Jesus's Example -versus- The Bible

[MAMiller]

This is my greatest conflict and I would appreciate your thoughts and point of view. I belittle no ones belief system.

I find it hard to bring these two together. Jesus's example was that ocare, love, understanding, and compassion. Though he may not have agreed, he always seemed to approach people with such insight, knowing what was truly in their hearts. This comforts me ...

However, the Bible often speaks of condemnation, punishment, and judgment.

How is one's belief system to sort this out. I have always felt the example of Jesus was best, but am I choosing this because it is easier and therefore spares me and ensures my own redemption?

 

[kwimmer]

I don't see it as a conflict. Jesus did lead an example of care, love, understanding, and compassion, but he was it was not beyond him to call the Pharisees a brood of vipers or to turn over the money changers table's in the temples. What is right is right. It is right to have mercy and compassion, it is not to have evil appear as good.

Jesus spoke of condemnation too.

I think these are good words even if they are a bit difficult. This is from John 16.

5 "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, "Where are You going?' 6But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[MAMiller]

kwimmer: Yes I agree, perhaps I focus too much on Jesus's kindness and not as much on his own condemnation of wrong. I find it hard to understand his anger, because part of me only wishes to see him as absolute forgiveness, as opposed to the warnings.

This is the conflict I find in gay marriage. The goodness in me who wishes to follow Jesus's example wants to believe it is ok because if two people love each other, who am I to judge and condemn them. However I know the bible speaks against homosexuality. The goodness in me wants to ensure love and fairness, but the bible in me is constantly reminding my thoughts of condemnations of the past and how such complacency led to an over run of anything goes and sin. I guess I am having a hard time mixing the goodness and my own beliefs. How is one to overcome their own doubt. I can't really tell anyone to agree or disagree with me, I am confused. I want to burn hot, not cold or get stuck in neutral with my beliefs. However I truly love people and feel compassion for their own hearts, that I simply know nothing about and can not begin to understand.

 

[lukeliv]

MAMiller:

I see where you may be stuggling with the differences between Jesus' character and others that are portrayed in the Bible, especially when their seem to be conflicting messages.
There shouldn't be conflict concerning gay marriage if you follow Jesus' example over the other characterizations shown in the Bible. I am a strong follower in that which Jesus has taught and demonstrated for us to use as a beneficial example for all of our lives. But I do not believe that any other character (Paul, Peter, John, Moses, etc) ought to be given the credit of being able to teach exactly what Jesus would teach. Jesus is the only person capable of fully using God's will as a guideline for life. There are people in the Bible that say that homosexual behavior is a sin. On the other hand, Jesus has not made specific mention of it. We are to follow Jesus by the characteristics he has shown us: fairness, love, kindness, honesty, righteousness, faithfulness, etc. The characteristics that Jesus has taught us to have does not prohibit us from homosexual relationships. A homosexual can be just as Christ-like through their character as any other person. Thus, I conclude it is not wrong/unethical/sinful for people to act on their natural, God-given homosexual emotions.

 

[dnich163]

I find it hard to bring these two together. Jesus's example was that ocare, love, understanding, and compassion...................How is one's belief system to sort this out. I have always felt the example of Jesus was best............................... but am I choosing this because it is easier and therefore spares me and ensures my own redemption?

Hello MA,
I think it would be wrong to feel that following Jesus was or is easy.
We have to face up to some pretty hard and difficult issues.....loving our enemy..do good to those who hate you......making Jesus central in our lives...giving up all we have to follow him.

This is pretty tough, but good luck anyway.
David

 

[theseed]

God is loving and Just, and so we see a balance struck by God sending his own son to pay for our sins.

 

[BookerB]

I think conviction and condemnation are actually two different actions. Although those who do not believe in the Word of God (Jesus) are already condemned for their unbelief. The Word did not come into the world to condemn. "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." Nevertheless, many use the Word to beat others over the head in condemnation. But, we are also told: "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:"

I find it hard to bring these two together. Jesus's example was that ocare, love, understanding, and compassion. Though he may not have agreed, he always seemed to approach people with such insight, knowing what was truly in their hearts. This comforts me ...

However, the Bible often speaks of condemnation, punishment, and judgment.

How is one's belief system to sort this out. I have always felt the example of Jesus was best, but am I choosing this because it is easier and therefore spares me and ensures my own redemption?

Perhaps, understanding that Jesus brought forth a new dispensation that carried with it a plan for a mediator between God and man may comfort you. Therefore, the wrath of God is tempered by grace and mercy. We are not given what we so richly deserve, and yet we are given what we don't rightly deserve. Praise God!

 

[PatrickM]

MAMiller:

I see where you may be stuggling with the differences between Jesus' character and others that are portrayed in the Bible, especially when their seem to be conflicting messages.
There shouldn't be conflict concerning gay marriage if you follow Jesus' example over the other characterizations shown in the Bible. I am a strong follower in that which Jesus has taught and demonstrated for us to use as a beneficial example for all of our lives.

And did not Jesus say, "Do not think that i came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword," Matt. 10:34? Only man has tried to make Jesus' character one of mere passive love.

True love corrects the ones loved. As a father, I often needed to correct my children when they exhibited incorrect behavior.

But I do not believe that any other character (Paul, Peter, John, Moses, etc) ought to be given the credit of being able to teach exactly what Jesus would teach. Jesus is the only person capable of fully using God's will as a guideline for life.

Paul's letters are replete with his claim that he spoke the words of God. 1Thes.1:4,13, "But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak . . . when you received the word of God, which you heard from us . . . "

Titus 1:2b,3, "which God who cannot lie, . . . has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior."

There are people in the Bible that say that homosexual behavior is a sin. On the other hand, Jesus has not made specific mention of it.

But Jesus did make plain the simple plan for humanity when He said, "Have you not read that He who made them, at the beginning, 'made them male and female,' and said 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'"?

There is no need for "interpretation" here. "At the beginning, he made one male and one female. From there, the human race was to be perpetuated. It's only when we don't want to accept God's word, that we attempt to "read" into what He has plainly spoken.

We are to follow Jesus by the characteristics he has shown us: fairness, love, kindness, honesty, righteousness, faithfulness, etc.

Amen to this. And all these qualities apply to our relationship with God, as well. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments, be faithfull to His revealed word.

The characteristics that Jesus has taught us to have does not prohibit us from homosexual relationships. A homosexual can be just as Christ-like through their character as any other person. Thus, I conclude it is not wrong/unethical/sinful for people to act on their natural, God-given homosexual emotions.

It's not a matter of "characteristics", but of obedience. Romans 1:27 plainly states homosexuality is a sin. Only when one attempts to either look into the "historical" content, or "read into" these words, does confussion happen.

MAMiller, I do think God experiences the exact same feelings you are towards His creation. This is why the Bible says God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence.