Jesus - 2'nd Adam - No Sin - Could he die?

[TheScottsMen]

Could Christ die before he was made to be sin?

Whats your thoughts?
Two of my fav theologions disagree.

Dakes - Yes he could
Kenyon - Nope

What about you?

 

[Bro_Brown11233]

CHRIST NEVER SINNED

 

[TheScottsMen]

2 Corinthians 5:21: "Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him."

I never said he sinnned if you read my first post. Nor do I think anyone else thought i ment that. If you disagree that he was to be "made sin", disagree with Paul, not me.

Anyways, off topic. Whats eveyones view? Could Christ die before the cross?

 

[Iddie4him]

Christ was born without Sin, But, He took our sin on his shoulders and was crucified with that, So that we would be forgiven of our Sin and also that we would be cleansed of said sin and washed clean by his Blood. So, He was born without Sin and was made to Sin by taking ours away from us. Did I say that the right way ?

 

[TheScottsMen]

I agree.. But do you think he could die before the cross? Christ had never sinned and had never been born into sin. He was perfect.

 

[Andrew]

Jesus would still be walking the earth today had he not laid done his life for us by choice.

Without the effects of the Adamic fall (born of th virgin Mary) and without having comitted any sin (as long as he does not -- he cannot), His body was physically perfect and would never decay or die.

Just like Adam (only better since he was THE Son of God) — created not to die and to live forever physically. But Eve and Adam spoiled all that thru sin!

 

[sandman]

TheScottsMen



I am with Kenyon…………… This is why

They never took Christ life He gave it up. Several times they sought to kill him but His time was not yet. Jesus Christ gave up his life for your redemption and mine. He who knew no sin became sin for us. The second Adam, Jesus Christ, fulfilled all the legal requirements for our redemption and salvation as Matthew 27:46 states “for this purpose was I reserved, was I kept.”

It could not have been finished at any other time due to Old Testament prophecy being fulfilled.

Then John records some of His final words “It is finished”

What was it that was finished ………………our redemption and salvation. After which He gave up the ghost. Nobody took his life, none of the sufferings nor the beatings or the nails through his body took his life. “Who for the joy that was set before Him”……………………



I felt I should clarify that scripture in Matthew so I have copied this from another thread I posted it on, which gives a short explanation of the scripture.



Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
The word one hen neuter, means “one in purpose”
How could they be one in purpose….. and have God forsake Him on the cross; doesn’t make any sense.

How about II Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…
How could God be in Christ and forsake him?

John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me


Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels
God would give Jesus more than 72,000 angles. At any point Jesus could have walked away with a massive amount of spiritual body guards.

So how do we reconcile these scriptures with Matthew 27:46 it would appear to be a contradiction of terms.
It has been said that God hated sin so much that he had to turn away during the final moments of His only begotten sons life…..I don't think so...

One of the principles of biblical research is when you have several clear verses, and one that seemingly contradicts those clear then it is either in our understanding, or in translation…..In this case it is translation.

The words Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani are Aramaic, that is the language Jesus spoke
There is no such Aramaic word as lama however there is a word lmna which is a declaration as in “for this reason” or “for this purpose”
The word sabachthani comes from the root word shbk which means “to spare, or to keep, to leave, or reserve”. The word remaining in the following verses have all been translated from shbk II Kings 10:11, Deuteronomy 3:3, Joshua 10:33
Literally this should read Eli, Eli, lmna sabachthani that is to say, “My God, My God, for this reason, or for this purpose was I reserved, or spared”.
For this purpose Christ came into this world, the purpose of redemption.


Now that would be an interesting study if we left it there…but wait let’s put some icing on the cake

From the Peshitta Text this reads Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani “My God, My God, for this I was spared or this was my destiny”.

Another interesting fact: all eastern Bibles have “for this purpose I was spared” while the Occidental translations read “why hast thou forsaken me”….wonder why that is?



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I am familiar with Kenyon, what is Dakes argument?



{If there is any question on that which I posted please PM me so we don’t derail this thread.}

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God bless

sandman

 

[altya]

Very good answer!! Sandman

 

[IKTCA]

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[Unix]

Jesus dying on the cross was when he won satan. Jesus did not purchase [from satan], He *won*