Job; Justification for our suffering, or a tale of victory?

churchlady · Apr 16, 2006

Christina M said:
He does honor His word, Gill!! It says you must believe you have received it when you pray.

You have just said: "When he tells me that he is going to heal me, then he will." That shows you haven't yet received......

He has ALREADY said He is going to heal you... in His Word. You don't need to hear from Him again.

In fact, if we don't receive what He has already said in scriptures, why should He speak a further personal word about the matter to us? First believe what He has already said and begin acting on it.

probinson · Apr 16, 2006

Strong in Him said:
The part about God healing is true, but nowhere in the word does it say that if a person remains unhealed then it's because they are refusing it, and holding fast to their sickness like a "badge of honour." That is an observation.

Have you looked at my "Yet ANOTHER healing thread"? There are TONS of scriptures where Jesus plainly said "Your faith has made you whole". There are TONS of scriptures where Jesus spoke of people's "lack of faith" in an "unbelieving generation". I've compiled many of these scriptures into the opening post of that thread. These are Jesus' words, not mine. This one instance here says it all:

Matthew 17:16-21
16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him." 17 "O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to me." 18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment. 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?" 20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

That means what it says. How else can it be interpreted? Why couldn't they drive it out? The answer, according to Jesus was, "Because you have so little faith". Say something like that on this forum and you'll be labeled a heretic, uncompassionate, rude, ignorant and any other number of slanderous terms, yet Jesus told his disciples quite plainly that it was a lack of faith that prevented them from casting out the demon.

I don't understand why this is largely ignored. All one has to do is read through the gospels and you can see that Jesus was VERY concerened with faith as it pertained to healing. In fact, the Bible says quite plainly that He COULD NOT do miracles because of a lack of faith. Think about the gravity of that statement. Jesus, our Lord and Savior, God made flesh to dwell among us, COULD NOT do miracles because people lacked faith. That's astounding!

Is faith the ONLY way to get healed? Of course not. As some have so helpfully pointed out, God in His sovereignty can heal you whether you believe or not. So, we can wait around for God to heal us, or we can actively push through the chaos and touch Jesus in faith. The choice is ours. Look what Jesus said when the woman with the issue of blood did that exact thing:

Mark 5:34
34 He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."

Strong in Him · Apr 16, 2006

probinson said:
Have you looked at my "Yet ANOTHER healing thread"?

No, because I'm sick of the subject and the fact that all "discussions" boil down to "this is what I believe" verses "well you're wrong, and you're refusing to believe what God has said."

What's the point of trying to discuss and ask questions when some people assume I have a hidden agenda, I am wilfully disobedient, heretical, lazy or self centred? (To quote some of the insults thrown my way on the "mental problems" thread.

probinson said:
There are TONS of scriptures where Jesus plainly said "Your faith has made you whole". There are TONS of scriptures where Jesus spoke of people's "lack of faith" in an "unbelieving generation". I've compiled many of these scriptures into the opening post of that thread. These are Jesus' words, not mine. This one instance here says it all:

Saying that someone does not have the faith for healing is NOT the same as saying that someone is deliberately refusing it. Deliberately refusing something implies, to me anyway, that something is available and offered to a person but they will not take it. Not that they are hesitant about taking it because it appears too good to be true, or they can't believe it's really for them, but they know what it is and don't want it. They are choosing to reject it.

In this case someone was being accused of refusing healing. He was also accused of holding onto his suffering and wearing it like a "badge of honour." This is not Scriptural and there were no grounds for saying it.

probinson · Apr 16, 2006

Strong in Him said:
No, because I'm sick of the subject and the fact that all "discussions" boil down to "this is what I believe" verses "well you're wrong, and you're refusing to believe what God has said."

What's the point of trying to discuss and ask questions when some people assume I have a hidden agenda, I am wilfully disobedient, heretical, lazy or self centred? (To quote some of the insults thrown my way on the "mental problems" thread.

This is a 2-way street. You either buck up and be the man (or woman in your case) of God that you know you are and rise above all the personal insults, or you bow out.

In the last 3 days, I've been called an uncompassionate, unloving heretic with a hidden agenda that is willfully and knowingly disregarding certain portions of the WORD to fit my doctrine and leading people astray with my "scary doctrine" of a good God. That doesn't bother me in the least because I am assured of who I am in Christ.

Call me what you will. I'm the head and not the tail, above and not beneath. I'm more than a conqueror. I'm a child of the Most High King. I can do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me.

No boasting. Just fact.

Strong in Him · Apr 17, 2006

probinson said:
This is a 2-way street. You either buck up and be the man (or woman in your case) of God that you know you are and rise above all the personal insults, or you bow out.

I know who I am in Christ. If people who only know me through a computer screen want to call me a self centred heretic, that's their loss. I'm not going to slash my wrists. But the arguments themseves still don't actually go anywhere. I don't feel uplifted or challenged by any of them, and my saying that i can't accept them has been translated as wilfiul refusal to accet them.

I have better things to do than continue discussions with people whose main aim seems to be to tell me how wrong I am.

Joy · Apr 17, 2006

Why is there no care here anymore at one time we could disagree buut still pray support and be here for each other and i confess I really miss that.

JimfromOhio · Apr 17, 2006

Jesusismydeliverer said:
Why is there no care here anymore at one time we could disagree buut still pray support and be here for each other and i confess I really miss that.

Man's doctrines and reasonings are more important than God's Word of the TRUE God's Character. This thread should tell you alot about people's behaviors and thoughts. The are just corrupting their thoughts with their wishful images of God against the Scriptures?

People like to argue and debate. Their views are more child-like by attacking like a child as Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brethren, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real credibility.

We need to realize where is our spiritual battle is. Its not the person but the spiritual forces that are twisting words around. A true Christian can be zealous but it is also possible to be zealous and not behave like a Christian. If zeal indicates godliness, then Christian virtues should be used. Becoming engrossed in spiritual debates which lead spiritual distractions. As long as we remain in this twisted world.

But hey, you learn alot from threads like this.

TreeOfLife · Apr 17, 2006

2 Peter 3:16-18
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
NKJV

JimfromOhio · Apr 17, 2006

TreeOfLife said:
2 Peter 3:16-18
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
NKJV

Yep... False Teachings from within including this Forum. But hey, people love to argue and bating and causing strife. Its fun for them.

TreeOfLife · Apr 17, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Yep... False Teachings from within including this Forum. But hey, people love to argue and bating and causing strife. Its fun for them.

2 Peter 3:16-18
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
NKJV

JimfromOhio · Apr 17, 2006

TreeOfLife said:
2 Peter 3:16-18
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.
NKJV

Yes.. but look at 1 Peter...

You can have GREAT knowledge but if you don't have spiritual wisdom, your knowledge is worthless. The heart is the source of our thoughts and motives. The heart is the part of our being where we desire, deliberate, and decide. 1 Peter 1: 13 - 16 Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." Spiritual growth requires us to understand the Scriptures and get to know our God the Father, our Savior the Son, and our comforter the Holy Spirit. Put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God.

Titus 1:1-2
The knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God.

2 Peter 1:5-9
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

Oh yes.. my favorite: Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.

Christians today are so entangled with "reasonings". Our hearts (core) are seated deep within our minds where they pollutes our emotions (desires), the intellect (imaginations) and the will (purposes). Wisdom sees everything in focus, each in proper relation to all, and is able to work toward God's perspective rather than ours.

We are to know God and His Word from our hearts. Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD - 1 Corinthians 12:8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit. Proverbs 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. Proverbs 18:15 The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. Proverbs 23:12 Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge.

probinson · Apr 17, 2006

Strong in Him said:
I have better things to do than continue discussions with people whose main aim seems to be to tell me how wrong I am.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you "have better things to do", then why are you posting so fervently? No one is holding a gun to your head making you post. If it's so discouraging, why keep coming back?

For the record, I agree that the personal attacks on both sides of any debate here at CF are completely unwarranted and out of line, but Jesus Himself people would say all kinds of evil against us. In fact, He said to beware when all men think well of you.

I don't have that problem.

probinson · Apr 17, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Man's doctrines and reasonings are more important than God's Word of the TRUE God's Character. This thread should tell you alot about people's behaviors and thoughts. The are just corrupting their thoughts with their wishful images of God against the Scriptures?

People like to argue and debate. Their views are more child-like by attacking like a child as Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brethren, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real credibility.

We need to realize where is our spiritual battle is. Its not the person but the spiritual forces that are twisting words around. A true Christian can be zealous but it is also possible to be zealous and not behave like a Christian. If zeal indicates godliness, then Christian virtues should be used. Becoming engrossed in spiritual debates which lead spiritual distractions. As long as we remain in this twisted world.

But hey, you learn alot from threads like this.

What I've learned from you in particular is that if you can't convince someone of your argument, you should move away from the issue at hand and attack the poster's character and integrity instead. It really will help your point.

For the record, I've posted a new thread that has nothing but scripture in the OP. It's not "man's reasonings" that's at stake here. It's the clear teaching of Jesus.

Strong in Him · Apr 17, 2006

probinson said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you "have better things to do", then why are you posting so fervently? No one is holding a gun to your head making you post. If it's so discouraging, why keep coming back?

I'm not posting anymore. I was last night, mainly out of sheer frustration that people weren't listening, just insulting. I can't be bothered now.

probinson · Apr 17, 2006

Strong in Him said:
I'm not posting anymore. I was last night, mainly out of sheer frustration that people weren't listening, just insulting. I can't be bothered now.

I always laugh when someone says something like "I could say you're a big doodie-head, but I'll resist that temptation". It's kinda like saying you're not posting anymore IN A POST.

Ahem.

All joking aside, I understand what you're saying. Have a great day (night?)

JimfromOhio · Apr 17, 2006

Strong in Him said:
I'm not posting anymore. I was last night, mainly out of sheer frustration that people weren't listening, just insulting. I can't be bothered now.

That's why I took a "break" on EASTER.

JimfromOhio · Apr 17, 2006

probinson said:
What I've learned from you in particular is that if you can't convince someone of your argument, you should move away from the issue at hand and attack the poster's character and integrity instead. It really will help your point.

For the record, I've posted a new thread that has nothing but scripture in the OP. It's not "man's reasonings" that's at stake here. It's the clear teaching of Jesus.

Can't you see that I am not the only one who have a problem with the OP. Surely, you aren't blind, are you?

lismore · Apr 17, 2006

Strong in Him said:
I'm not posting anymore. I was last night, mainly out of sheer frustration that people weren't listening, just insulting. I can't be bothered now.

Dont worry. Your words did not fall to the ground for everyone

TreeOfLife · Apr 17, 2006

probinson said:
I always laugh when someone says something like "I could say you're a big doodie-head, but I'll resist that temptation". It's kinda like saying you're not posting anymore IN A POST.

Ahem.

All joking aside, I understand what you're saying. Have a great day (night?)

What's that suppose to mean? Whaaaaa! I'm taking my ball and going home!

JimfromOhio · Mar 17, 2007

Bump for this THREAD: What's wrong with the word of faith? what's right with the word of faith?

Job; Justification for our suffering, or a tale of victory?

De Oppresso Liber

Legend

Great is thy faithfulness

Legend

Great is thy faithfulness

John 3:16

Life of Trials :)

A son of God!

Life of Trials :)

A son of God!

Life of Trials :)

Legend

Legend

Great is thy faithfulness

Legend

Life of Trials :)

Life of Trials :)

Maranatha

A son of God!

Life of Trials :)

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