John 3:16-18

[cubinity]

Could someone please explain this passage to me. There seems to be a huge dispute over its meaning amongst various Christians I've spoken with, and I can't figure out what's true about the passage.

How big of a scope is Jesus referring to when He says "world?"

When He says that those that believe in him will not perish, does that mean belief is the cause of not perishing, or just that the two are somehow correlated?

If Jesus wasn't sent to condemn, then is He the same Jesus that acts as the violent judge in the Apocalypse of John?

When the verse says that Jesus is God's Son, is that implying the Jesus is someone other than God, or is it simply referring to God the Father when it says God and assuming its audience believes the Son is also God (the Trinity)?

There's definitely a lot this passage says, but between the many Christian perspectives, I can't say with any level of certainty what this passage is actually saying!

Can someone please help me out?

Here's the NIV text. If you prefer a different translation, include it in your post and explain why you choose that one:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

 

[Girder of Loins]

I like a literal what-you-see-is-what-you-get type of Bible reading. God wouldn't put something in there to make us confused on its meaning. This passage means that since God loves us, he sent His son to die for our sins. So that when people believe in this(and belief requires action), they are saved and go to Heaven. Those who don't go to Hell. Simple and clean. No "subliminal messaging" no random stuff, just simplicity.

 

[cubinity]

I like a literal what-you-see-is-what-you-get type of Bible reading. God wouldn't put something in there to make us confused on its meaning. This passage means that since God loves us, he sent His son to die for our sins. So that when people believe in this(and belief requires action), they are saved and go to Heaven. Those who don't go to Hell. Simple and clean. No "subliminal messaging" no random stuff, just simplicity.

I dig that.

However, I was talking to a Calvinist who was insisting to me that we aren't actually saved by our own belief in Jesus, or something like that. At least, that's what inspired my confusion about that particular part.

Odd, or have you heard something like that before? I know I hadn't.

 

[ebia]

How big of a scope is Jesus referring to when He says "world?"

the whole cosmos.

When He says that those that believe in him will not perish, does that mean belief is the cause of not perishing, or just that the two are somehow correlated?

Believing in Jesus IS eternal life. You can't be part of a kingdom without having the king as lord, nor have the king as lord and not be part of the kingdom. The two are essentially the same thing from different angles.

If Jesus wasn't sent to condemn, then is He the same Jesus that acts as the violent judge in the Apocalypse of John?

Eventually judgement has to be pronounced on evil. God wishes to redeem all creation, but that which does not wish to be redeemed and healed cannot play dog-in-the-manger forever.

 

[granpa]

John 3:16-18 (Young's Literal Translation)

16for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

17For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

18he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[patience7]

The sum of the matter:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Very simple and plain speech.

 

[Jpark]

Could someone please explain this passage to me. There seems to be a huge dispute over its meaning amongst various Christians I've spoken with, and I can't figure out what's true about the passage.

How big of a scope is Jesus referring to when He says "world?"

When He says that those that believe in him will not perish, does that mean belief is the cause of not perishing, or just that the two are somehow correlated?

If Jesus wasn't sent to condemn, then is He the same Jesus that acts as the violent judge in the Apocalypse of John?

When the verse says that Jesus is God's Son, is that implying the Jesus is someone other than God, or is it simply referring to God the Father when it says God and assuming its audience believes the Son is also God (the Trinity)?

There's definitely a lot this passage says, but between the many Christian perspectives, I can't say with any level of certainty what this passage is actually saying!

Can someone please help me out?

Here's the NIV text. If you prefer a different translation, include it in your post and explain why you choose that one:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

"World" means everyone. "Believe in Him" means to abide in Him/know Him.

His first coming was not for judgment and His second coming is for judgment:

Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

Rom. 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

To be the Son of God means to be divine. I don't know why some believers abhor worship of Jesus when the Son is of the same "form" as of the Father (Phil. 2:6).

John 3:16 must be read with John 11:26 and 15:5-6 (a later revelation) to make sense. 2 Thess. 1:8-9 is also a recommended read as well as Luke 13:1-5. It is also important to distinguish between physical resurrection (the one Lazarus experienced) and the resurrection Jesus experienced and which is mentioned in Matt. 22:30.

What John 3:16 actually says:

"For God so loved everyone in the world, that He gave Himself, that whoever believes [abides] in Him (in other words, whoever obeys Him) shall not perish [die] [and will not be thrown away from His presence], but have eternal life [partake in the kind of resurrection mentioned in Matt. 22:30 if not taken into heaven without seeing death and will enjoy the benefits of being in the presence of God eternally].

I dig that.

However, I was talking to a Calvinist who was insisting to me that we aren't actually saved by our own belief in Jesus, or something like that. At least, that's what inspired my confusion about that particular part.

Odd, or have you heard something like that before? I know I hadn't.

We are saved by God seeing our belief in Jesus. God bases His decision on what He sees (1 Samuel 16:7). If there was no God, our belief would be worthless because there would be no God to see it.

 

[wayseer]

There's definitely a lot this passage says, but between the many Christian perspectives, I can't say with any level of certainty what this passage is actually saying!

I cannot help you with your quest for certainty other than knowing that such a quest will inevitable be met with more uncertainty - all of which I am uncertain.

John is a very gnostic text. If John was writing for a particular community then it might be assumed that such community had access to other gnostic texts.

This assumption is supported by the rough seams and contradictions contained in the biblical text. John apparently is copying off someone but has not, for some reason, 'smoothed' over the edges of his 'cut n paste' job. For instance, the well know pericope of the woman in adultery' is almost certainly a redaction from another text. And the very length 'farewell discourses' are a constructed dialogue. Likewise, the many references to the miracle stories suggest John was looking at some other source.

John is very dualist - there are repeated demonstrates of 'light' and 'dark' that pervade the story. It's against this duality that John construct his logos - the word that is, and is not, flesh. His words are ambiguous and the reader is constantly frustrated in their bid to pin the author down on some matter. John defies pinning down. I get the feeling of wrestling with a column of smoke when reading John - but that is his objective - to get his readers to think beyond the everyday, beyond their own narrow constructions of what 'has to be'.

So I have no idea of what John 3:16-18 might mean from an objective angle. But I also know that it has, at times, spoken to me in different ways which I could never hope to explain.

 

[ebia]

John frames things in Greek idioms, but I don't think one cam seriously call it gnostic. Contrasts are not the same as dualism, John is stridently affirming of creation and his logos is the one through whom creation happened. There isn't a hint a secret knowledge. And while it's long been asserted that it is highly hellenised, scholars are coming to increasingly recognize how thoroughly Jewish it is.

That certain bits seem to be cut n pasted is better explained by them being later additions, particularly when they are missing from many good early manuscripts and the rest of John is such a carefully crafted piece.

 

[Bear.Fr00t]

I dig that.

However, I was talking to a Calvinist who was insisting to me that we aren't actually saved by our own belief in Jesus, or something like that. At least, that's what inspired my confusion about that particular part.

Odd, or have you heard something like that before? I know I hadn't.

The Bible teaches that you must believe on Jesus to be saved, but the power to believe is divinely given by the Spirit.

"No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.'' (John 6:44)

Gives your noodle something to chew on don't it!

 

[cubinity]

If you don't know the whole story, then don't believe it. This scriptures it a very tiny part of what you need for the whole story.

I can tell you the whole story but you'll still have to believe in the true God to understand it, which could take many years. God is very difficult to find because he can't be found. He gives the truth to those he chose from the beginning such as the prophets, Jesus and us saints.

Many of you are deceived by religions of men but for a very good reason. If you're interested, I can share the whole story with you.

Ooh, are you a real gnostic or do you just play one on the internet?
I'd definitely be interested to hear more of your secret knowledge!