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Dukey
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so youre saying that the resurrection of christ is unnecessary for salvation?Foon Nerfdahl said:
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so youre saying that the resurrection of christ is unnecessary for salvation?Foon Nerfdahl said:No.......people are saved by grace through faith.
And.....since faith without works is dead.................
People are saved by works. The epistle of James makes this as plain as the nose on your face.
Jesus, also.......is very clear on this......Jesus said in no uncertain terms that Zacchaeus was saved because he had changed his ways, made amends to those he had cheated, and given half his money to the poor.
When the people asked John the Baptist what they had to do to avoid being thrown into the fire, he told them to do good works--TO CARE FOR THE POOR.
Care for the poor. Care for the poor. This is NOT rocket science (although Republicans hate to hear it).
The only reason people are confused by it is that they have been programmed by false teachings and false traditions of the church.
The solution is to do what has been suggested on this thread.......question those false traditions that have been so long accepted as gospel.
Break free from that old programming and see the truth.
Is this some sort of intellectual game? God's plan of salvation called for Him to send His Son (whose birth we celebrate today) to bring us into a right relationship with Him.Dukey said:so youre saying that the resurrection of christ is unnecessary for salvation?
What I'm saying is that entering the Kingdom of God is WAY simpler than you have been led to believe.so youre saying that the resurrection of christ is unnecessary for salvation?
please refer to post #40 for context....i said:Polycarp1 said:Is this some sort of intellectual game? God's plan of salvation called for Him to send His Son (whose birth we celebrate today) to bring us into a right relationship with Him.
It's all a part of His gift of grace. Grace received by trust in Him -- in short, by faith.
And, presuming you're not a blind deaf-mute quadraplegic, you're obliged to show your faith through how you behave towards God and man.
Every piece of what God did is essential to how He felt it proper to carry out His plan -- because that's the way that He chose to do it.
Peace be with you this blessed day.
people can only be saved through the resurrection of christ
and what precisely have i been led to believe?Foon Nerfdahl said:What I'm saying is that entering the Kingdom of God is WAY simpler than you have been led to believe.
what would these demonstrations of compassion look like?Way simpler, but it may require actual demonstrations of compassion that are sorely lacking in people and nations of this current age, case in point--America.
the bible creates smokescreens?Don't be so fixed on the birth, death or "resurrection" of Jesus......those are smokescreens.
he died and resurrected and ascended to heavenConcentrate on what he did in his LIFE and try to emulate that.
Jesus, also.......is very clear on this......Jesus said in no uncertain terms that Zacchaeus was saved because he had changed his ways, made amends to those he had cheated, and given half his money to the poor.
When the people asked John the Baptist what they had to do to avoid being thrown into the fire, he told them to do good works--TO CARE FOR THE POOR.
Care for the poor. Care for the poor. This is NOT rocket science (although Republicans hate to hear it).
hhmm....im poor myselfFoon Nerfdahl said:Dukey.....you ask--what would these demonstrations of compassion LOOK like?
Come now.....you must be kidding me.
Are you READING my posts?
Allow me to help you by repeating what I said.......
how so?Foon Nerfdahl said:At least now you have a greater knowledge than you had before.
I agree, though this has nothing to do with the death of Jesus of Nazareth. I'll agree that Jesus was the son of God, but he made it a point to show that all those who live as he did are also children of God. Jesus never mentions the "Passion" as the means to salvation. He is very clear on what makes one a child of God, how one achieves forgiveness, and what obedience truly is. Hint: it has nothing to do with his execution. Don't bother with anything other than the "red print."Polycarp1 said:Is this some sort of intellectual game? God's plan of salvation called for Him to send His Son (whose birth we celebrate today) to bring us into a right relationship with Him.
It's all a part of His gift of grace. Grace received by trust in Him -- in short, by faith.
And, presuming you're not a blind deaf-mute quadraplegic, you're obliged to show your faith through how you behave towards God and man.
Every piece of what God did is essential to how He felt it proper to carry out His plan -- because that's the way that He chose to do it.
Peace be with you this blessed day.
I have been taught that this verse means just what you are saying it doesn't. I no longer believe that today. There is more than one way to skin a catChristian Knight said:John 14:6 - "I am the way, the truth, and the life; No man cometh unto the father but by me."I believe this verse means that Jesus is simply saying that since he is the one sent by God to die for the sins of ALL men (those who believe and those who do not) that makes him (Jesus) the way. Not necessarily that one has to believe in him, but that he made the way for all mankind due to his being sent, life, death, etc. He made the way via all that he did as God directed him to do. It is understandable that some would believe that they had to believe in Jesus in order to get to heaven because of all that Jesus did, but I don't find that is what Jesus' goal was for mankind. For example, when a parent tells their child that they believe in them, does that mean they worship them? When tv media runs those commercials of teenagers scanning items and talking about howthey don't do drugs, etc. and they want us (the audience, parents, friends, family, etc.) to believe in them, do they mean they want us to worship them? I don't think so. Whenever you hear someone say, "I just want you to a believe in me!" or something relating to a person being believed in, think about that phrase "believe in" and ponder it as it relates to Jesus and faith.
I would agree with you here. Having the best of intentions as some christian leaders/followers have, does not make one always correct in what they believe.So many Christian have used this verse to establish the absolute authority of Christianity. So many Christians would accuse non-Christians of taking verses from the holy bible out of context to suit their purposes, but I feel that the Christian leaders have taken this verse out of context to support their agenda.
I have come to this conclusion as well. God IS love and love IS OF God. Love and acts of righteousness are not solely limited to those who identify themselves as christians.I suggest all who are interested to read all of John 14. I believe that Jesus was in fact stating that his teachings would lead anyone who followed them to God. That God is good and the only way to know God is to be good also.
Living as he (Jesus) lived is honoring the Father and Son. Loving others is doing as Jesus did. One may acknowledge it and be aware while another person may not be aware that they are figuratively walking through the door of Christ when they live with love in action. I mean, let's face it, a person can claim to have faith in Jesus, but they could be unloving towards their neighbors (blacks, gays, Jews, etc.). What would that say about their faith? They might think, "I am saved and have my faith in Christ. That's all that matters to me!" while unbeknownst to them, their treatment of others is figuratively their treatment of Jesus. How one treats their neighbor is how one treats Jesus. If you claim to love God/Christ, who you cannot see yet you hate ANY human, you are not of God and are a liar, as I see it!!The Holy Spirit is the teacher of all men. Again, when Jesus uses "my name" here I believe it to mean his nature, which is good, which is what God is.
I have concluded this as well. I believe everyone is saved by grace. God decided to take care of all of our sins by his gift of love, Christ. Christ has saved us all. It is already done. No action on our parts necessary to obtain salvation. It was given freely by grace. No prerequisite required to make it official for the individual. If I give you a gift, I'm not going to require you to do something to get it. It's a gift!! You accept it. If you don't take it from me, I can either leave it with you or take it home with me and set it aside and still consider it yours when you do accept it. Your acceptance of it can either be physically taking it or manifesting your acceptance of it in your actions/love towards me. Salvation is not a physical gift. It is not the same as a Christmans gift, so my example here may not do justice. However,I believe when a person loves as Jesus did and lives as Jesus did, they are accepting the gift of salvation, whether they are aware of it or not. If Jesus was sent, lived, taught, died, and resurrected, you are saved! When the time comes for each person's entrance into heaven, it will solely be God's call who will enter. Don't let humans dictate to you whether you are accepted or not. Just love one another. This is how we know who is of God. God is no respector of persons. Neither should we be. Recall how the Jews viewed the Gentiles?: as unclean. Do not call unclean what God has called clean. Why are they clean? Because Jesus died for all, including Gentiles.So, my point is that when Christians say that good works are not enough to come to the father, and that only through Jesus can anyone ever hope to reach heaven, I think it is fair to make note that they are both the same thing.
Like I may have touched on before, someone can walk through a door and not be aware of where that path is taking them. Here, that door is love or God or Christ. They all are the same. Some people are aware of this love door and automatically know that it is the way of God. Others walk through this love door via their love in life and actions towards their neighbor and may not be aware that it is indeed the way of God. Should they be punished for doing what Jesus would do/living as he lived although they had not the faith as others have? (...Savior of ALL men, especially those who believe..) If someone you know enters you into a good samaritan contest and you are not aware of it, shouldn't you still get the award although you were not aware that you were being watched and your life and heart observed?All that is good returns to its source, which is God, and all that is evil is cast into the Lake of Fire, where it ceases to exist.
Let me leave you with a quote from Muhammed Ali that I like:
"My concept of religion has broadened over the years...We all have the same God. We just serve him differently. Rivers, lakes, ponds, streams, oceans all have different names, but they all contain water. So do religions have different names. They all contain truth expressed in different ways, forms, and times"
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