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Cantuar said:This mindset is really disturbing. They can stop people disagreeing with them in real time, but that doesn't alter the fact that the arguments against their positions still exist. They seem to think that if dissenters are silenced, the dissenting opinon itself is vanquished. Putting that together with the fact that this movement has a large political component, I think we can see what sort of goverment they have in mind for when they're the ones in power.
Captain Jackson said:I'm just going to say that the terms used to describe people (Creationists, YEC, OEC, theistic evolutionist, ect) are bothering me. I think they overgeneralizations, and make it very easy to sterotype people according to their views.
Micaiah said:You arguments are a gross distortion of the truth. The sad thing is I really think you fail to recognise this.
Exactly. This is what makes creationism scary. Of course, I think militant atheists will put together the same type of government! Science can only survive if the reasonable people -- theists, agnostics, and atheists -- unite and drive back the fanatics at either extreme.
Cantuar said:Yes, I'm sure militant atheists are as ruthless as any other militants, but it does seem to be the case that deletion, editing, warnings, and suspensions of pro-evolution posters on Christian discussions boards is depressingly common (this board being a refreshing exception). On the other hand, the II board doesn't seem to treat creationists and other theists nearly so dismissively. They can get booted for breaking the rules, but it seems like athiests or pro-evolution supporters who are theists are given a hard time on some of those Christian boards just because they disagree with the theistic position.
EBI - Evil Bible-Interpretorslucaspa said:Christianbeginning, welcome to the evil theistic evolution and non-literal Genesis conspiracy! (We have to get a snappier name for this) Check the posts by Vance, Mike Flynn, Karl, seebs, notto, myself, etc. and you will find that we have all reached the same conclusions you have.
The only difference is that I have taken your conclusions about creationists further to the point that I submit they have made a false idol out of their literal interpretation and worship it instead of God.
Can you tell us what the fall of man, leaving the garden of eden, and original sin represent. Also, who is Kane and Abel suposed to represent?Arikay said:It was supposed to be taken literally. its the adam part that wasn't.
Two interpretations,
1) if adam and eve represents the very first humans, and the first animals with a soul, then they most likely represent a group, but its a group we all are linked too, you, me, jesus, etc. We can still be linked to them like this and not have them be 2 literal people that lived 6000 years ago. The genealogies link us to these 2 symbolic people instead of explaining our full linkage through the years because its trying to get accross a spiritual point and not give us data.
2) If Adam and Eve represent every human that ever lived (as a symbol of our souls and our nature) then we are all linked to this symbolic Adam and Eve. They are born in all of us, and pick the fruit in all of us. So the genealogies link us to them, because they are symbols for every mans fall. Jesus was linked to them because even though he was perfect, he was still a man, and thus still connected to them.
So, as you can see the genealogies can be correct without the need of a literal reading of Adam and Eve.
Then you had better be out by now. Does Genesis 6-8 describe a violent Flood? Isn't pre-Flood Eden's location identified by post-Flood rivers. For that to be "plain truth" you have to have a gentle Flood that doesn't change the geography. Yet YECers demand a violent Flood. In contradiction to a plain reading of Scripture.Micaiah said:When the YEC's start to set themselves above God's word, I'm out.
Genesis 2-3 represents the disobedience of God by all of us. Adam and Eve are archetypes for each and every one of us. Each of us disobeys God and is cut off from Him -- exiled from the Garden. If you want, original sin is selfishness, which is an inherent part of us thanks to evolution -- the selfish gene. We will do what is best for me rather than for someone else.Modus said:Can you tell us what the fall of man, leaving the garden of eden, and original sin represent. Also, who is Kane and Abel suposed to represent?
Oh, I got booted from a couple of atheist boards for questioning dogma. Such as whether evolution really is atheism or defending the methodology of the intercessory prayer papers! www.skeptics.org asked me to leave. I'll have to look up the other one where I was barred. But I admit my ratio of being asked to leave is 5 creationist to 2 atheist so far.Cantuar said:Yes, I'm sure militant atheists are as ruthless as any other militants, but it does seem to be the case that deletion, editing, warnings, and suspensions of pro-evolution posters on Christian discussions boards is depressingly common (this board being a refreshing exception). On the other hand, the II board doesn't seem to treat creationists and other theists nearly so dismissively. They can get booted for breaking the rules, but it seems like athiests or pro-evolution supporters who are theists are given a hard time on some of those Christian boards just because they disagree with the theistic position.
orBushido216 said:Too many big words, unfortunately.
Liberal Interpretationist Conspiracy?
It will be destroyed and there's really nothing anyone can do about it. Why? Because God said it would and it has to be for the Tribulation. But it has nothing to do with believing in 6 day creation.Arikay said:"Arikay is an atheist, yes, but he is also dedicated to truth and does not want to see Christianity destroyed when it might possibly be right!"
Yep, not to mention If christianity is to be destroyed it needs to be from something truthfull, creationism is definetly not that. Same goes for any religion, even my own. If its right, then I dont want to see it destroyed, and if its not right, ive seen it do enough good (when taken in appropriate non fundementalist doses) that I would want it to be destroyed. And unfortunatly to atheists or even non christians, creationism turns christianity into a laughing matter and a false religion.
Oh, I got booted from a couple of atheist boards for questioning dogma. Such as whether evolution really is atheism or defending the methodology of the intercessory prayer papers! www.skeptics.org asked me to leave. I'll have to look up the other one where I was barred. But I admit my ratio of being asked to leave is 5 creationist to 2 atheist so far.
Modus said:Can you tell us what the fall of man, leaving the garden of eden, and original sin represent. Also, who is Kane and Abel suposed to represent?
Namaste Arikay,Arikay said:What Lucaspa said.
An interesting interpretation I heard of Cain and Abel was thats its a story of how people are saved. The Vegtable offering represent works and the animal offering represents blood. In NT times, blood = faith. God refused the works yet accepted the blood, thus you are not saved through works but through faith in the blood sacrifice of Jesus.
also, it would take some studying but I do find the imagery of a flaming moving sword protecting eden as being heavily symbolic and it would be interesting to figure out what it symbolizes. As throughout history use of swords in paintings and writtings often have a symbolic background to them.
vajradhara said:Namaste Arikay,
thank you for the post.
i've been engaged in a discussion on symbols and symbology on another board.. in any event...
in the Buddhist tradition the "flaming sword" represents wisdom, usually weilded by the Bodhisattva Manjurshi who represents enlightened wisdom. i would be curious to know if Christians interpet the flaming sword as symbol or fact.
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