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Jesus returning vs. lukewarm

powerheart

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I know of [Southern?] Baptists in my town who put down the second coming of Jesus and almost deny it and been primarily doing this for almost 15 years ! They say it has no real meaning and unimportant and I'm assuming this is not the 'normal' way of SBC people ? if you bring it up they quickly berade you or try to change the subject or shun you . Or rebuking you that it is not to be mentioned since nobody can know anything about it . Hopefully this is not considered normal Christianity today. I'm assuming these people are in a unusual comfort zone or overly content with their surrounding world .This can be coupled with lukewarmness as well.
 
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I have a question. When Jesus said he'd spit lukewarm "christians" out of his mouth, what did he mean? Does that mean they are going to hell?
I'll answer your question with a question. Are lukewarm Christians actually saved?
 
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sealacamp

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I know of Southern Baptists in my town who kock down the second coming of Jesus and almost deny it and been primarily doing this for almost 20 years ! They say it has no real meaning and unimportant and I'm assuming this is not the 'normal' way of SBC people ? if you bring it up they quickly berade you or try to change the subject or shun you . That seems unfair actually. or tell rebuking you that it is not to be mentioned since nobody can know anything about it . Hopefully this is not considered normal Christianity today. I'm assuming these people are in a unusual comfort zone or overly content with their surrounding world and I'd assume Satan likes it that way .This can be coupled with lukewarmness as well.


That is pretty crazy. I haven't run into that before at least not from any Christian. I wonder what is going on if that sort of thing is happening. Looks like the father of lies is making inroads where he should not be. Still it was prophesied that this kind of thing would happen, I guess it is just a sign post along the way, or at least that is what it seems to me.

Sealacamp
 
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religious&reasonable

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I'll answer your question with a question. Are lukewarm Christians actually saved?

I would think so, since to be a christian you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior.

But I really don't know, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
 
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I would think so, since to be a christian you need to accept Jesus as your lord and savior.

But I really don't know, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
Lukewarm Christians are people that put the their needs in this world above a relationship with Christ. In context, here is the scripture you reference:

Rev 3:16 - 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 - 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 - I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 - 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 - 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 - 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:22 - 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"
[NASB]

This is the Believer's Bible Commentary view on the passage:

3:15-17 - The church at Laodicea was neither cold nor hot. It was sickeningly lukewarm. The Lord would have preferred it to have been extreme in its indifference or its zeal. But no—it was lukewarm enough to deceive people into thinking that it was a church of God, and so disgustingly lukewarm about divine things as to nauseate the Most High. Furthermore, the church was characterized by pride, ignorance, self-sufficiency, and complacency.

3:18 - The people were counseled to buy from the Lord gold refined in the fire. This may mean divine righteousness, which is bought without money or price (Isaiah 55:1) but received as a gift through faith in the Lord Jesus. Or it may mean genuine faith, which when tested in the fire, results in praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:7).
Also the people were counseled to buy white garments, that is, practical righteousness in everyday life. And they should anoint their eyes with eye salve, that is, gain true spiritual vision through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. This counsel was especially appropriate, since Laodicea was known as a center for banking, textiles, and medicines—especially eye salve.

3:19 - The Lord's love for the church is seen in the fact that He rebukes and chastens it. If He did not care, He would not bother. With lingering tenderness, He calls on this nominal church to be zealous and repent.

3:20 - In the closing verses, we have what Scofield calls “the place and attitude of Christ at the end of the church age.” He is outside the professing church, politely knocking and inviting individuals (no longer the mass of the people) to leave the apostate church in order to have fellowship with Him.

Trench comments:
Every man is lord of the house of his own heart; it is his fortress; he must open the gates of it. He has the mournful prerogative and privilege of refusing to open. But if he refuses, he is blindly at strife with his own blessedness, a miserable conqueror.

3:21 - The overcomer is promised that he will share the glory of Christ's throne and reign with Him over the millennial earth. Those who follow Him in humility, rejection, and suffering will also follow Him in glory.

3:22 - Then for the last time, the hearer is solemnly advised to listen to the voice of the Spirit.

Whatever interpretation we take of the book of Revelation, it is undeniable that the church of Laodicea presents a vivid picture of the age in which we live. Luxury-living abounds on every hand while souls are dying for want of the gospel. Christians are wearing crowns instead of bearing a cross. We become more emotionally stirred over sports, politics, or television than we do over Christ. There is little sense of spiritual need, little longing for true revival. We give the best of our lives to the business world, then turn over the remnants of a wasted career to the Savior. We cater to our bodies which in a few short years will return to dust. We accumulate instead of forsake, lay up treasures on earth instead of in heaven. The general attitude is, “Nothing too good for the people of God. If I don't pamper myself, who will? Let's get ahead in the world and give our spare evenings to the Lord.” This is our condition on the eve of Christ's Return.


I believe the passage, in context, makes it clear that if we put the things of this world ahead of the Lord and do not repent, the Lord will not have anything to do with us in the world to come. At least, that's my opinion.
 
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religious&reasonable

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so that's a yes? I was just wondering.

But based on that commentary it would appear that some who I know who have been using the verse and phrase "lukewarm christian" have been using it incorrectly.

I was under the impression that a lukewarm christian was someone who did not agree with everything in the bible. Like say, if someone thought divorce was justifiable just if you no longer "love" your partner or whatever (just an example).

Does the term also apply to the above scenario? or i it only for what you described in placing your needs above Christ?
 
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powerheart

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Lukewarm Christians are people that put the their needs in this world above a relationship with Christ. In context, here is the scripture you reference:

Rev 3:16 - 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
Rev 3:17 - 'Because you say, "I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
Rev 3:18 - I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Rev 3:19 - 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
Rev 3:20 - 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Rev 3:21 - 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:22 - 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"
[NASB]

This is the Believer's Bible Commentary view on the passage:

3:15-17 - The church at Laodicea was neither cold nor hot. It was sickeningly lukewarm. The Lord would have preferred it to have been extreme in its indifference or its zeal. But no—it was lukewarm enough to deceive people into thinking that it was a church of God, and so disgustingly lukewarm about divine things as to nauseate the Most High. Furthermore, the church was characterized by pride, ignorance, self-sufficiency, and complacency.

3:18 - The people were counseled to buy from the Lord gold refined in the fire. This may mean divine righteousness, which is bought without money or price (Isaiah 55:1) but received as a gift through faith in the Lord Jesus. Or it may mean genuine faith, which when tested in the fire, results in praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:7).
Also the people were counseled to buy white garments, that is, practical righteousness in everyday life. And they should anoint their eyes with eye salve, that is, gain true spiritual vision through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. This counsel was especially appropriate, since Laodicea was known as a center for banking, textiles, and medicines—especially eye salve.

3:19 - The Lord's love for the church is seen in the fact that He rebukes and chastens it. If He did not care, He would not bother. With lingering tenderness, He calls on this nominal church to be zealous and repent.

3:20 - In the closing verses, we have what Scofield calls “the place and attitude of Christ at the end of the church age.” He is outside the professing church, politely knocking and inviting individuals (no longer the mass of the people) to leave the apostate church in order to have fellowship with Him.

Trench comments:
Every man is lord of the house of his own heart; it is his fortress; he must open the gates of it. He has the mournful prerogative and privilege of refusing to open. But if he refuses, he is blindly at strife with his own blessedness, a miserable conqueror.

3:21 - The overcomer is promised that he will share the glory of Christ's throne and reign with Him over the millennial earth. Those who follow Him in humility, rejection, and suffering will also follow Him in glory.

3:22 - Then for the last time, the hearer is solemnly advised to listen to the voice of the Spirit.

Whatever interpretation we take of the book of Revelation, it is undeniable that the church of Laodicea presents a vivid picture of the age in which we live. Luxury-living abounds on every hand while souls are dying for want of the gospel. Christians are wearing crowns instead of bearing a cross. We become more emotionally stirred over sports, politics, or television than we do over Christ. There is little sense of spiritual need, little longing for true revival. We give the best of our lives to the business world, then turn over the remnants of a wasted career to the Savior. We cater to our bodies which in a few short years will return to dust. We accumulate instead of forsake, lay up treasures on earth instead of in heaven. The general attitude is, “Nothing too good for the people of God. If I don't pamper myself, who will? Let's get ahead in the world and give our spare evenings to the Lord.” This is our condition on the eve of Christ's Return.


I believe the passage, in context, makes it clear that if we put the things of this world ahead of the Lord and do not repent, the Lord will not have anything to do with us in the world to come. At least, that's my opinion.
That seems the 'evening' right now or very close to it^ AND God I can see calling persons away from the Laodicean or apostate groups too. Not sure just how many good churches are in California .There must be a good few. But many are mesmerized by anything 'new' thinking it has to be from God. I think many areas have 'idols' that keep people from seeking God more and they get blindsided. Not that I can't have an idol too.
 
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LBP

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You must be living on Mars. I have attended Southern Baptist churches since 1970, and they are about as un-lukewarm as they could possibly be. I have never heard any Southern Baptist suggest that the Second Coming was unimportant -- it is at the forefront of their thought. Are you sure you are talking about Southern Baptists???
 
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powerheart

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You must be living on Mars. I have attended Southern Baptist churches since 1970, and they are about as un-lukewarm as they could possibly be. I have never heard any Southern Baptist suggest that the Second Coming was unimportant -- it is at the forefront of their thought. Are you sure you are talking about Southern Baptists???
Maybe if not all churches of the denomination are good ones, do not know .I am sure the eastern USA baptists are much better /but I'm in south California in a town very isolated out there. If you are from any place in other States I'm sure they are lively good churches. This lukewarmness maybe a rare thing. Sometimes a locality name no longer stands for it's truths.. If you bring up the second coming you get ,'we do not know the time', end of conversation .Why not let people get excited about His coming [what does it hurt ? ---I'd ask people. LBP does your churches you have been to really let people love Jesus and seek Him on Sundays I ask?? Do they let people look to Jesus individually and not rush them?
 
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so that's a yes? I was just wondering.

I tried to provide support both scriptural and via commentary to explain what a lukewarm Christian is. Other Christians may disagree. You'll have to do your own research and decide whether I'm right or not. Check out e-Sword.net and theWord.gr for free resources like bible versions and commentaries.

But based on that commentary it would appear that some who I know who have been using the verse and phrase "lukewarm christian" have been using it incorrectly.

I would not be surprised.

I was under the impression that a lukewarm christian was someone who did not agree with everything in the bible. Like say, if someone thought divorce was justifiable just if you no longer "love" your partner or whatever (just an example).

I would say that would indicate a more liberal view of scripture. (I don't mean liberal in the political sense.)

Does the term also apply to the above scenario? or i it only for what you described in placing your needs above Christ?

I believe you should have the following priorities in life: 1) God; 2) spouse; 3) children; 4); family; 5) job; and 6) church.
 
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powerheart

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You must be living on Mars. I have attended Southern Baptist churches since 1970, and they are about as un-lukewarm as they could possibly be. I have never heard any Southern Baptist suggest that the Second Coming was unimportant -- it is at the forefront of their thought. Are you sure you are talking about Southern Baptists???
I ask you if such Baptists will let you discuss or touch on as positive the second coming or maybe they think there was a bad time to mention it? Maybe it is I just do not agree suppressing it is all.
 
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That seems the 'evening' right now or very close to it^ AND God I can see calling persons away from the Laodicean or apostate groups too. Not sure just how many good churches are in California .There must be a good few. But many are mesmerized by anything 'new' thinking it has to be from God. I think many areas have 'idols' that keep people from seeking God more and they get blindsided. Not that I can't have an idol too.
It's not just California. Somehow, some "pastors" have it in their mind the words of God need to be revitalized, or reinterpreted for our modern world. You have made a keen observation.
 
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powerheart

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I tried to provide support both scriptural and via commentary to explain what a lukewarm Christian is. Other Christians may disagree. You'll have to do your own research and decide whether I'm right or not. Check out e-Sword.net and theWord.gr for free resources like bible versions and commentaries.



I would not be surprised.



I would say that would indicate a more liberal view of scripture. (I don't mean liberal in the political sense.)



I believe you should have the following priorities in life: 1) God; 2) spouse; 3) children; 4); family; 5) job; and 6) church.
In my town [and churches] some 'religious' people put priorities this way=1) CHURCH 2) JOB 3) spouse 4) maybe God or family but they also insinuate we should live that way ,so go figure?! So I sparingly 'fellowship' with those groups.. To many ,you are saved by the church services or in a pew /not by just Jesus doing it all on the cross..At one time it was just Jesus first in priority and not sure what happened here. Jesus ,who He is to many not even mentioned when others are sitting eating etc .I guess He is a kind of 'too busy Boss in the distance. Prayer is sped up and done very fast like a ritual. Maybe there's good behind this but I'm not sure? But I just need to be on my knees seeking Him . [one wonders if some day sermons will only be like 5 minutes long or worse] /I know I'm likely rocking boats.
 
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In my town [and churches] some 'religious' people put priorities this way=1) CHURCH 2) JOB 3) spouse 4) maybe God or family but they also insinuate we should live that way ,so go figure?! So I sparingly 'fellowship' with those groups.. To many ,you are saved by the church services or in a pew /not by just Jesus doing it all on the cross..At one time it was just Jesus first in priority and not sure what happened here. Jesus ,who He is to many not even mentioned when others are sitting eating etc .I guess He is a kind of 'too busy Boss in the distance. Prayer is sped up and done very fast like a ritual. Maybe there's good behind this but I'm not sure? But I just need to be on my knees seeking Him . [one wonders if some day sermons will only be like 5 minutes long or worse] /I know I'm likely rocking boats.
So, service to the Church is above Godly service, very sad. As I often said, I grew up as a Roman Catholic and attended parochial schools until college. My parents, ostensibly good Catholics, liked to attend the Saturday evening mass because it was short, and they could get in and out in 30 minutes. It was very Pharisaical of them. They followed man-made rules, but missed out on a personal relationship with their Messiah.
 
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