saying, pull her down to earth ... earth to marsha ... etc. it was the most glorious three weeks ... revelation after revelation after revelation ... I felt like a sponge just soaking it up ... there've been a numer of other times but none as intense as that time ... Jesus came in a dream and gave me a key ... the whole thing started because I'd been intensely studying and praying for several months ... one day I was cleaning out my closet and the thought occurred to me to ask the Lord how I was doing in my walk ... He spent three weeks telling me ... all I can say there is no feeling in this world like that ... only in the Spirit ...

the Lord will show you, tell you, teach you and unravel the mysteries to you if you seek HIM ... because He is where the Truth is ...

jmo
God bless

 

[stormdancer0]

Stormdancer: I don't know about worship being orderly. But I can bet money (not that it would matter by that time) that worship in heaven isn't always "orderly."

I bet it IS always orderly. But perhaps our definitions are different. Orderly to me doesn't mean scripted, quiet, pre-determined. It means that there is a purpose (God's purpose) to everything going on. We have been known to get "rowdy" in worship, but it's never out of control. That video looked TOTALLY out of control.

What I would love to do is get a whole bunch of people together who have never heard of John Crowder before, or never heard him speak who also happen to be gifted in the area of being able to see angels, feel the spiritual energy of a room (I have a friend that can walk into a room and know whether their is a good majority of evil or good there). I'd take these people to one of John's conferences and have them tell me what they saw and felt afterwards. It would be a very interesting "experiment" per se.

I have that gift, though it's not extremely strong. My son, who's 19, has that gift very strongly. The video made me uncomfortable, and I did not see God in it. I saw a bunch of teenagers being whipped up into a frenzy, and using God as an excuse. My son did not sense anything evil about it, but didn't sense God, either.

From Alex:

Have you seen the videos of his followers huffing the empty cross of Jesus to get high and taking jolly jelly communion? Its one thing to kill the religious spirit but another to embrace a mocking spirit.If Im wrong Ill be the first to apologizer but it just does not sit well with me.

I have to agree with this. "Huffing" the cross and the jolly jelly communion are making a mockery of the sacrifice of Christ. There is a reason why Jesus chose bread and wine.

I guess one of the problems I have with this is, all these kids get all excited by this guy, "high on Christ." What happens when these kids "come down" from that high? They are not being taught basic Christianity - they are being taught that to follow Jesus is to feel high. We can all attest to the fact of that is not true. Sometimes we don't feel Him at all. True faith is following Him anyway. These kids could easily be led astray, looking for that high again. The basis of a Christian life is servanthood. Are these kids being taught that Christ wants them to serve others? I don't see it. All they're being taught is high = God.

 

[TheMainException]

Hi

I've been reading this thread with interest. About a bazillion thoughts came as I read ... The first thing that sticks out to me is the phrase 'I've been following him' ... Jesus says to follow Him.

When i say "following him" I didn't mean, obeying him. I meant more like...watching him, seeing what he's doing, why he's doing it, seeing whether he's acting according to scripture and also seeing what everyone else is saying about him.

Yes, we're to meet people where they are, I believe ... but that obviously encompasses a lot. If we want to lead them to the path of Jesus then we can't start them out on another path. It has to be straight up Jesus. I think 'meeting them where they are' to me means to be non-judgemental and put yourself in their shoes ... remember the Lord actually met you both there ... I can't in my wildest imagination picture myself talking drug talk to plant seeds ... but I can picture myself talking to a drug user or pusher or whatever about Jesus ...

I want to say something about youtube ... as is the media and all the ways of the world ... youtube is not immune to misrepresentative videos ... as with cell phones that take pictures and other means of capturing time ... many reputations are ruined by theft of privacy and the right to personal freedom from someone taking a picture out of context and selling it ot any of the other number of ways some have figured out to profit ... one never has any idea how many of the videos have been altered ... but it comes more down to this ... if you want the Truth read your bible and study it ... all the other stuff is tainted ... only the bible is not ...

I believe in an order to worship that is spontaneous if that makes sense ... but the fact is there is order in all things of the Lord ...

John Crowder ... never heard of him ... is he real? I would say if you can back up everything he says and does as a teacher with scripture, then he's real ...

I've actually been 'high' on the Holy Spirit ... the one time I remember in particular lasted about three weeks ... everyone that came near me kept saying, pull her down to earth ... earth to marsha ... etc. it was the most glorious three weeks ... revelation after revelation after revelation ... I felt like a sponge just soaking it up ... there've been a numer of other times but none as intense as that time ... Jesus came in a dream and gave me a key ... the whole thing started because I'd been intensely studying and praying for several months ... one day I was cleaning out my closet and the thought occurred to me to ask the Lord how I was doing in my walk ... He spent three weeks telling me ... all I can say there is no feeling in this world like that ... only in the Spirit ...

the Lord will show you, tell you, teach you and unravel the mysteries to you if you seek HIM ... because He is where the Truth is ...

jmo
God bless

John Crowder is indeed real. What's interesting about him is that, the time that I met him, he acted in ways that seemed very humble. Once the evening was over, he didn't want praise...he even slipped out the backdoor after signing one of his books because the lady basically shoved the thing in his hands before he could run out of the room. When I was at that conference, it took me three nights to get into it because I had a lot of skepticism about him...but what he was saying seemed genuine and he preached for the offering (some churches do a short offering speech or something, he did that)...but I later found out that, the offering he preached for, wasn't for him...it was for the church. He wouldn't do the offering speech for himself, one of the pastors then did it for him. I gave 20 euros to the church and none to him...ha. (it was all I had, just a 20 euro a bill, I figured it would be better served at the church).

And Marsha...that's a really cool story...I'd love to hear more stories about people getting the wack from the holy spirit. He's amazing.

I think with the drug talk...if you're gonna talk to somebody who does drugs full time...it's their only reference. What do they want so badly? They want feelings...they want highs...they want hallucinations, escape from reality, a truth bigger than themselves, etc. They don't want to follow rules, be "loved," believe in a nonexistent god. They want something they can touch, something that they can feel running through their veins that doesn't burn like the heroin they inject, something they can see without fear rather than the spiders in the lsd they taste, something they can hear that's kinder than the goblins that speak to them in the mushrooms they eat, something that can lay them out more than the pot they smoke, something that will give them a sense of relaxation deeper than the alcohol they drink. They want the perfect high that they don't have to chase anymore. There's no more "chasing the ghost" when you're holding the ghost. If that's the kind of reference you give to a drug addict, they're gonna be all over you for it...if you give it to them...chances are good, they will NEVER go back. Somtimes John just goes into the streets and offers a "Free Buzz" to whoever wants it....as he says "the little fishy's jump into the boat." And it's true...people are hungry for something they can feel...this old religious order of christianity is painfully boring and unreal. It's just a bunch of pharisees pushing us around...give them some truth and drug addictions are to the way side and True Believers stand in their place, happy, fed, and without thirst, yet always seeking more of His face.

 

[TheMainException]

I have that gift, though it's not extremely strong. My son, who's 19, has that gift very strongly. The video made me uncomfortable, and I did not see God in it. I saw a bunch of teenagers being whipped up into a frenzy, and using God as an excuse. My son did not sense anything evil about it, but didn't sense God, either.

But I'd much rather get you into the same room with him...you can watch a video and feel only the emotions of seeing it...feeling the presence while in action is different.

I have to agree with this. "Huffing" the cross and the jolly jelly communion are making a mockery of the sacrifice of Christ. There is a reason why Jesus chose bread and wine.

Jesus chose bread and wine because that is what they had back then. It was a normal meal, that's all. He could have chosen potatoes and punch if that was the typical meal back then.

I guess one of the problems I have with this is, all these kids get all excited by this guy, "high on Christ." What happens when these kids "come down" from that high? They are not being taught basic Christianity - they are being taught that to follow Jesus is to feel high. We can all attest to the fact of that is not true. Sometimes we don't feel Him at all. True faith is following Him anyway. These kids could easily be led astray, looking for that high again. The basis of a Christian life is servanthood. Are these kids being taught that Christ wants them to serve others? I don't see it. All they're being taught is high = God.

well...as john would say "get wacked, stay wacked, never go back." haha. In all seriousness though, he is around to introduce people to a new way to see God...he's not there to teach people the basics of christianity and rules and how God works...he does conferences...he encourages people to go to church, read their bibles, pray, meditate and worship. Churches are for discipleship, conferences are for getting people saved who wouldn't be saved and partying for Jesus.

Servanthood is right, but God will bless you for it. It's not all for naught in your own self. When you obey, you get rewarded...when I obeyed, God got me wacked. I was blessed. You're right, some of the kids could be led astray...but listen to some of his sermons, like the one at Life Center where it has like 5 vids or so. I think it's posted by GodofElijah on youtube. That might give you a better picture of things other than just him throwing parties all the time. The parties thrown do have a lot more direction and order than it seems...people are blessing each other, praying for each other, dancing with each other, praising God...it's an amazing time. Those intent on blessing others are also blessed.

 

[lilmissmontana]

I think with the drug talk...if you're gonna talk to somebody who does drugs full time...it's their only reference. What do they want so badly? They want feelings...they want highs...they want hallucinations, escape from reality, a truth bigger than themselves, etc. They don't want to follow rules, be "loved," believe in a nonexistent god. They want something they can touch, something that they can feel running through their veins that doesn't burn like the heroin they inject, something they can see without fear rather than the spiders in the lsd they taste, something they can hear that's kinder than the goblins that speak to them in the mushrooms they eat, something that can lay them out more than the pot they smoke, something that will give them a sense of relaxation deeper than the alcohol they drink. They want the perfect high that they don't have to chase anymore. There's no more "chasing the ghost" when you're holding the ghost. If that's the kind of reference you give to a drug addict, they're gonna be all over you for it...if you give it to them...chances are good, they will NEVER go back. Somtimes John just goes into the streets and offers a "Free Buzz" to whoever wants it....as he says "the little fishy's jump into the boat." And it's true...people are hungry for something they can feel...this old religious order of christianity is painfully boring and unreal. It's just a bunch of pharisees pushing us around...give them some truth and drug addictions are to the way side and True Believers stand in their place, happy, fed, and without thirst, yet always seeking more of His face.[/quote]

thanks for your response ...

however, I still disagree ... if Jesus is the road you're trying to get them on ... Jesus is the road you show them ... I think what's being overlooked here is that we plant the seed ... the Lord changes the heart ...

btw ... you're speaking to a veteran of the drug world ... I was a bartender off and on for many years and most of my friends are drug reformed Christian bikers ... and I'm thinking they'd tell you the same ... but who knows ... I just know you can't miss with the real thing ... Jesus

anyway, it's been fun to visit with you ... I love the input from the younger generation ... it's comforting to know another generation loves the Lord and are seeking Truth ...

God bless!

 

[Alex-C-L]

TheMainException. I totally agree on the concept of bones holding glory but what was he speaking at the end of the video? Im certain it wasnt tongues inspired by the holy spirit, it sounded more like a demonic manifestation.
However I am open minded which is why I have both his books. If he came to England I may pay one of his meetings a visit to experience it first hand.
As far as communion goes I just cannot except jolly jelly and chips and salsa[ however maybe I am just old and stuck in my ways now].What I dont understand is why these people want to shock and be controversial. I think spirits need to be tested, not everyone whos says to Jesus did we not cast out devils in your name etc will enter heaven. We are living in times of great deception. If john Crowder is of God I pray Ill be convicted. Im still unsure

 

[TheMainException]

TheMainException. I totally agree on the concept of bones holding glory but what was he speaking at the end of the video? Im certain it wasnt tongues inspired by the holy spirit, it sounded more like a demonic manifestation.
However I am open minded which is why I have both his books. If he came to England I may pay one of his meetings a visit to experience it first hand.
As far as communion goes I just cannot except jolly jelly and chips and salsa[ however maybe I am just old and stuck in my ways now].What I dont understand is why these people want to shock and be controversial. I think spirits need to be tested, not everyone whos says to Jesus did we not cast out devils in your name etc will enter heaven. We are living in times of great deception. If john Crowder is of God I pray Ill be convicted. Im still unsure

He's been to england...maybe just wales actually...hmm...he's been to wales a few times....

LOL!!! I have NO CLUE how someone can judge whether a tongue is EVIL or not. Seriously...when I hear tongues...they're all pretty crazy in general.

And as far as shock goes...I dunno..I just don't think that's what their after necessarily...and if they think they are being led by the holy spirit...who is to knock that? But how are they to prove it? They have signs and wonders and many healings...but we consider them to "have gone to far." I guess if we wanted to know the truth, we could compare how many people who attended his conferences and "got saved" are still saved 10 years later because of it with more "normal" or "less controversial" conference leaders' people who were saved. But that's difficult and after the point.

btw ... you're speaking to a veteran of the drug world ... I was a bartender off and on for many years and most of my friends are drug reformed Christian bikers ... and I'm thinking they'd tell you the same ... but who knows ... I just know you can't miss with the real thing ... Jesus

anyway, it's been fun to visit with you ... I love the input from the younger generation ... it's comforting to know another generation loves the Lord and are seeking Truth ...

God bless!

I'll have you know as well, I'm no stranger to the realm of drugs...it's the only reason I feel so able to speak about drugs that way. What I haven't been saying is that I'm one of those people who has a high feeling seeking behavior. I've done pot, salvia, DXM, tried to do morning glory seeds, alcohol, and attempted some others for about three years now.