John 12:25

[jeffs60s]

John 12:25

Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

This is the verse that made me feel unhealthy and uncertain about Christianity. When it was finally explained to me, this verse - the way it's written now - made no sense whatsoever. I still find this a very troubling passage; troubling in the sense that way I read it can be taken so incorrectly.

At the time I was extremely depressed; I read this as:"if you're happy, you're going to die, and if you're miserable, you're going to be miserable forever". I took it as God doesn't want you to hate your life, so if you, he'll give it to you forever. At the dawn of my faith, I really did hate my life in this world. How many passages like this can get away from me, and slip through my fingers? It bothers me.

 

[beekaye]

Personally I interpret that to mean that if you obsess over materialistic nonsense, if you make that your life, it will only drag you down in the long run. If you're so shallow that in order for you to have self-worth you need to have the newest electronic toys, if you're such a raging egomaniac that you need the newest model of smartphone when it comes out, and you have to buy the case with the hole cut out of it so everyone can see the logo so that way they know how much money you spent, etc. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a satisfying life, but when what you own defines who you are that's when problems arise.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Personally I interpret that to mean that if you obsess over materialistic nonsense, if you make that your life, it will only drag you down in the long run. If you're so shallow that in order for you to have self-worth you need to have the newest electronic toys, if you're such a raging egomaniac that you need the newest model of smartphone when it comes out, and you have to buy the case with the hole cut out of it so everyone can see the logo so that way they know how much money you spent, etc. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a satisfying life, but when what you own defines who you are that's when problems arise.

We need to be amazing Canucks: just quietly read and enjoy God's Word and not be fussed by all the electronic and media buzz...

 

[jeffs60s]

I must not have expressed myself clearly. It's not about egomaniacs, smartphones, (which I dont' own) or cool logos. It's about a certain passage in the bible I'd found troubling. I think I brought this up in the wrong forum.

 

[beekaye]

I must not have expressed myself clearly. It's not about egomaniacs, smartphones, (which I dont' own) or cool logos. It's about a certain passage in the bible I'd found troubling. I think I brought this up in the wrong forum.

No, this is the right place, I was just coming at it from a modern perspective because I'm not a primitive living in a mud shack two thousand years ago, and I thought it may be easier for you to relate that way. It's about denying the worldly things. It's about not letting the world dictate to you who you should be. The more time and energy you spend on obsessing about the world, about electronic toys, about cars, about television, about alcohol, about what your friends and neighbours think about you then the less time and energy you have for what is important. That being your spiritual health and your relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

 

[faroukfarouk]

No, this is the right place, I was just coming at it from a modern perspective because I'm not a primitive living in a mud shack two thousand years ago, and I thought it may be easier for you to relate that way. It's about denying the worldly things. It's about not letting the world dictate to you who you should be. The more time and energy you spend on obsessing about the world, about electronic toys, about cars, about television, about alcohol, about what your friends and neighbours think about you then the less time and energy you have for what is important. That being your spiritual health and your relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

I like John's First Epistle, where there's a big contrast between the world and faith in the Lord and walking in the light. It's a matter of what we concentrate on.

 

[jeffs60s]

I'm not an expert on the scripture, but I always interupted it to believe that this life was fleeting in the sense that we're corrupted by sin and that a new one is awaiting us in heaven. God is not saying to be unhappy, just that life is essentially a dress reheaseal for eternity, so focus on Him, because the afterlife is the main event.

Thanks Tanner, this is a helpful answer. This passage was explained by my pastor as meaning pretty much how you just described it. This passage bothered me about 14 months ago when I first read it. It struck me troubling as to how I can misinterpret things.

 

[mnorian]

John 12:25

Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

This is the verse that made me feel unhealthy and uncertain about Christianity. When it was finally explained to me, this verse - the way it's written now - made no sense whatsoever. I still find this a very troubling passage; troubling in the sense that way I read it can be taken so incorrectly.

At the time I was extremely depressed; I read this as:"if you're happy, you're going to die, and if you're miserable, you're going to be miserable forever". I took it as God doesn't want you to hate your life, so if you, he'll give it to you forever. At the dawn of my faith, I really did hate my life in this world. How many passages like this can get away from me, and slip through my fingers? It bothers me.

This passage in John correlates/cross references with Mark 8:35: "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it."

Also the verse just before says: John 12:24; "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain."

Jesus was talking in these passages about Him being glorified (crucified-raised from the dead) and drawing all peoples to Him; for salvation.
John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

So a person who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his savior loses life eternal with Him; but those who live for Christ (follows Him/takes up their cross/dies to self) will live forever with Him and be where ever He is. > John 12:26 "If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

John 12:25
Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
This is the verse that made me feel unhealthy and uncertain about Christianity.

"Hate" doesn't really mean hate; Jesus was using the word to forcefully get his point across.
He also said we should hate our families if they stand between him and us, but we know he didn't mean to literally hate them either.
Personally I "hate" the world but only in the sense that being trapped in this squishy body on this spinning ball of mud bores me to some extent because they and the universe are composed of material atoms and molecules, and I look forward to getting onto the purely spiritual plane after my body dies.
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50)
As the song goes, we're "Spirits in the Material World", so no wonder the world has no real attraction for all spiritually-minded people who feel trapped in it..

More warnings not to let ourselves be bogged down in the world and not to take it seriously-
"Don't conform to the pattern of this world" (Romans 12:2)
"As a soldier of Christ, please only God and not the world" (2 Timothy 2:3-4)
"Don't love the world or the things in it,otherwise the love of God is not in you" (1 John 2:15-17)
"Set your mind on things above,not on things on the earth" (Colossians 3:2)
"You were bought at a price,don't serve men" (1 Corinthians 7:23)
"A friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4)
"You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Ephesians 2:1/2)
"You died with Christ from this world, so don't keep submitting to its rules" (Colossians 2:20)

 

[jeffs60s]

"Hate" doesn't really mean hate; Jesus was using the word to forcefully get his point across.
He also said we should hate our families if they stand between him and us, but we know he didn't mean to literally hate them either.
Personally I "hate" the world but only in the sense that being trapped in this squishy body on this spinning ball of mud bores me to some extent because they and the universe are composed of material atoms and molecules, and I look forward to getting onto the purely spiritual plane after my body dies.
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 15:42-50)
As the song goes, we're "Spirits in the Material World", so no wonder the world has no real attraction for all spiritually-minded people who feel trapped in it..

More warnings not to let ourselves be bogged down in the world and not to take it seriously-
"Don't conform to the pattern of this world" (Romans 12:2)
"As a soldier of Christ, please only God and not the world" (2 Timothy 2:3-4)
"Don't love the world or the things in it,otherwise the love of God is not in you" (1 John 2:15-17)
"Set your mind on things above,not on things on the earth" (Colossians 3:2)
"You were bought at a price,don't serve men" (1 Corinthians 7:23)
"A friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4)
"You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Ephesians 2:1/2)
"You died with Christ from this world, so don't keep submitting to its rules" (Colossians 2:20)

 

[jeffs60s]

I thank you for this. This passage of scripture was explained to me, and has not bothered me for quite a long time. I only posted it as I thought it was a very troubling passage at a certain time of my life. I think you're really understanding that as you also shared other confusing pieces of scripture. I thank you for that.

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

I was always a stubborn strong-willed chap, for example I was expelled from school and had brushes with the law in my younger days, but I like to think I've mellowed a little bit since then..
However, my rebellious streak is burning as brightly as ever, thank God, so i've always found it easy to reject the silly ways of the world and not dance to its tune-
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matthew 11:16-17,Luke 4:18)

It's the people who don't have my stubborn streak who I feel sorry for because they're ensnared and overawed by the world and bogged down in it because they're too easy-going for their own good.
I only hope my iron will and strength rubs off on them in religious discussion forums around internet-land-
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (Proverbs 27:17)
and I'm happy to say that the feedback I get from them indicates I'm having some success in that respect..

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

And here's a verse I like which sums up how the Christian mindset looks beyond the material world-
"For we look at things unseen rather than the seen,for the seen are temporary,but the unseen are eternal" (2 Cor 4:18)

That fearless confident "faraway look" is to be found in all Christians eyes such as these-
"My Christian faith has been such a backbone through so many difficult times. For me Christianity is about being strengthened"- Bear Grylls

"God makes His reality so obvious to us in His creation and in the little mini-miracles that happen everyday"- Becky St. James

"To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible, it just strengthens my faith"- John Glenn

 

[Fun2Worlds]

I also struggled many years with depression.
Mine was a combination of spiritual attacks, emotional attacks, and even physical attacks; but also chemical.
After I got married, I still experienced the spiritual attacks and chemical.
I got divorced, and my new wife supports me in prayer.
I can't say we've been under a strong spiritual attack lately anymore, and ever since I met her, I also figured out my blood type (A+) needs Vitamin B12 as a necessary supplement.
So I started taking half a dose a day, and my depression totally disappeared!

Anyway, the verse "to lose your life for His sake", actually comes down to, doing what is hardest for you, to follow Him.
Many times in my christian walk, I've had to choose the hardest decisions; not the easiest ones.
I remembering standing on the 4th floor window, and thinking, I had just to lean forward a bit, and I would be in heaven with Him.
But God spoke to me,
He didn't want me to die for Him; He wanted me to live for Him.
And living was certainly the harder part of it all.
But it has been also a rewarding journey!
My depressions have been gone ever I've remarried; thanks to the supplements and to the prayer of my faithful prayerwarrior wife! I no longer needed to carry the burden of prayer alone in the family!

Also the fact that if life sucks, you never know what tomorrow might bring!
If today sucks so bad, you're an inch away from taking your life, know that the chances are definitely high, that tomorrow will be better. Can't suck more than today, can it?
And if it did, you'd have to cross that bridge when you get there...
But for now, tomorrow might be a brighter day.

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

My depressions have been gone ever I've remarried; thanks to the supplements and to the prayer of my faithful prayerwarrior wife!..

You're lucky, I never married or had a longterm ladyfriend (simply because I never met anyone) and have had to go through life alone for the past 50-odd years of my adult life (sniffle).
Speaking of serious depression, I've only ever been hit with it once many years ago, an 8-week spell out of the blue for no discernible trigger, during which I was swamped by waves of despair and a sense of the futility of human existence.
A line from Macbeth summed it up- "Full of scorpions is my mind"
I turned to the Bible for comfort and the depression eventually lifted thank God.
I was also down in the dumps for a while much later (not actual depression, just a feeling of mental fatigue and being cold all the time like a cold-blooded reptile) and my doctor diagnosed a "borderline underactive" thyroid.
He didn't prescribe meds and said "Give it some time to see if it clears up on its own", so I basked on warm rocks along Plymouth UK seafront and it seemed to help.
I also looked for a miracle cure and tried some grapefruit slices which seemed to help, and was right as rain after a year or two..

 

[Fun2Worlds]

I'm not going to say that I have the answers for everyone out there.
All I know is that there where things I really wanted in life, and things I couldn't care less of.
I've never had a Ferrari, or castle-like house, because I couldn't care less about it!
Few of those things I've really wanted, was having my own computer, when I was a teenager, getting to know this guy who was 10 years older than me, and played drums on a pro-level; I had much admiration for him; and getting married.

I was fortunate enough to get my first pc at the age of 18; and was not only able to personally get to know the drummer a bit better, but even play with him in the band on occasion (I was playing bass).
Concerning my wife, I felt like I could live my life like anyone else, but realized, that if I didn't do something, I would never get married.
It just wasn't happening...
The only thing I could think of, was going to the Lord with my desires and prayers.
And the more I did, since it was something I really wanted, the more I realized, that "They don't have, because they don't ask" principle was so true in my life...

Most of the time, we trick ourselves into saying we've asked God for so long, but in real fact, we might have had a few seasons where we asked, or had a long longing, but never verbalized it to God. But we never persisted. And sometimes we asked wrong.

When I asked, I started out asking wrong. But time changed the way I asked. I started to look forward to the reward, and He started to change me. I started to learn about love, and He prepared me.
I always say, that God didn't provide what I asked for; but he formed me, and changed me, so I would end up attracting what I was asking for!
I asked for love, and He made me love. I asked for companionship, and He made me give companionship.
I not only prayed, but also talked to God about my feelings. What I liked, disliked, think I needed, and laying down all those feelings before Him.
They made me a lot more sensitive in to opening myself up for Him!

He changed and prepared me, and then brought the right person to me.
We clicked immediately! From the first 2 hours, I knew I really liked her. It took her a day or two (or she was in denial, lol), but she started having feelings for me she never knew she had! Although I knew she liked me on some level even from the first day!

All I can say is that some just don't have, because they have not walked with God, the walk of preparation, necessary to receive this great gift of marriage!
Others don't have because their priorities are different! Maybe career, hobbies, or fun where more important...
Then yet others want, but won't receive; or some don't want, but forcefully enter into a marriage... Either one of them I don't understand, but the Lord always has a reason for it!


Just saying...

 

[Grabs Popcorn]

..All I can say is that some just don't have, because they have not walked with God, the walk of preparation, necessary to receive this great gift of marriage!..

I think deep down the fault is mine, I never really wanted to get married or have kids, I'd have felt trapped as a "family man" so it just never happened.
However if there's a lonely sweet-natured woman out there who needs my strength and support, I do mumble a little prayer now and again to help me find her. I've been in a couple of dating websites for several years but haven't found such an angel yet, so the thought has crossed my mind that maybe God doesn't want me to get married.
I live alone and actually enjoy the peace and quiet with all the time in the world to surf the religious discussion websites and give spiritual advice to people, so perhaps he wants me to carry on without distraction..