Jesus did not evolve & Evidence Doesn't Mean Anything

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

First of all, this should be some people slogan, or a hammer to their proverbial mind: Jesus did not evolve.

And, if Jesus did not evolve, neither did anyone else.


Now, on evidence, the world likes to talk about evidence they have for all sorts of things. You should remember evidence can be faked by spiritual powers (good and bad). I would say, yes, there is evidence for dinosaurs and astro and quantum physics, and human biology and so on. There is a lot of evidence for evolution. But, any manner of evidence may be faked by spiritual powers (good or bad, but probably bad).

The anti-christ powers, said to be powerful and mysterious, was at work "already" two thousand years ago. They have had two thousand years to fake evidence.

Just because some principles work to give us our modern technology does not mean the actual theories - and even evidence - behind these theories are true.

Don't be small minded and think God and Satan have to fit to your preconceptions of their limitations. Especially not in terms of intellect.

 

[mozo41]

how do we discern what is true without some kind of confirmation ...

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

how do we discern what is true without some kind of confirmation ...

No signs? Joking.

No, very seriously, you have to make your choices. There can be fake evidence, we know this, we were told this, for instance, about and from the anti-christ. Whom we were told was already working his dark magic millennia ago.

For the most part, we do not need to know. Nothing inherently bad about the technology we have, even if some of it is a fraud. Really, people today can conceptualize us being in a virtual reality, albeit deduced from the observations humans have made usually using advanced math and instruments (for seeing the very small & the very large).

You can juggle theories without swearing by heaven or earth on them. (A mistake people often make, thinking they actually have to use the word "swear" to swear, which is absurd and so convenient for them. People believe what they want to believe based on their preferences.)

I know the theories and the evidence, but I don't believe the evidence necessarily is "real" or really proves anything. Even if it is false evidence and you can use that to make something else, so what.

As for things of God, we have the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, which is Most Holy, backing all that up.

Sketchy interpretations on difficult to solve metaphors and puzzling visions & dreams aside.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

how do we discern what is true without some kind of confirmation ...

I might add here, to my above post, but worth a second one:

The unsureness inherent in the scientific method is good. Something Christians, sadly, often throw out, no small part because they ignore the statement about swearing by heaven, earth, the city (jerusalem, metaphorically, at least), or by their own head.

But, the scientific method is also flawed. It assume objectivity is possible. We now know, by, ironically, the scientific method, this is not always the case. And may never be the case. For instance, via "hypnosis" research, such as via fMRI, and the glorious case of light being either a particle or a wave.

Jesus also effectively taught subjectivity in his teachings on faith, but that is more complicated and obtuse to go into here.

 

[mozo41]

truth is singular and therefor continually expands by remaining the same, whereas a lie is dual and continually changes because of its measurement ....

 

[ViaCrucis]

Individuals don't "evolve". Populations of organisms evolve over time.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[joshua 1 9]

First of all, this should be some people slogan, or a hammer to their proverbial mind: Jesus did not evolve.

And, if Jesus did not evolve, neither did anyone else.


Now, on evidence, the world likes to talk about evidence they have for all sorts of things. You should remember evidence can be faked by spiritual powers (good and bad). I would say, yes, there is evidence for dinosaurs and astro and quantum physics, and human biology and so on. There is a lot of evidence for evolution. But, any manner of evidence may be faked by spiritual powers (good or bad, but probably bad).

The anti-christ powers, said to be powerful and mysterious, was at work "already" two thousand years ago. They have had two thousand years to fake evidence.

Just because some principles work to give us our modern technology does not mean the actual theories - and even evidence - behind these theories are true.

Don't be small minded and think God and Satan have to fit to your preconceptions of their limitations. Especially not in terms of intellect.

We have evidence that is usually not fake. Then man of science make up a story to tell us about the evidence we have. Their job is to gather the evidence not interpret it. We should be grateful for the work they do to gather the evidence so that those who know God can tell the story and explain the evidence that we now have.

"To the person who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind." Ecc2:26

 

[joshua 1 9]

Individuals don't "evolve". Populations of organisms evolve over time.

According to the atheists "selfish genes" evolve.

 

[mark kennedy]

According to the atheists "selfish genes" evolve.

An itinerant selfish gene
Said ‘bodies a plenty I’ve seen.
You think your so cleaver
But I’ll live for ever
Your just a survival machine (Richard Dawkins)​

The selfish gene is a classic Darwinian clutch phrase. What we see in the living world is a struggle for stasis, not survival.

 

[NobleMouse]

First of all, this should be some people slogan, or a hammer to their proverbial mind: Jesus did not evolve.

Thank you for this post, and I agree. Biblical creationists' position, from what I currently understand, is that the general theory of evolution (facilitating molecules-to-man, sometimes called "macroevolution"), is nowhere unequivocally evident in the fossil record or within genetic information (DNA), nor has it been reproduced under the optimally controlled conditions of a laboratory environment. It is an unobserved, extension of what is observable - created kinds adapting to the environment with the occasional development of new species/subspecies (or extinction of a species/subspecies) within the boundaries of each kind.

Both camps (creationists and evolutionists) have their unique sets of presupposed ideas and assumptions that they build their framework upon. As the name implies, biblical creationist scientists build their framework off of the bible (not a bad idea). A common argument against the bible as it relates to the topic of origins is that it was written by men with very limited scientific knowledge. I have two issues with this: [1] the bible was penned by men, but it is the word of God breathed out and inspired by the Holy Spirit, so the source is God, not men, and [2] we're not after a scientific explanation of our origin, we're after the truth. Scientific study has the possibility to reveal "truth", but is not the only way. As @mozo41 pointed out, truth is singular and never changes (the word of God) whereas what is not true and will change continually - and I read about scientific theories around origins changing regularly - such is the nature of scientific study.

Now, your and my birth certificate is not particularly "scientific" but gives the date of birth, the approximate time of day, the name of the mother (and father if present), the name of the hospital, etc... It is true. In the same sense, God has told us the details of what He wanted us to know with regard to His creating us, when, where, how, etc... It is true and will remain true even when all else falls away.

God bless and hope to see this discussion continue!

 

[JackRT]

Individuals don't "evolve". Populations of organisms evolve over time.

-CryptoLutheran

Evolution is the change in the frequency of alleles in a population over time.

 

[mozo41]

Thank you for this post, and I agree. Biblical creationists' position, from what I currently understand, is that the general theory of evolution (facilitating molecules-to-man, sometimes called "macroevolution"), is nowhere unequivocally evident in the fossil record or within genetic information (DNA), nor has it been reproduced under the optimally controlled conditions of a laboratory environment. It is an unobserved, extension of what is observable - created kinds adapting to the environment with the occasional development of new species/subspecies (or extinction of a species/subspecies) within the boundaries of each kind.

Both camps (creationists and evolutionists) have their unique sets of presupposed ideas and assumptions that they build their framework upon. As the name implies, biblical creationist scientists build their framework off of the bible (not a bad idea). A common argument against the bible as it relates to the topic of origins is that it was written by men with very limited scientific knowledge. I have two issues with this: [1] the bible was penned by men, but it is the word of God breathed out and inspired by the Holy Spirit, so the source is God, not men, and [2] we're not after a scientific explanation of our origin, we're after the truth. Scientific study has the possibility to reveal "truth", but is not the only way. As @mozo41 pointed out, truth is singular and never changes (the word of God) whereas what is not true and will change continually - and I read about scientific theories around origins changing regularly - such is the nature of scientific study.

Now, your and my birth certificate is not particularly "scientific" but gives the date of birth, the approximate time of day, the name of the mother (and father if present), the name of the hospital, etc... It is true. In the same sense, God has told us the details of what He wanted us to know with regard to His creating us, when, where, how, etc... It is true and will remain true even when all else falls away.

God bless and hope to see this discussion continue!

evolution is the effect life has on matter

 

[joshua 1 9]

The selfish gene is a classic Darwinian clutch phrase.

Yes but the theory Dawkins-Gould are trying to supress has to do with synergy. They have done a pretty good job because atheistic evolution tends to dominate theistic evolution. Even though it is a counterfeit forgery of what is real.

 

[Tayla]

Just because some principles work to give us our modern technology does not mean the actual theories - and even evidence - behind these theories are true.

Yes, you can't determine anything about the past using science. There is no way to perform experiments to falsify the hypothesis. The best you can do is make up stories, which is exactly what science does.

 

[JackRT]

Yes, you can't determine anything about the past using science. There is no way to perform experiments to falsify the hypothesis. The best you can do is make up stories, which is exactly what science does.

The three main scientific disciplines of physics, chemistry and biology are becoming increasingly well understood and we can apply them to the evidence of the past in the stones and the bones and the stars to better understand the past. That understanding may be imperfect but with more and more evidence that uncertainty becomes less and less. It is much like forensics on a much longer time scale.

 

[JackRT]

And, if Jesus did not evolve, neither did anyone else.

People do not evolve. Populations of people do evolve. Jesus was a human person.

 

[Tayla]

The three main scientific disciplines of physics, chemistry and biology are becoming increasingly well understood and we can apply them to the evidence of the past in the stones and the bones and the stars to better understand the past. That understanding may be imperfect but with more and more evidence that uncertainty becomes less and less. It is much like forensics on a much longer time scale.

They are getting better and better at making up sophisticated sounding stories. But there is no proof at all, just stories.

 

[Tayla]

The three main scientific disciplines of physics, chemistry and biology are becoming increasingly well understood and we can apply them to the evidence of the past in the stones and the bones and the stars to better understand the past. That understanding may be imperfect but with more and more evidence that uncertainty becomes less and less. It is much like forensics on a much longer time scale.

That's a fair analysis.

 

[The Barbarian]

First of all, this should be some people slogan, or a hammer to their proverbial mind: Jesus did not evolve.

And, if Jesus did not evolve, neither did anyone else.

Very true. Individuals do not evolve. Populations do.

Now, on evidence, the world likes to talk about evidence they have for all sorts of things. You should remember evidence can be faked by spiritual powers (good and bad). I would say, yes, there is evidence for dinosaurs and astro and quantum physics, and human biology and so on. There is a lot of evidence for evolution. But, any manner of evidence may be faked by spiritual powers (good or bad, but probably bad).

So some evil power could have faked nature or the Bible to fool us? A universe in which such deceptions are possible would be the creation of a malignant demon, not a loving God.