I asked about one story. More of an incident than a story, really.
I haven't done exhaustive studies about whatever you're referring to.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I asked about one story. More of an incident than a story, really.I have not yet gotten around to an exhaustive study of the miracles stories. Hey! I'm only 75, what do you expect?
I haven't done exhaustive studies about whatever you're referring to.But off the top of my head let me ask if you discard the miracle stories in pagan literature?
no conflicts, just different perspectives which provide different sets of perfectly compatible factsA) God is the unified author, and all scribes of scripture were directed by this unified provider (Yahweh), but somehow provided conflicting details from one author to the next ?
which were preservedThe same way I know of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc... Human told tales, writings, etc...
the whole point of the (alleged) interaction is God in heaven guiding humans to a better more humane futureWhy is the original text not preserved, if this was God's chosen vessel? Why allow for later scribes to piece bits together, interject, add, omit, gather such texts? Why rely upon humans to perform something in which they clearly blundered?
let's say that is true - God in heaven exists AND foments conflict on earth is perfectly possible scientificallyThe asserted messages from God are not clear, as He apparently allowed for scripture to be vague, instead of clear. Hence, the multiple denominations, subsets, wars/fighting/debates over general content, etc.... God appears to be the direct providing author of confusion.
not the storyYahweh sending a clone of himself down to earth 2,000 years ago, for people to believe in later, with no later evidence, or to instead burn forever, hardly sounds like a logical solution.
if reports of meaningful intelligible messages from God in heaven to earth are true, why should God have to repeat himself over and over? God tells Moses XYZ, Moses tells the next guy... Perfectly valid means of communicationAnd of course it is not 'fair and balanced'. The claim is that God speaks to a select few. Otherwise, God would speak to everyone whom asks equally and consistently.
Diocletian is well attested historicallyYou know this because....? Before Constantine, Christianity was a cult, like others circulating. Constantine made it law, Roman law. Writings were then encouraged. This is the beginning reason why we have many manuscripts now.
Please read Colin Humphreys, "the miracles of exodus". Approximately once per century or so a major earthquake. Shakes loose. Soil from the sides of the Jordan River. Causing cliffs to collapse, and temporarily dam the River.Haggadic Midrash was the traditional way the Jews and early Christians told their sacred stories. They saw no lie in this whatsoever. Perhaps an example will help illustrate my point.
In Exodus 14 we read that Moses parted the waters of the Reed Sea (yes, I did not say Red Sea) to lead the Hebrew people out of Egypt. In Joshua 3, we read that Joshua parted the waters of the Jordan River to lead the Hebrew people into the promised land. Did this event actually happen exactly as described? I suspect not. Certainly the river was crossed but the "parting of the waters" has it's most important meaning as a literary device linking Joshua to Moses. God's plan was being carried forward. This midrash of the parting of waters was used again in the Old Testament in 2 Kings 2 when the waters of the Jordan were parted by both the prophet Elijah and the prophet Elisha. This midrash is carried into the New Testament in Mark 1 when at the baptism of Jesus the heavens were parted to permit the descent of the Holy Spirit and God's words of benediction. The meaning is obvious…Jesus becomes the new Moses leading his people from an old life to a new. But Jesus is also portrayed as greater than Moses. For Moses, God only parted waters, but for Jesus, the very heavens were parted. When read for meaning, the historical accuracy of the event assumes little importance. It is when we of the twenty-first century read these stories without knowing their literary background that the mistake is made of assuming that the stories are historically true exactly as written.
"I want to tell you an incident of Washington’s life one which no one alive knows of except myself"Here is an example of a myth that sprang up about George Washington only 62 years after his death:
FACT CHECK: George Washington's Vision
Please read Colin Humphreys, "the miracles of exodus". Approximately once per century or so a major earthquake. Shakes loose. Soil from the sides of the Jordan River. Causing cliffs to collapse, and temporarily dam the River.
That allows people to cross downstream of the slide on. Mostly dry land. There is a perfectly possible plausible and over large time spans probable. Explanation for Joshua's Jordan Crossing.
The logistics problems entailed by an Exodus, as biblically described, are so formidable as to render it impossible. The bible suggests that 3 to 3.5 million people were involved. This would require 1500 tons of food daily and that would require two, mile long, freight trains daily. Who grew this food and where was it grown? That food needs to be cooked and that would require 4000 tons of wood daily to be carried by about six more mile long freight trains daily. Oh my, what about water? A conservative estimate is that 11,000,000 gallons were needed daily. To carry all this a train of tank cars 18 miles long would be required daily. The nightly camp would have to be roughly 750 square miles. Can you just imagine distributing all that food, wood and water in such a camp? For these reasons I believe that the bible account is mythological in nature. If there actually was an Exodus it must have been very much smaller --- perhaps a few hundred to a few thousand people. It also could have consisted of a number of these smaller migrations over several generations.
Probably so, it’s only human nature to do that sort of thing, but we can’t forget the Bible itself is Divinely inspired.
I understand what you’re saying, but it’s well-known that details regarding accounts of events differ. If they are from different perspectives it doesn’t necessarily make one right and one wrong, especially if the overall consensus is the same.
It was quite a task the writers had I think - on the one hand trying to summarise and make sense of Jesus’ 3 years of public teaching, and clarify what they understood to be the most important of them, and also to paint a picture of Jesus’ character and their own fumbling attempts to follow him, and on the other trying to recall or discover small details as authentically as they could. Quite a task! I do think the gospels have ‘personality’ though, and any later revisions or additions don’t take much away from that, I think.
His is regarded as 'The Greatest Story Ever Told.'
No, I didn't miss your point. There's a difference. Jesus' contemporaries would know if His story was a lie and I don't think they would have been willing to die for it.
Why would anyone have followed Jesus if they didn't think he was the Messianic fulfillment of those ancient prophecies...
I think @cvanwey 's whole point, is exactly that there is nothing else.If you do not believe the Bible, you would not believe anything else presented anyway.
So it is on you, an unbeliever and questioner, to provide credible period sources that contradict it, or it is you that has the groundless argument.
Jesus of history and myth.
Myth wins if sheer numbers alone mattered - more myth-believers than Jesus-followers.
But only Jesus-followers, born again, get to heaven. A pure heart is needed.
Does that matter to anyone ?
Until judgment day.It only matters in the heads of those who believe that.
Until judgment day.
And until then - righteousness peace and joy unspeakable and full of glory
for those who .... are given righteousness peace and joy AND salvation forever in Jesus.
So , daily, today, it matters positively for the few elect , the remnant. and negatively for everyone else. Same later.
Only believe !Uhu, uhu.
Cool story, bro
Only believe !
Father God ! Help Thou our unbelief !
I'ld expect that an all powerfull god who supposedly divinely inspired these people, to be able to do it in such a way that they manage to nail the message he wishes to communicate perfectly - without any contradictions.
I mean, how else with "mere inspiration" differ from "divine inspiration"?
Jonestown - Wikipedia
Jim Jones - Wikipedia
So I guess then that when Jones also began preaching that he was the reincarnation of Gandhi, Father Divine, Jesus, Gautama Buddha, and Vladimir Lenin, he was likely speaking the truth? After all, so many people died simply because the dude asked. In person. So they were eye-witnesses.
And that is in this day and age.
While you are talking about 2000 years ago, in a world where superstition was deeply rooted in society and religious beliefs dominated public life.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?