Jesus is my mother-a testimony

I agree with David.

Here's what I think Bene. Because of our human nature we tend to want to do everything ourselves.. convert people, convince people, argue argue... but God can do what we can not. KTS has shared her view. You have shared yours. I have shared mine. Now let's let God guide us according to what He knows is the truth here. We do not know more than Him. We don't know people's hearts either. Just let it be.

MoNiCa4316 said:

I see what you're saying that sometimes the terminology people use can be confusing so we should stick to the same terminology the Church officially uses. But if someone uses a different terminology, I think it's good to first ask - what do they MEAN? Do they really mean to say something heretical, or is it just their words that are giving us the wrong impression? I agree that we should try to always use clear terminology. But if our brother or sister does not, shouldn't we just be patient? I just see so much lecturing in this thread and I'm wondering if it's appropriate cause we ARE talking about something personal.

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I think the OP explained very well what was meant by such terminology. So no one was accusing the OP of heresy, just trying to inform and warn how such terminology can lead to wrong thinking, and that we need to be in conformity to the Church.

The proper response is to desire to come more fully into conformity, not resist it.

When someone offers their personal beliefs and understanding as meditation, and that belief and understanding has serious problems with it, we need to speak up to correct it. When someone puts their understanding and beliefs above that of the Church, even after correction, then there are problems.

There are serious issues with calling God "our mother" as we have already seen from our Pope and other points that have been brought up in the thread. We can't simply turn a blind eye - what about those who conscience is not formed well enough, and given all the feminist inclusive language trying to remake God as "mother", it can point them in that direction.

It is not innocuous.

We were very clear the issue was about the terminology only.

She was not just sharing- she was instructing, a "new vision."

I'm done, y'all can make up what ever y'all want and teach it to whom ever- don't care.

Amylisa said:

Wonderful post, Monica. You show more wisdom in your compassion than most seem to around here.

without love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....

A lot of so-called correction here is more clanging and pride if anything. Not much love, that's for sure.

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Compassionate thing to let ppl fall into New Ageism and gnosticism, real compassion. Next time i see someone about to walk into on coming traffic, I'll just let them go, don't want to be discompassionate by stopping them.

benedictaoo said:

what?.. are you? can you say that there is no error in making this claim and then teaching it to us?

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we disagree on what it is she is teaching.

Amylisa said:

Wonderful post, Monica. You show more wisdom in your compassion than most seem to around here.

without love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal....

A lot of so-called correction here is more clanging and pride if anything. Not much love, that's for sure.

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I've hurt people lots with my words. I hope God helps me change that. I think that when we try to correct others often times it's just to make ourselves feel a certain way.. well maybe that's just me lol. I think God can correct people better than we can. What we can do though is say the truth, proclaim it, but "with a certain congeniality" as St Catherine of Sienna said

God will judge us by one thing. Charity. Whatever truth we know is a gift. He won't give us rewards in heaven because we knew more than someone else. He cares about what we do with our knowledge, and more than anything.. do we love? I pray that God teaches us all how to love. I hope He teaches me how to love.

God bless

benedictaoo said:

Compassionate thing to let ppl fall into New Ageism and gnosticism, real compassion. Next time i see someone about to walk into on coming traffic, I'll just let them go, don't want to be discompassionate by stopping them.

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in my experience lecturing people doesn't lead them to the truth.

When I was a Protestant, you know what Catholics drew me the most to the Church. It was those who told me that they consider me their sister and that I know God too.

it's a real paradox sometimes.

we bring people to Christ, and to the Church, simply by being loving. Preach always, when necessary use words (St Francis)

Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands around you will be saved (an Orthodox Saint whose name escapes me at the moment... sorry!! but it's a good quote )

benedictaoo said:

Compassionate thing to let ppl fall into New Ageism and gnosticism, real compassion. Next time i see someone about to walk into on coming traffic, I'll just let them go, don't want to be discompassionate by stopping them.

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KTS has spoken against Gnosticism in occasions.. what do you mean?

and New Ageism - again, I don't think she means what you think she means, I'll leave it at that.

Here is another good quote mon:

2 Tim 2:23-26 "Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to ever one, an apt teacher, forebearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."

I pray to learn to live by that scripture when it comes to the tongue.

Scripture tells us that no man can tame the tongue but I believe it is the measure of the man in how he attempts it.

When we try to consume one another with words I think we miss the message of the Gospel and I find such quarrels to be spiritually unhealthy.

I'm not lecturing and neither is TLF. Like i said if peeps were just open to being corrected, none of this would be happening.

Note how TLF always posts documented reputable sources, she never speaks on her own but then y'all get on her for posting the quotes.

can't win for losing around here, every one knows everything, and we know nothing.

MoNiCa4316 said:

in my experience lecturing people doesn't lead them to the truth.

When I was a Protestant, you know what Catholics drew me the most to the Church. It was those who told me that they consider me their sister and that I know God too.

it's a real paradox sometimes.

we bring people to Christ, and to the Church, simply by being loving. Preach always, when necessary use words (St Francis)

Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands around you will be saved (an Orthodox Saint whose name escapes me at the moment... sorry!! but it's a good quote )

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"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved."
~Saint Seraphim of Sarov

MoNiCa4316 said:

KTS has spoken against Gnosticism in occasions.. what do you mean?

and New Ageism - again, I don't think she means what you think she means, I'll leave it at that.

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Never said it is what she meant- said she worded it wrong.

When I was on the bus going home half an hour ago, a thought came to my mind.

I'm not going to talk about who's right and who's wrong in this thread. But something else..

Imagine that TONIGHT the world ends and we're all in Heaven, meeting the Lord. Imagine Jesus greeting us and giving each one of us a hug. And..how would we see each other then? If asked, what would we say about each other?

I imagine - and this is pure speculation - that we'd say something like.. oh look there's KTS!! Isn't it wonderful how she's so grateful for what Jesus has done for her! And TLF and Bene!! They're so passionate about the Church! etc.

In other words, we'd see the good in each other wouldn't we.

I think that this is a good model of how we should treat each other here on earth. Because we are in the Lord's presence here too, and we even receive Him into ourselves every Sunday if we're so fortunate.

You know what rocks.. lol.. just seeing the good in people. Remembering our own sins and flaws, remembering who we are without God's grace, but not paying too much attention to the flaws of others. Because if we do this, we'll be tempted to pride. Sure everyone has flaws. But - love does not remember past wrongs..

This doesn't mean that we are to pay no attention to sin and error. It is fine, and right, to be concerned that someone is going in the wrong direction. If they are, we should tell them this, but only once.. don't push it.. and then let God act. Pray for them. Offer little sacrifices for them. Be their friend.. be kind.. and they'll see, eventually. If we push the truth on them, they'll just turn away even more. And if there's something in their heart that prevents them from accepting the truth fully, the demons might even use that and attack them. They'll be worse off than they were before. Love always leads to good... so let's love one another as Christ siad! If you think that someone is wrong, pray for them... don't keep on telling them they're wrong.. just tell them the truth once, and then give them to God. He knows what to do. And after praying, forget their flaws and remember your own, and when you talk to them keep in mind everything that's good about them. Assume the best, not the worst.

That's just speculation and my opinion. But I think this is the safest thing to do. It's safest for our souls and for the souls of our brothers/sisters.

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm lecturing here. That's not my intent. I was just on the bus and this thought came to me and I felt like sharing it. I might be wrong though.

God bless

JoabAnias said:

Here is another good quote mon:

2 Tim 2:23-26 "Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to ever one, an apt teacher, forebearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."

I pray to learn to live by that scripture when it comes to the tongue.

Scripture tells us that no man can tame the tongue but I believe it is the measure of the man in how he attempts it.

When we try to consume one another with words I think we miss the message of the Gospel and I find such quarrels to be spiritually unhealthy.

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Annabel Lee said:

"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved."
~Saint Seraphim of Sarov

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yes that is it!

benedictaoo said:

Never said it is what she meant- said she worded it wrong.

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oh - well I'm sure there are so many things we all word incorrectly every day!

Amy, take heart, Jesus understands.. we can't ever rely on people to fully understand us, because - that is very difficult, and we ourselves don't understand others perfectly. I think that there are Catholics who would agree with you too, in fact there are some in this thread it seems like the responses have been really mixed.

About your stories, I'm not sure which one you're referring to.. but it doesn't sound like something I'd be against. In our society we're so used to such imagery being ..well, between couples.. it seems we've been conditioned to that in a way.. whenever it's applied to Christ people get freaked out. But I think the Saints understood. Especially St John of the Cross, St Teresa of Avila, and other mystics of the Church.

God bless

and that is an awesome video!

I dig this live version b y Simon and Garfunkel :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKJuDxYr3Ihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYKJuDxYr3I

Monica; KTS; All,

I apologize for my rudeness last night. I was in a foul mood and had no patience what so ever. I have no business engaging when I am in that kind of mood.

However, I do feel the same.

KTS, No one misunderstood you. We have said repeatedly that we get the sentiments and do not disagree.

It is how you choose to word it and choose to present it to us in an authoritative instructional manner.

I have a huge problem with the way you just do not listen to any criticism what so ever and how you take offense when any criticism is offered. Not being open to correction is a problem and I will leave it at that and say no more.

There is nothing wrong at all with having a discussion and sharing ones experience/testimony of how Jesus has acted as a mother to us.

There is plenty wrong with taking that experience to a whole nother level by teaching it as a "new vision," that Jesus is "our mother" in heaven and is a greater mother then Mary.

There is nothing wrong with citing the writings of a mystic approved by the Church, there is plenty wrong when they are being used to suporrt a new vision this in unorthodox.

So I hope we are clear. No one says you are wrong for sharing your experiences of how Jesus mothered you when you needed it.

We disagree for good reason with much of the language used to express this and how it went on to teach us a new vision of Jesus being a heavenly mother.

He may have been a heavenly mother to you when you needed it, but he is *the* heavenly mother sitting in heaven over us all. Mary is.

And you can't say Mary is our mother but Jesus is the greater mother. That may be true for you but it is not a universal truth that needs to be taught.

Monica;

One point i wish to get across to you. We can not simply let ppl believe things that are not true just for the sake charity. We need to be charitable in how we address it but we can not allow ppl to believ things that are not true just becuase it makes them feel good to believe them.

And of course i know i need to work on patience and charity. It is like, totally my downfall.