Joe's Perfection/Fellowship of Suffering Thread

[Byfaithalone1]

I thought this deserved its own thread.

BFA

Originally Posted by Joe

There is perfection in Jesus Christ to be attained by a few of those who are given to believe the truth that is in Jesus. This perfection in the fellowship of Jesus' sufferings in his priesthood is given through the sanctification of the Spirit.

Those who remain in religious fellowships always seek some type of mature/perfect satisfaction when their form of doctrine and worship is fully developed. Satisfaction in the flesh always ends with some type of holy days and foods through the god of their belly.

Satisfaction through the Spirit of Jesus ends with suffering the loss of all things as their form of worship is taken from them like Hagar and Ishmael being sent out of the camp.

Gal 3:3
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? KJV

Heb 6:1-3
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit. KJV

God has ordained that a few, of the many who are justified, be sanctified through the Spirit and set apart for fellowship in the mystery of the sufferings of Christ in his everlasting priesthood that ministers to the nations a rod of iron and heals them with the leaves from the tree of life.

Col 1:25-2:1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. KJV

Joe
​

 

[Byfaithalone1]

There is perfection in Jesus Christ to be attained by a few of those who are given to believe the truth that is in Jesus. This perfection in the fellowship of Jesus' sufferings in his priesthood is given through the sanctification of the Spirit.

What does this perfection look like?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

What does this perfection look like?

BFA

BFA,

Matt 8:19-22
19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. KJV

And what it does not look like:

1 Cor 16:12
12 As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time. KJV

He sought convenience:

Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. KJV

convenience cont'd: Apollos' basic temperament was like Aaron, an eloquent man. Aaron was Moses' spokesman to Pharaoh.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

BFA,

Matt 8:19-22
19 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. KJV

And what it does not look like:

1 Cor 16:12
12 As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time; but he will come when he shall have convenient time. KJV

He sought convenience:

Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. KJV

convenience cont'd: Apollos' basic temperament was like Aaron, an eloquent man. Aaron was Moses' spokesman to Pharaoh.

Joe

What does this "convenience" look like today? What would be a modern example?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

What does this "convenience" look like today? What would be a modern example?

BFA

BFA,

Convenience does not believe and obey the Word of Jesus through Peter's testimony in 1 Peter 4 concerning the true grace of God.

1 Peter 4:12-14
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. KJV

1 Peter 4:19-5:1
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. KJV

1 Peter 5:10
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
KJV

1 Peter 5:12
12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand. KJV

Convenience teaches that it is not necessary for us to suffer "as christians", and it teaches that we only suffer because of our transgressions and sins of disobedience. It teaches that the benefits of obedience as promised to Moses, will be the benefits to us in Jesus Christ in this present evil world; that is, being the head and not the tail, being the lender and not the borrower, being the master and not the servant.

The Spirit of Jesus will show us personally the biblical and present day examples of this, that we individually need to see, to convict each of us of our own participation in this spirit of iniquity that leads to perdition, like Judas the son of perdition.

2 Tim 2:19
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Do you sense that you and I view this subject differently?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Do you sense that you and I view this subject differently?

BFA

BFA,

It is the same view of the Sovereign Lord, but a different place in the wanderings wherein he shows us the place to sojourn.

The Lord has spoken to each of us through the same Biblical witnesses.

He has given both of us to see that the liberty that is in Jesus Christ is the reality of all things witnessed by the Spirit.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It is the same view of the Sovereign Lord, but a different place in the wanderings wherein he shows us the place to sojourn.

Can you describe the differences between the places where we sojourn? It could be that you've seen something I have not. Admittedly, I do not see the difference and may learn something from understanding more about it.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Can you describe the differences between the places where we sojourn? It could be that you've seen something I have not. Admittedly, I do not see the difference and may learn something from understanding more about it.

BFA

BFA,

Paul wrote something to Timothy that seemed like a return to human works, as I read the communication. It did not seem to fit into the righteousness of Jesus Christ apart from the law, which had been revealed to my heart about 7 years earlier, at approximately 23 yrs of age. Here is the communication which seemed like a return to works.

2 Tim 3:10-11
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. KJV

I am 69 years of age now and Paul's communication to Timothy appears differently to me than it did at approximately the age of 30.

The vision of Jesus Christ does grow in our thoughts through the workings of the Spirit of grace. It is more than reading/hearing the words, though it is through reading/hearing the words.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Here is the communication which seemed like a return to works.

Not sure Paul needed to return to works because I don't sense that he ever left. Paul speaks to the value of works throughout his writings. IMHO he had a good understanding of what works were for and what they weren't for. Similarly, I don't sense a need to return to works for they have been part of my life for many years. The Spirit creates fruit in the lives of the people whom He justifies and sanctifies. Praise God for HIS glorious work.

I suppose I'm still a little confused as to the reason you believe we sojourn in different places. We probably do. I just haven't yet seen the difference. I welcome more information.

Paul wrote something to Timothy that seemed like a return to human works, as I read the communication. It did not seem to fit into the righteousness of Jesus Christ apart from the law, which had been revealed to my heart about 7 years earlier, at approximately 23 yrs of age. I am 69 years of age now and Paul's communication to Timothy appears differently to me than it did at approximately the age of 30.

Although I am confident that age is not a measure of wisdom, I can assure you that age 23 has been in the rear view window for many years now. Heck, age 30 has been in the rear view window for many years now. I hope that both of us are open to learning more, regardless of our age.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Not sure Paul needed to return to works because I don't sense that he ever left. Paul speaks to the value of works throughout his writings. IMHO he had a good understanding of what works were for and what they weren't for. Similarly, I don't sense a need to return to works for they have been part of my life for many years. The Spirit creates fruit in the lives of the people whom He justifies and sanctifies. Praise God for HIS glorious work.

I suppose I'm still a little confused as to the reason you believe we sojourn in different places. We probably do. I just haven't yet seen the difference. I welcome more information.



Although I am confident that age is not a measure of wisdom, I can assure you that age 23 has been in the rear view window for many years now. Heck, age 30 has been in the rear view window for many years now. I hope that both of us are open to learning more, regardless of our age.

BFA

BFA,

The answer to your being a little confused about where we sojourn and your confidence regarding age is illustrated by the two men who were given to run to David and bring him the message of the outcome of the battle with Absalom.

Their messages were identical in the first part. Their answers to the king when he questioned each of them revealed that their minds were sojourning in different parts of God's spiritual kingdom.

Even Joab, in spite of his intrigue, saw how the result would be.

Another example is Peter's confidence in his willingness to follow Jesus.
Peter believed that he was sojourning in the same place with Jesus.

John 13:33-37
33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake. KJV

After Gethsemane, Calvary and resurrection our Lord Jesus told Peter that when he was young that he (Peter) went where he decided. But that when he was old that he would stretch forth his hands and another carry him where he did not want to go.

John 21:18-19
18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. KJV

Even then at the seashore, Peter's response revealed that the lesson did not move his thoughts at that time. Even then Peter's mind was in a different place than Jesus' mind, but the love of Christ had taken hold of Peter's heart. The counsel and the reproof took possession of his heart.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The answer to your being a little confused about where we sojourn and your confidence regarding age is illustrated by the two men who were given to run to David and bring him the message of the outcome of the battle with Absalom. Their messages were identical in the first part. Their answers to the king when he questioned each of them revealed that their minds were sojourning in different parts of God's spiritual kingdom. Even Joab, in spite of his intrigue, saw how the result would be.

Can you provide the application of this story to the differences between the places where we sojourn? Please try to be more specific. Where do you sojourn and how is it different from where it is you think I sojourn? The only thing I've been able to gather from your responses is that you believe you are older than I am. Is that what you're wanting to tell me? That you wish I was 69?

Another example is Peter's confidence in his willingness to follow Jesus. Peter believed that he was sojourning in the same place with Jesus. After Gethsemane, Calvary and resurrection our Lord Jesus told Peter that when he was young that he (Peter) went where he decided. But that when he was old that he would stretch forth his hands and another carry him where he did not want to go. Even then at the seashore, Peter's response revealed that the lesson did not move his thoughts at that time. Even then Peter's mind was in a different place than Jesus' mind, but the love of Christ had taken hold of Peter's heart. The counsel and the reproof took possession of his heart.

In this example, am I to understand that you are Jesus and I am Peter? If so, I'm not sure what to do with that. If not, can you help me connect the dots between the story about Jesus and Peter and our discussion in this thread? Something more specific would be much appreciated. What is the specific difference between the place where you sojourn and the place where you think I sojourn?

Are you simply projecting where you were when you were a 23 year old onto a person who said goodbye to 23 many years ago? ff so, that seems pretty futile. At 23, I lived and breathed legalism, not license.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Can you provide the application of this story to the differences between the places where we sojourn? Please try to be more specific. Where do you sojourn and how is it different from where it is you think I sojourn? The only thing I've been able to gather from your responses is that you believe you are older than I am. Is that what you're wanting to tell me? That you wish I was 69?



In this example, am I to understand that you are Jesus and I am Peter? If so, I'm not sure what to do with that. If not, can you help me connect the dots between the story about Jesus and Peter and our discussion in this thread? Something more specific would be much appreciated. What is the specific difference between the place where you sojourn and the place where you think I sojourn?

Are you simply projecting where you were when you were a 23 year old onto a person who said goodbye to 23 many years ago? ff so, that seems pretty futile. At 23, I lived and breathed legalism, not license.

BFA

BFA,

Isa 24:18
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. KJV

All of us pass through the experiences witnessed in this testimony of Jesus. We do experience these, whether we are given to hear and see our unbelief and disobedience depicted therein or are not given to hear and see it.

Abraham was given to hear and see his service in the pit and his being taken in the snare. Then the Lord gave him to hear and see the promised deliverance in the resurrection of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus' Body/Family of earth, who are judged/accounted worthy by the Word of the Son of man, raised from the dead.

The promises of God are for the elect children who serve in the pit and for the elect children who are taken in the snare. Both will be delivered together by the Voice of the Son of God, the resurrected Jesus, the Son of man, who has accounted them worthy of the resurrection unto life and confessed them before the Father and the holy angels in the day of judgment, the day of the Lord.

Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

All of us pass through the experiences

Indeed. All of us pass through experiences. These experiences are personal and provide a glimpse into the places where we sojourn. If you'd like to learn more about my journey, feel free to ask questions while avoiding the temptation to project your own past on me. Remember it is the children who understood faith the best.

Abraham was given to hear and see his service in the pit and his being taken in the snare. Then the Lord gave him to hear and see the promised deliverance in the resurrection of Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus' Body/Family of earth, who are judged/accounted worthy by the Word of the Son of man, raised from the dead.

The promises of God are for the elect children who serve in the pit and for the elect children who are taken in the snare. Both will be delivered together by the Voice of the Son of God, the resurrected Jesus, the Son of man, who has accounted them worthy of the resurrection unto life and confessed them before the Father and the holy angels in the day of judgment, the day of the Lord.

Please know that the door is always open if you'd like to discuss the topic of this thread in a more open and specific way. If that day ever comes, I'll look forward to a clear presentation of your perspective and why you believe it differs from mine.

Thanks,
BFA

 

[Joe67]

The pit is in the good of the worship of God.

The snare is in the kindness of humanitarianism.

These are both highly respected by man and have an appearance of love for God and love for man. They make a shew of wisdom in will worship and voluntary humility.

The pit and snare are the hidden secrets of the heart and mind of man and angel, of which he cannot be aware through intellectual communications. The best we can do is to say that these hidden qualities live in man and angel and to give further carnal descriptions of their dispositions and behaviors.

Servants of the Lord have denied that they are inhabited by such wicked qualities, until the Lord revealed it to them. Yes, we have all denied and come short of the glory of God.

Joe

 

[Joe67]

When the 12 tribes turned back to Egypt in their heart at Mt. Sinai and the Lord gave them up to worship angels, then the tribes worked with zeal on the tabernacle, thinking in their hearts that it would assure them a right to go to heaven, just the way the Egyptians worshiped. The spirit of some was stirred up to willingly give and/or work, for a bodily reward. When we flee from terror behind us, we fall into the pit of the works of the law.

Eventually, approximately 1000+ years later, the leaders in Jerusalem tired of the worship of a far off invisible God and began to seek wealth and prosperity in the same mind set of the Babylonians and Tyre and Sidon, as financial brokers . This was a snare to them and brought about the destruction of the Temple and most of Jerusalem. They rejected/neglected the counsel of the Lord through the prophets. When we climb up out of the pit of the works of the law, we are taken in the snare of living the good life through commercialism.

Those in the pit and those taken in the snare are not able to suffer shame for the way, the truth and the life that is in Jesus. The pit desires to go to heaven immediately and be freed from bodily necessities. The snare wants earthly pleasure first and claims all the promises of health and prosperity that the Lord promised through Moses, based upon obedience to all that is written in the book of the law. Yet, the snare does not obey all that is written in the book of the law to do them because the feet that are snared do not touch the ground, even as the little he goat of Daniel 8. When our feet do not touch the ground, we do not do what we say.

The carnal/childish mind is not subject to the law of God/Christ, neither indeed can be. A child cannot suffer shame, even for its nakedness in the pit of the works of the law. The youth will take the inheritance and go spend it on riotous living until they come to their senses.

The fellowship of Jesus' sufferings is when we are given grace to suffer shame for his name.

Phil 3:10
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; KJV

Acts 5:40-41
40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. KJV

Joe

 

[Joe67]

Some more thoughts concerning the need to come to maturity in Christ Jesus and to not draw/turn back unto the world through vain Greek hopes or idolatrous greed through the written code of Moses, the bill of divorcement to the 12 tribes, after they went a-whoring after other gods at Mt. Sinai as they provoked the Lord. The speaking of the Lord's voice in the sound of the trumpet is before the written code. The 12 tribes could not bear to hear the sound of the Voice in the trumpet. Moses trembled.

2 Peter 2:19-21
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. KJV

Mark 9:42
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. KJV

Luke 11:24-26
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.

26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. KJV

Joe