Israel - what role?

[FreeinChrist]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

 

[Terral]

Hi FreeInChrist:

FreeInChrist >> Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

Do you want to do a little more with your opening post on this thread? Practically all of OT Prophecy concerns Israel and the coming Kingdom. That is like asking if Jesus Christ has a role as the Son of God. Our ‘body of Christ’ church in the world today is according to ‘the mystery’ (Eph. 3:3+4) of the Pauline Epistles. None of the OT Prophets saw the Lord’s mystery church (Eph. 5:32) ‘body.’ Eph. 5:30. All of God’s promises concerning Israel is what the prophets ‘were’ given to see and write about in the Old Testament. Prophecy is fulfilled in Matthew –John and Hebrews – Revelation with part of Acts. Our mystery church is described in the Pauline Epistles.

BTW, where did everybody go? This place is a ghost town. : 0 ).

In Christ,

Terral

 

[FreeinChrist]

I was thinking of Israel's role in the future.

 

[FreeinChrist]

BTW, where did everybody go? This place is a ghost town. : 0 ).

Yep - it has.

 

[Terral]

FreeInChrist:

FreeInChrist >> I was thinking of Israel's role in the future.

The ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) here on the earth shall come to an end with the rapture of the church. 1Thes. 4:17. Think about it for a minute . . . All of the ‘true’ Evangelists will be caught up to be with the Lord, along with every other member of ‘Christ’s body.’ This is the moment that Elijah will begin to restore all things to Israel (Matt. 17:10+11), and the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) will once again be the only ‘gospel’ in town. The ‘kingdom’ of the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will have its central hub in Jerusalem. The ‘tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) will be restored, and its ruins rebuilt. Instead of the nations having access to God through our ‘Christ and Him crucified’ (1Cor. 2:2) gospel message, salvation will once again be from the Jews. John 4:22. That is when the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will go to all the nations through the ‘holy nation’ (Ex. 19:6, 1Pet. 2:9) ‘royal priesthood’ and ‘chosen race.’ 1Pet. 2:9. Your Bible from Hebrews – Revelation will be fulfilled in their days of the restored kingdom of Israel on the earth, while the members of the body of Christ are with the Lamb in heaven.

In Christ,

Terral

 

[Barraco]

FreeInChrist:

The ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) here on the earth shall come to an end with the rapture of the church. 1Thes. 4:17. Think about it for a minute . . . All of the ‘true’ Evangelists will be caught up to be with the Lord, along with every other member of ‘Christ’s body.’ This is the moment that Elijah will begin to restore all things to Israel (Matt. 17:10+11), and the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) will once again be the only ‘gospel’ in town. The ‘kingdom’ of the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will have its central hub in Jerusalem. The ‘tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) will be restored, and its ruins rebuilt. Instead of the nations having access to God through our ‘Christ and Him crucified’ (1Cor. 2:2) gospel message, salvation will once again be from the Jews. John 4:22. That is when the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will go to all the nations through the ‘holy nation’ (Ex. 19:6, 1Pet. 2:9) ‘royal priesthood’ and ‘chosen race.’ 1Pet. 2:9. Your Bible from Hebrews – Revelation will be fulfilled in their days of the restored kingdom of Israel on the earth, while the members of the body of Christ are with the Lamb in heaven.

In Christ,

Terral

The rapture is debatable, especially since there are only 3 and 1/2 days left of Daniel's 70th prophetic week, and not 7. It really just counts on how you interpret Daniel 9:27. If there are only 3 and 1/2 years left and thats the time the two witnesses prophecy and the time the beast persecutes the saints, then who are the saints if the Church is raptured? We can't say 144,000 because they follow Jesus whereever He goes, which means they will be redeemed from the earth unto heaven with Jesus until He returns. It can't be the Jews because Revelation 11 shows that Jerusalem's(Sodom and Egypt) inhabitants won't recieve Jesus and glorify the Lord until the two witnesses are resurrected and raptured, a great earthquake destroys a tenth of the city and kills 7,000 people therein.
I believe the rapture is at the end of the tribulation and only applies to 'meeting' the Lord on His way down to earth, instead of 'chilling' out in heaven.
The Church will go through the tribulation as a cause for the Gospel being spread throughout the earth. The Church's suffering is not a result of God's Wrath, but for the cause of refinement of the Church and salvation of the lost sheep. Revelation MUST be intepreted in view of the Gospel or there is no clear signifigance to anything within. God Bless.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

FreeInChrist:

The ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2) here on the earth shall come to an end with the rapture of the church. 1Thes. 4:17. Think about it for a minute . . . All of the ‘true’ Evangelists will be caught up to be with the Lord, along with every other member of ‘Christ’s body.’

pre trib whether anyone believes this or not its going to happen

This is the moment that Elijah will begin to restore all things to

Israel (Matt. 17:10+11), and the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) will once again be the only ‘gospel’ in town. The ‘kingdom’ of the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will have its central hub in Jerusalem. The ‘tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) will be restored, and its ruins rebuilt. Instead of the nations having access to God through our ‘Christ and Him crucified’ (1Cor. 2:2) gospel message

I thought the gospel was 1 cor 15:2-4,17

, salvation will once again be from the Jews. John 4:22. That is when the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will go to all the nations through the ‘holy nation’ (Ex. 19:6, 1Pet. 2:9) ‘royal priesthood’ and ‘chosen race.

Lets look at 1 peter 2:9-10

1 peter 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priest hood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people[eph 2:11-12], are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy

eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision[Jews] in the flesh made by hands 12 That at that time ye were without Christ being aliens from the common wealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world

’ 1Pet. 2:9. Your Bible from Hebrews – Revelation will be fulfilled in their days of the restored

kingdom of Israel on the earth, while the members of the body of Christ are with the Lamb in heaven.

In Christ,

Terral

little off

 

[MAC]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

The only thing that I may see at this time is that the people of Israel as the whole world will have one Lord and one redeemer. As a nation that many believed will evangelize the whole will not come to pass, for that is why God made it clear that a Jew is not from the seed or from the land but from the inner parts (soul) in this are the people of God those “Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

 

[Bulldog]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

The cititzens of the Modern State of Israel? No.

 

[Hitch]

The cititzens of the Modern State of Israel? No.

Wrongo Bulldog .... The purpose of the modern state of Israel is to further confuse and debilitate dispensationalist.

As if any help were needed.

 

[msortwell]

I believe that there is a great role for Israel to play as these last days draw to a close . . .

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)

But then . . . that would not be a dispensational view.

 

[Dmckay]

Hi FreeInChrist:

Do you want to do a little more with your opening post on this thread? Practically all of OT Prophecy concerns Israel and the coming Kingdom. That is like asking if Jesus Christ has a role as the Son of God. Our ‘body of Christ’ church in the world today is according to ‘the mystery’ (Eph. 3:3+4) of the Pauline Epistles. None of the OT Prophets saw the Lord’s mystery church (Eph. 5:32) ‘body.’ Eph. 5:30. All of God’s promises concerning Israel is what the prophets ‘were’ given to see and write about in the Old Testament. Prophecy is fulfilled in Matthew –John and Hebrews – Revelation with part of Acts. Our mystery church is described in the Pauline Epistles.

BTW, where did everybody go? This place is a ghost town. : 0 ).

In Christ,

Terral

BOO!

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I believe that there is a great role for Israel to play as these last days draw to a close . . .

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Rom 9:6-8)

But then . . . that would not be a dispensational view.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew[racial] circumcision nor uncircumcision[religion], Barbarian, scythian, bond nor free[social]; But Christ is all,and in all.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew or Greek, there is neither bond or free, there is neither male or female: you ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

romans 10:12 For their is no difference between the Jew and the greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him

eph 2:11-12 Gentiles had no hope till Christ died on the cross unlike the Jews

Rev 2:9 Gentiles saying they are Jews since they like their promises of the earth called synoguoge of satan

 

[Ebb]

Rev 2:9 Gentiles saying they are Jews since they like their promises of the earth called synoguoge of satan

Is Rev 2:9 addressed to Gentiles or the Church? What does Rev 2:9 actually say? Is anything critical said to the persecuted church in Smyrna? Is "synagogue of Satan" referring to some in the church in Smyrna or some outside the church persecuting the church in Smyrna?

8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 2:8-11

Romans 9:6-8 is the passage (you asked for in another thread) that says "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel", and distinguishes between "children of the flesh" that are not the children of God and the "children of the promise" counted for the seed:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Romans 9:6-8

Were the particular Jews that Jesus referred to below not examples of those who were children of the flesh but not children of the promise? If their father is the devil, would they not be part of the synagogue of Satan?

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
John 8:44-49

If anyone rejects the knowledge of the truth of the finished work of Christ on the cross, what sacrifice remains for their sins (such as in a future temple)?

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26-27

 

[Ebb]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

I believe that Romans 11 tells us that there will be a remnant of Jews of the flesh at the end time that will come to a saving knowledge of Christ.

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Romans 11:25

 

[Pilgrim and stranger]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

Yes I do.

 

[johnd]

Does anyone here see a prophetic role for Israel?

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

What place does this sentence have in the Bible if God has either done away with Israel or replaced her with the Church?

None. If either premise is valid then it stands out like a sore thumb. And verses that contradict the rest of scripture so were part and parcel grounds for not including the entire book in the biblical canon.

In fact, the ONLY way the verse does not contradict the rest of scripture is that Israel is the name of both the heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and of the people (Jew and Gentile) who were and are faithful to God's progressive revelation. The easiest way to categorize this is "physical Israel" and "spirit Israel."

Thus:

"For they are not all spirit Israel, which are of physical Israel."

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Many good Bible teachers try to distinguish the Church from Israel missing out entirely on the fact that the Church IS Israel and always has been (since the beginning in Eden).

Israel was what God intended the physical Jews (Jacobians) to become.

Understand, that even in unbelief the Jacobians maintain a place in God's heart as the chosen and are to be treated as such.

Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are {physical} Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So do not fall into the error that they are out of the plan or that it is ok to mistreat them. God's promises to them IN THIS LIFE still stand. We just want the better for them as well in the next life!

.

 

[mcfly1960]

Many good Bible teachers try to distinguish the Church from Israel missing out entirely on the fact that the Church IS Israel and always has been (since the beginning in Eden).

Good point!

 

[Jerrysch]

Many good Bible teachers try to distinguish the Church from Israel missing out entirely on the fact that the Church IS Israel and always has been (since the beginning in Eden).​

.

So why not substitute the word "church" for Isreal when ever you see it in the Bible?

Gen 32: 28(A)He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but the Church ; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."

Gen 35: 10(A)God said to him,
"Your name is Jacob;
You shall no longer be called Jacob,
But the Church shall be your name."
Thus He called him the Church .

Gen 50:2Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father. So the physicians embalmed the Church .

Ex. 1:
13The Egyptians compelled the Church (A)to labor rigorously;

Ex 2:23Now it came about in the course of those many days that the king of Egypt died. And the Church sighed because of the bondage, and they cried out; and (B)their cry for help because of their bondage rose up to God.


Far fetched? This is the sort of thing which happenes when you change the meaning of the words God chose to convey what He wanted known.

 

[Hitch]

So why not substitute the word "church" for Isreal when ever you see it in the Bible?


Oh gee I dunno context maybe?