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stephenbooth

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56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.(John 8:56-59)

what does verse 56 mean to you. (my keyborad is messed up, question mark isnt working for some reason, time to time.)
 

Drayzon

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Although Abraham lived some 2000 years before Christ came. I believe because of the position he was in and how favored he was of God, that God allowed him to see the coming of the Lord. Maybe in a vision or dream, but as a prophet, I definitely believe special things were revealed to him.
 
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Westbrook

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> Before Abraham was, I am.

"I AM", stated in the present indicative when referring to the past, as in this context, most likely translates to YHWH in Hebrew (Exodus 3:14), which is the Name of God.

This is most likely why they wanted to kill him on the spot, for what they perceived was blasphemy. It is apparent that Jesus was proclaiming Himself to be YHWH, which is what I believe He was doing, and which is what I believe HE IS.
 
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Hupomone10

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Scripture does not spell out exactly what this means but there is some good thoughts on it. Matthew Henery is one and he is most likely correct.
Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Matthew Henry - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible
Did you realize you linked the entire chapter of Henry's notes?

Could you summarize Henry's point concerning this one particular verse? I have nothing against Henry, but don't want to wade through this to get it.

Thanks,
H.

 
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Israelsson

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> Before Abraham was, I am.

"I AM", stated in the present indicative when referring to the past, as in this context, most likely translates to YHWH in Hebrew (Exodus 3:14), which is the Name of God.

This is most likely why they wanted to kill him on the spot, for what they perceived was blasphemy. It is apparent that Jesus was proclaiming Himself to be YHWH, which is what I believe He was doing, and which is what I believe HE IS.

I am in total agreement with you. And there are NUMEROUS times when Jesus refers to Himself as the great I AM of Exodus. Here are a few more insights that may give food for thought:

An often overlooked passage proving that Jesus was the same God of the Exodus is found in 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 which reads; "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

This would bring us to another verse used by those who doubt the Godhead -- "No man hath seen God at any time (John 1:18)." Sadly, most Christians overlook the deeper meaning by throwing out the Old Testament account found in Exodus 33:19-21 that reads; "He [Yahweh] said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee [Moses], and I will proclaim the name of Yahweh before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And Yahweh said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock."

Now, how does that entire verse in John 1:18 read? It says; "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared." As you can see, this is yet another proof that Jesus is God. Notice how Yahweh makes yet another reference to 'the rock' and that Jesus Himself 'declared' these Words? These passages should also shed some extra light on why Yahweh was upset with Moses for 'striking' the rock instead of 'speaking' to it for water in Numbers 20:7-12. Remember when the Roman soldier pierced Jesus' side as He hung on the cross and "forthwith came out blood and water (John 19:34)?" Just a little something to think about.

Turn over to John 8:24 and read the words that Jesus spoke to the Jews; "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." In this verse, the word 'he' is italicized and only inserted for smoother reading so go back and read it again without the added word, "if ye believe not that I am ye shall die in your sins." Jesus is plainly saying He is God in the flesh because to 'believe' carries with it your knowledge of the Christ as God, born of a virgin, not procreated by man, but the Creator of all.

Right about now, I'll bet hundreds of verses are filling your mind but for the sake of time I'll quickly cover some: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34)." "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother (Matthew 10:35)." "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24)." "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob (Matthew 22:32)." "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am and shall deceive many (Mark 13:6)." "I am come to send fire on the earth (Luke 12:49)." "Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them (Luke 21:8)." "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world (John 8:23)." "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (John 8:58)." "Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am (John 9:9)." "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly (John 10:10)." "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for I am (John 13:13)." "Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am (John 13:19)." "I am come a light into the world (John 12:46)."

Still, here's a few more things that Jesus said about the great 'I AM' -- "I am that bread of life (John 6:48)." "I am the living bread (John 6:51)." "I am the light of the world (John 9:5)." "I am the door of the sheep (John 10:7)." "I am the good shepherd (John 10:11)." "I am the resurrection (John 11:25)." "I am the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6)." "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman (John 15:1)." "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last (Revelation 22:13)." At this point in this morning's lecture we can deduct from the Bible itself that Jesus Christ is the same I AM that spoke to Moses from the burning bush and gave His perfect Law to Israel. This also might be why He also said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (Matthew 5:17)," it's a sin to even think it.
 
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miamited

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Hi Stephen,

One thing that comes to my mind in this passage is that we probably need to define the word 'see' in this passage. I find it similar to the use of the word 'see' when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus of the kingdom of God. It is not a physical vision of the eyes contained in our skull. It is a spiritual vision given by God through His Holy Spirit to those He finds faithful. Abraham could apparently, much as I proclaim of my own faith, 'see' all that God was doing. He could 'see' His purpose and plan. He could 'see' how God was working to bring salvation to mankind.

I believe that by spiritual vision, Abraham knew that a day was coming when the God that he had been following in faith, would deliver a Messiah to the people of the world.

However, there is also a second possible and yet completely correct understanding of this passage. That would be that Abraham was alive, spiritually, as Jesus made his ministry journey throughout Israel. At the transfiguration of Jesus we are told that Moses and Elijah were there with them. Since I firmly believe that Abraham was greater than any of these, I certainly wouldn't consider it beyond understanding, that while he wasn't seen by the disciples at the transfiguration, he was 'seeing' all these things transpire. It would seem right to me, that God, as a reward for Abraham's first faithfulness would allow him to see the fruits of that faithfulness that he maintained before God before any of the promises had actually been fulfilled.

Much like someone might, years and years after they had begun some program or small business that had become a major conglomerate, might be rewarded to see how their hard work and perseverence had ultimately paid off. Similarly, Jesus may well be letting the Jews know that the man in whom they believed had started this whole plan of God in the human realm, was allowed to 'see' how the things he had trusted in God for so many centuries before worked out.

I believe that that would certainly explain his joy that Jesus speaks of. Abraham had made great sacrifices for God. He had left his family and all that was comfortable to him and just because God told him to, he traveled a great and ardous journey to the land that God then promised him. He came within a hairs breadth of having to slay his own son, on nothing more than a command of that same God. He struggled with his nephew Lot over the land and the promise and he rode out to conquer men who had taken them captive and all of this was done on nothing but pure faith. So, God may well have shown him the result of his faith.

I believe that since Jesus says that he longed to see his day, that it isn't something he saw during his lifetime. But rather was something he now saw as it was being completed and he rejoiced that God's faithfulness had paid off.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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F

FirenWater

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Just food for thought, we know God created the worlds by Christ. However its interesting that before Abraham was (even by name itself) because His name was changed from Abram after he met up with Melchizedek

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Wine (Which Melchizedek brought forth) makes glad also

Psalm 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.


John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

His encounter with Melchizedek was in Genesis 14:8 as Abram, and his name was changed in Genesis 17

Genesis 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.


So before Abraham can be shown twofold. Their question, "art thou GREATER then our father Abraham"?? is taken up by Hebrews (in relation to Melchizedek as well)

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider HOW GREAT this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.


If one wanted to take this route as well they could, and tie it up both ways, I find its helpful to tie something together from various angles if it can be. This is breif, but I posted a study on it. I thought it was kool how Hebrews takes up on just HOW GREAT Melchizedek is when they were asking (ironically) art thou GREATER in comparison to Abraham?
 
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