It's all about self, a look at Adventist evangelism.

[Mankin]

There is one thing that I cannot ignore when it comes to Adventist theology. It's all about self. It's all about "teaching" others Adventist doctrine and getting them to join the church. It seems that the majority of Adventist "converts" were already Christians in the first place.
Adventism has a mindset of looking inward rather than outward. Even when they give Bible studies to people they are looking inward to draw these people into their particular denominational beliefs. One can see this mindset even more in their evangelistic meetings. It seems almost all of Adventist evangelism revolves around sharing their doctrines with others, not teaching others the basics of Christianity. It seems like Adventists are more interested in stealing sheep so to say.
You see very little interdenominational work between Adventism and other Protestant denom. Adventists have their evangelism, the other protestants have theirs.
One must ask themselves, why? Why is Adventism so focused on self during its evangelism? The most obvious answer is that they equate the Three angles message with Adventist doctrine and consider it to the be gospel. Much like Mormons and JW, they view their own message in the same importance as the Gospel message. By doing this they look inward rather than outward and their evangelism becomes more focused on the church and less on leading people to Jesus.

 

[Mankin]

Of course as long as traditionalism reigns in the church, there will be little interdenominational evangelism. Despite how the church tries to hide it, they still believe that all other protestant churchs are the harlot daughters of Catholicism. The hypocrisy in this is if you look closely enough Adventism fits in the category of a harlot daughter but that is a dicussion for another thread.

Often when the Gospel looses its simplicity it looses its power. When spreading the word becomes more about spreading doctrines than spreading Jesus, evangelism becomes more about self(meaning the Adventist church). Unfortunatly, this will likely not change as long as Adventism remains tied to doctrine spreading. The only thing we, progressives, can do is set an example. We can spread the Gospel and do Bible studies(or any other method, friendly dicussion about religion, ect, ect.) without the underlying purpose of spreading doctrines.

If you look at Paul closely, you'll notice he never spent a great deal of time teaching doctrines. In fact he stayed out of the Jewish and Christian debate signicantly. The only time he entered the debate was when Jews began to say that one must follow the Jewish laws and perform circumcision in order to be saved. Also, Paul himself said it was better not to get involved in debates over Jewish laws.

 

[StormyOne]

very astute my young friend.....

 

[Mankin]

Thanks Stormy.

Also I have noticed that no other denomination, save Catholicism, JW, or Mormonism, has quite as strong of a sub culture as Adventism does. Not even Southern Baptists have such a strong sub culture. Why is this? Is not sub culture a result of looking inward? I'm not saying sub culture is a bad thing. It's only bad when it becomes the main focus and alienates others.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

The SDA sect bes a branch long since cut from the vine by its OWN hand, and apart from the true vine, it withers. The Valugenesis studies showed that over 50% of SDA "converts" leave the church in the first 2 years (very similar to divorce studies, we note) and of that number the vast majority cite failure to form new friendships within the church as a key reason.

Now we might think that a trivial affair but in reality it bes most telling. Some people by nature find it difficult to form new friendships because we bes social misfits, but misfits bes in the vast minority. Most people under normal circumstances do not find it difficult at all to form new friendships given an atmosphere conducive to doing so. Aye, there bes the rub -- atmosphere conducive. SDAs tend to be an insular and cliquish lot and just plain don't open up to new folks who have not spent their whole lives immersed in SDA subculture. Beyond that they also do not have a soteriology conducive to the formation of compassion or a true sense of mission or body theology.

Inability to make friendships for so many people indicates a basic dearth of spiritual fruit in the congregation, which bes telling in all sorts of areas about the rest of the milieu.

 

[mva1985]

The SDA sect bes a branch long since cut from the vine by its OWN hand, and apart from the true vine, it withers. The Valugenesis studies showed that over 50% of SDA "converts" leave the church in the first 2 years (very similar to divorce studies, we note) and of that number the vast majority cite failure to form new friendships within the church as a key reason.

Now we might think that a trivial affair but in reality it bes most telling. Some people by nature find it difficult to form new friendships because we bes social misfits, but misfits bes in the vast minority. Most people under normal circumstances do not find it difficult at all to form new friendships given an atmosphere conducive to doing so. Aye, there bes the rub -- atmosphere conducive. SDAs tend to be an insular and cliquish lot and just plain don't open up to new folks who have not spent their whole lives immersed in SDA subculture. Beyond that they also do not have a soteriology conducive to the formation of compassion or a true sense of mission or body theology.

Inability to make friendships for so many people indicates a basic dearth of spiritual fruit in the congregation, which bes telling in all sorts of areas about the rest of the milieu.

Hardly unique to SDA's I think.

 

[Mankin]

A Baptist and a Methodist can still gather together without a big culture shock. Put a Catholic and an Adventist togther tho....

 

[Sophia7]

There is one thing that I cannot ignore when it comes to Adventist theology. It's all about self. It's all about "teaching" others Adventist doctrine and getting them to join the church. It seems that the majority of Adventist "converts" were already Christians in the first place.
Adventism has a mindset of looking inward rather than outward. Even when they give Bible studies to people they are looking inward to draw these people into their particular denominational beliefs. One can see this mindset even more in their evangelistic meetings. It seems almost all of Adventist evangelism revolves around sharing their doctrines with others, not teaching others the basics of Christianity. It seems like Adventists are more interested in stealing sheep so to say.
You see very little interdenominational work between Adventism and other Protestant denom. Adventists have their evangelism, the other protestants have theirs.
One must ask themselves, why? Why is Adventism so focused on self during its evangelism? The most obvious answer is that they equate the Three angles message with Adventist doctrine and consider it to the be gospel. Much like Mormons and JW, they view their own message in the same importance as the Gospel message. By doing this they look inward rather than outward and their evangelism becomes more focused on the church and less on leading people to Jesus.

This is one of my biggest problems with Adventism--that its evangelism is self-serving and that it doesn't focus enough on reaching out to non-Christians rather than trying to convert other Christians to the Sabbath.

 

[Windmill]

Now this completely depends on where the evangelism is taking place.

Go to the islands and the 3rd world countries, its a lot different than how it is within the western world.

 

[moicherie]

In Western Europe Adventist evangelism is geared to making Christian people Adventists it is not about showing people Jesus (the majority could not care less about formal religion but may consider themselves spiritual).

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Hardly unique to SDA's I think.

I've always been quick to agree when a criticism of SDAism is also true of other denominations. Although I agree that the problem articulated in the OP may also exist in certain churches, I don't sense that it is anywhere near as rampant within maintstream protestantism as it is in SDAism.

In fact, in the churches that I've visited, pastors and lay leaders have always been careful to point out that we are seeking the lost, we are not seeking to steal believers from other healthy churches. I sense that mainstream protestant churches view other mainstream protestant churches as joint heirs of the Kingdom. It is for this reason that you will frequently see Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Evangelical and Methodist churches partnering together to pool resources to serve their communities. It is quite telling that SDAs generally do not participate in such activities (perhaps because many of them are undertaken on the seventh day of the week). In my community, the SDA churches are invited and simply elect not to join in (don't know what happens in other places).

SDAism believes it has the remnant message the will survive until the end. It believes and teaches that, unless Christians accept that remnant message, they are in danger of one day receiving the mark of the beast. Such teachings are extremely foreign to mainstream protestant churches and serve as the source of the differences between SDAism and its protestant counterparts. SDAism is indeed quite inwardly focused. Rather than claiming that other churches are also inwardly focused, perhaps SDAism might consider its inward focus and move toward positive change?

BFA

(P.S. I know that I'm just dreaming here . . . .)

 

[AndrewK788]

Although I do believe in the importance and still keep the Sabbath, and I agree with most SDA doctrine, I do agree that we focus too much on our own doctrine when it comes to evangelism!

I love my church and it's culture and the friendships I have here, but I absolutely hate it when I hear Adventists refer to the SDA church as the remnant! Nothing gets under my skin faster than to hear that line! It's that line of thinking that will blow you up with pride and end up no better than the Pharisees did 2,000 years ago. I think the SDA church is shooting itself in the foot when it starts to get that exclusivism ideal rolling. In my opinion, the true remnant is anyone and everyone who is a true follower of Jesus Christ. There will be SDAs but the majority will not be I think.

So I do agree with most SDA doctrine, but I agree with you that we need to stop patting ourselves on the back and actually reach out to people who don't know the name of Christ...not reach out to fellow Christians who don't know the name of Ellen White... (no disrespect to EGW intended)

Well there you have it...and this is coming from a trad...

 

[Mankin]

I would consider you a moderate Andrew Also if you notice the remnate of believers in early Christianity had many differences in theology(especially Jewish Christians and Gentiles). That didn't tear them apart tho. They attempted to set aside those differences to further spread the Gospel! Unfortunatly, later churchs did not follow their example. The Restoration movement tried to revitalize unity but ended up being divided amongst themselves.

 

[AndrewK788]

I would consider you a moderate Andrew

I follow God to the best of my ability and serve Him with all my heart. So whatever that makes me... lol

 

[Sophia7]

Although I do believe in the importance and still keep the Sabbath, and I agree with most SDA doctrine, I do agree that we focus too much on our own doctrine when it comes to evangelism!

I love my church and it's culture and the friendships I have here, but I absolutely hate it when I hear Adventists refer to the SDA church as the remnant! Nothing gets under my skin faster than to hear that line! It's that line of thinking that will blow you up with pride and end up no better than the Pharisees did 2,000 years ago. I think the SDA church is shooting itself in the foot when it starts to get that exclusivism ideal rolling. In my opinion, the true remnant is anyone and everyone who is a true follower of Jesus Christ. There will be SDAs but the majority will not be I think.

So I do agree with most SDA doctrine, but I agree with you that we need to stop patting ourselves on the back and actually reach out to people who don't know the name of Christ...not reach out to fellow Christians who don't know the name of Ellen White... (no disrespect to EGW intended)

Well there you have it...and this is coming from a trad...

Though many Trads accuse us formers of being hateful toward the SDA Church, I have to say that, from my own perspective, I still love our family and friends and former parishioners who are still in the SDA Church, and I still have a fondness for the church itself. I grew up in it, and it was a big part of my identity, and there are things that I miss about it. Adventism is not something that can just be cast off in a day or a week or a month or even a year. I didn't grow up in Historic Adventism, so I didn't have a lot of the baggage that goes along with that. My experience in Adventism was mostly good, and I'm thankful for where I've come from because it's helped to shape me into who I am now. I simply couldn't agree with enough doctrines anymore to feel right about calling myself an Adventist.

What I have spoken out against is those doctrines that I believe are unbiblical. However, if I had thought that there was any hope of reforming the church on certain issues--like the remnant and EGW and the IJ, for example--and that I could be a part of that change, I might have considered staying. As it was, I couldn't see that happening anytime in the near future. What I saw was the Adventist administration at the highest levels digging their heels in and trying to preserve the "pillars" and squelch dissent. And although Adventist evangelism has incorporated some new methods, it still spreads the same old messages (many of which I can't agree with anymore), and it still focuses too much on trying to convert other Christians to Adventism.

I agree with you, Andrew, that the remnant will be all true Christians, and I wish the Adventist Church itself would stop being so self-absorbed. Even though I don't consider myself a Seventh-day Adventist anymore, I would still love to see the church change what needs to be changed and become more Christ-centered and less focused on stubbornly upholding tradition. I've seen some slight changes in individual members and in local churches during my lifetime, and even during our ministry, but as long as the SDA Church itself clings to Ellen White as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth," I don't think that real, widespread reform can happen.

 

[JonMiller]

This is one of my biggest problems with Adventism--that its evangelism is self-serving and that it doesn't focus enough on reaching out to non-Christians rather than trying to convert other Christians to the Sabbath.

I agree.

I don't think that this is true in other countries though.

Since I have been part of the outreach in my church, I know it isn't true (in all of) the outreach in my church.

JM

 

[JonMiller]

Most other mainstream Protestant denoms don't care what denomination you are a member of as long as it isn't 'weird'
.

JM

 

[Mankin]

Usually not. And very few of them try to convert Christians from other denominations.