Jesus is God?

[Tellyontellyon]

Mark 13:32
However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

This makes no sense. If Jesus is God then he must know what God knows.
If Jesus has two natures, a God nature and a Human nature, then the Human nature has a different mind to the God nature... that's two people in one body, not one person. In that case Jesus the Human is not God... and whatever it was that died on the cross was not God.
This Trinity thing just doesn't work.

 

[Tra Phull]

The Son knows now.
There were ways He was different before resurrection/glorification; else He would not have said"glorify me with the glory I had before the world began".
Trinity works.

 

[pescador]

Mark 13:32
However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

This makes no sense. If Jesus is God then he must know what God knows.
If Jesus has two natures, a God nature and a Human nature, then the Human nature has a different mind to the God nature... that's two people in one body, not one person. In that case Jesus the Human is not God... and whatever it was that died on the cross was not God.
This Trinity thing just doesn't work.

Can you spell sophistry? "Sophistry is the deliberate use of a false argument with the intent to trick someone or a false or untrue argument."

 

[friend of]

Yeah but he said that before he ascended to heaven

 

[Tellyontellyon]

The Son knows now.
There were ways He was different before resurrection/glorification; else He would not have said"glorify me with the glory I had before the world began".
Trinity works.

So he was God, then not God, then God again??

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Can you spell sophistry?

You accuse me? Point out the sophistry.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Yeah but he said that before he ascended to heaven

So he wasn't God until he ascended?

 

[Tra Phull]

No, He was always God; but while on earth, before his death, rebirth and glorification, there are some things explained in

Phillipians 2:5-8

 

[BrotherJJ]

OP question: Jesus is God?

What does scripture say?

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
(NOTE: It's John the Baptist that is send to Prepare ye the way of the LORD/God. Matt 11:10, Mk 1:2, Lk 7:27)

Isa 9:6 Unto us a child is born, a son is given & the government shall be upon his shoulder: his name shall (Future tense) be called Wonderful, Counsellor ""The mighty God"" Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
(NOTE: Each Capitalized name in Isa 9:6. Is a TITLE, each title represents a different attribute of the Son that shall be given. Christ the Creator/God Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6. Holds every TITLE mentioned above)

Micah 5:2 Bethlehem, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, ""from everlasting""
(NOTE: Jesus, born in Bethlehem Matt 2:1, 2:5-6 & Jn 7:42. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah Rev 5:5 & Matt 2:5-6. King of the Jews Matt 2:2, Rev 17:14 & 19-16. He's from everlasting, HAS NO BEGINING, Heb 7:3, Jn 1:1)

Isa 7:14 Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive & bear a son & shall call his name Immanuel
(NOTE: Immanuel means > God with us)

Matt 1:23 A virgin shall be with child & shall bring forth a son & they shall call his name Emmanuel, interpreted is, "God with us"
(NOTE: Isa & Matt call the virgin child God. John 8:17 Jesus says; It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true).

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word & the Word was with God & "the Word was God"
(NOTE: Rev 19:13 identifies Jesus as the Word of God & the Word is God)

Jn 20:28 Thomas said, "My Lord & my God"

Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers & of whom as concerning the flesh "Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever"

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope & the glorious appearing of "the great God & Savior Jesus Christ"

Heb. 1:8 Unto the Son he saith, Thy throne "O God" is for ever

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: "God was manifest in the flesh", justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rev 1:8 Jesus said; I am Alpha & Omega, the beginning & the ending, says the Lord, which is & was & which is to come "the Almighty"

4 verses: ALL things came into being, All things exist thru & were created by Jesus Christ


1) John 1:3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

2) 1 Cor 8:6 Jesus Christ, by whom are all things & we exist through Him

3) Col 1:16 (A) By Him all things were created, both in the heavens & on earth (C) all things have been created by Him and for Him

4) 17 He is before all things & by him all things consist

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

God breathed scripture proclaims: Jesus is God!

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Phillipians 2:5-8

So when Jesus humbled himself, does that mean he was pretending not to know what the Father knows, or be really didn't know... Separate minds means they are separate persons... I can't understand it otherwise?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

God breathed scripture proclaims: Jesus is God!

Yet despite all the prophesy and announcements, Jesus didn't know what God knows. Therefore, he wasn't God.

 

[redleghunter]

Yet despite all the prophesy and announcements, Jesus didn't know what God knows. Therefore, he wasn't God.

No. Jesus never said He did not know what God knew.

Perhaps this will be of assistance:

 

[Paul4JC]

1Ti 3:16 ESV - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

 

[Lukaris]

I could not find homilies on Mark from the ancient preacher St. John Chrysostom ( 5th c.) but he does have homilies on Matthew & Matthew 24:32-51 in particular. Further particular is Matthew 24:36 which matches Mark 13:32.

Anyway, basically St. John Chrysostom is saying that God is forbidding men to know the precise time of the final judgment. The main reason is that our sense of faith would not be genuine, spontaneous, heartfelt etc. & not a free will response. Speaking in His humanity, the Lord basically says it is not for man to know.

See (homily 77): CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 77 on Matthew (Chrysostom)

 

[BrotherJJ]

Yet despite all the prophesy and announcements, Jesus didn't know what God knows. Therefore, he wasn't God.

Scriptures posted in thread #9 disagree with your comments/position. Best wishes, JJ.

 

[pescador]

You accuse me? Point out the sophistry.

"If Jesus has two natures, a God nature and a Human nature, then the Human nature has a different mind to the God nature... that's two people in one body, not one person. In that case Jesus the Human is not God... and whatever it was that died on the cross was not God.
This Trinity thing just doesn't work."

There is nothing in Scripture that even hints that Jesus has two "natures", so the rest of your argument is fallacious.

 

[Tolworth John]

This makes no sense. If Jesus is God then he must know what God knows.

It does make sense when one puts all the pieces together.
We are told that Jesus limited himself, he clearly was not like the fissions of God seen elsewhere in the Bible, he clearly was not Omnipresent, nor could he move faster than any other human. So the assumption that he also limited his knowledge is reasonable.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Scriptures posted in thread #9 disagree with your comments/position. Best wishes, JJ.

But the don't address the contradiction, they assert godliness, but they don't explain the incongruity of an ignorant God?

 

[Tellyontellyon]

There is nothing in Scripture that even hints that Jesus has two "natures", so the rest of your argument is fallacious.

But isn't it Christian doctrine that he is fully God and fully man?

So do you say he's God or he's a man?

 

[pescador]

It does make sense when one puts all the pieces together.
We are told that Jesus limited himself, he clearly was not like the fissions of God seen elsewhere in the Bible, he clearly was not Omnipresent, nor could he move faster than any other human. So the assumption that he also limited his knowledge is reasonable.

No it's not at all reasonable. John 1:1-5, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it.

Jesus was, is, and will be fully God. He has always had unlimited knowledge and power. After, He created the world!