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Isn't time a measurement of motion?

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SelfSim

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To paraphrase a Louis Armstrong, "If you have to ask, you'll never know"
I don't think I care much for your tone, sir.
I am reminded of my recent analogy of stuffing a chicken in a box as an attempt to prove that chickens cannot fly across the yard.

How do you distinguish the authoritarian views you present from straight up Totalitarianism?
 
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Roidecoeur78

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I don't make the rules buddy, I just exist in a framework of nature that must conform itself to them, whether it likes it or not.

No one ever said anything about "free will" or the illusion of "choice". Were you under the impression a universe of nature creates and governs itself, when in reality it must conform itself to pre-existing, immutable, and eternal laws? There is very little wiggle room, since culture is dictated by human nature, which is dictated by biology, which is dictated by chemistry, which is dictated by physics, which is dictated by pre-existing, immutable laws. Scratch that, there is no wiggle room. But, for comedic effect, let's ask an expert. Hey, Fartsniffing Cumberbun! what say ye of free will or no free will?
 
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If time simply measures motion, like Earth's orbit and rotation, then wouldn't that make time a concept of imagination. By this I mean, wouldn't time be a human concept? It wouldn't exist at all!

What do you think of this?
Hi TMC - Only read a few of the opening posts so sorry if this has already been put on the table.
But as to time being a measurement of motion/change - If we close our eyes, count to ten in our heads then open our eyes and everything is exactly the same, that is, nothing has moved or changed, then have we not, never the less, measured 'time?
I lean towards understanding 'time' as being nothing more (without being in any way dismissive of it ) than calibrations of eternity. Time always assumes a beginning and end.
When Moses (or whoever) first wrote, "In the beginning ..." he was defining a starting point. We humans, in this life, are 'contained' within this particular calibration. We may mark and measure (even invent) all sorts of 'times' within this particular 'period' but because we are contained in it we are subject to it.
Yea if I had the time I'd write a book about it .
><>
 
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SelfSim

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I don't make the rules buddy, I just exist in a framework of nature that must conform itself to them, whether it likes it or not.
Whatever do you mean, sir? Physical Laws and physical constants are human constructs that consistently describe what humans observe .. and humans alter them to adapt to new observations. There is abundant objective evidence of this .. and none supporting that nature must conform to them.
I can only conclude that you are again, expressing your personally held beliefs .. please try harder in declaring them as such .. so as to help in avoiding future miscommunication.

Soooo much dictatorship .. and yet so little objective evidence for it!

What say ye now about your own evidence of the trail and purpose of the intellectual contributions of:
Roidecoeur78 said:
Plato, Schopenhauer, Einstein, Feynman, Gödel, Jung, Kierkegaard, Turing, Fermi, Crick and Watson, and countless others ..
 
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SelfSim

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Time is fundamental to human minds making sense of their perceptions and observations. Try it sometime .. try making sense of some perception without invoking the concept of time (I almost guarantee you won't be able to).
'Moses (or whoever)' were evidently no exceptions to this. (They left fingerprints of the human mind all over everything they described).
 
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Roidecoeur78

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Roidecoeur78

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What say ye now about your own evidence of the trail and purpose of the intellectual contributions of:
They, like you and I, were products of their place and time, and could not be other than who and what they were. Because, like you and I, they did not pick "their" parents, name, 1st grade teacher, culture, ethnicity, historical era, geographic location, lifespan, temperament, siblings, background, height, gender, mental faculties, species, surrounding events, planet, or "their" lack thereof concerning any of those things. And so they had no control over their trajectory, not during its beginning, middle, or end. Those aspects were not "theirs" in any sense of possession, they were "theirs" because they had been assigned them. Yet I'm sure, like you, they liked to believe they were free to be the authors of their own destiny. You like to believe you have a “free” will, and that you somehow choose how you will act or react in any given situation. But you didn't get to choose any of the details that went into making you. You can’t even save yourself from being here and now, yet you like to think a member of a species that emerges from the dust is somehow going to escape the dust.

To paraphrase a Schopenhauer, "You may choose what you will. But you cannot choose that you have a will in the first place, or what it desires".
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Are you sure that conservation of energy applies "beyond" the universe?
What is "beyond" our universe???

I've seen no edge anywhere, just the fact light is extinguished by particles in space which also causes cosmological redshift.....

A New Non-Doppler Redshift

That there is no edge is evident by the fact that as they keep looking they keep finding "mature" galaxies and clusters of galaxies where none of those should exist under their falsified cosmological models.

It's some of those on here that imply new physics never before seen in any laboratory operates beyond our galactic cluster, while arguing physics is the same everywhere..... You just can't observe that claimed physics here is all.....
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Its entirely possible that there are other universes (with their own time, space, and stuff) besides ours.
So if anything is possible, than a universe in which there exists God is also entirely possible.... Yes?
 
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durangodawood

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What is "beyond" our universe???.
I mean anything other than our universe.

Yeah, its a problem with language that we have to use spatial terms to talk about space other than our space.

We just have to make the best of the words we have.
 
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durangodawood

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So if anything is possible, than a universe in which there exists God is also entirely possible.... Yes?
Knee jerk reaction is yes.

But to properly answer, I'd have to know what you mean by "God", because it means different things to different people.

For example, most believers dont even think God is "in" a universe. Rather, He transcends it.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Did I not state the conversation laws do not apply across frames?
They apply equally as well in the stationary and moving twins frame...

Are you now claiming the moving twin or stationary twin observe different laws of physics????

Try sticking to the subject involving Doppler shift because it gives a clear insight into what is going on.
Why? You don't really want to discuss Doppler shift which is a wave moving through a medium....

By its very nature Doppler shift is an increase or decrease in energy depending on the whether the source is moving towards or away from the observer.
Because you ignore that Doppler is actually a wave moving in a medium. Need I explain energy transfer if coming towards an object or away from an object?

Shall we look up Doppler shift and find how the only explanation they have is sound waves moving through a medium, then watch them scramble to say light is just like that except no medium??????

Using Noether’s theorem however one cannot define the dynamical system of the observer by a Lagrangian which is invariant under a time translation, hence energy is not conserved since the conservation law is not applicable.
What time translation? If you want time translations then why are you not translating time as you go backwards in time????? Ahhh, because now you need your clock rate to be constant so you can claim decay rate is constant??????

I'm sensing a conflicted argument coming on here by you.....


Sigh, because you keep ignoring Doppler is a shift of waves traveling through a medium.....

You know, all that "matter" you keep pretending isn't there....


NASA's Chandra Shows Milky Way is Surrounded by Halo of Hot Gas

http://www.sciencedaily.com/rele...

http://www.space.com/5348-view-u...

Ulysses (spacecraft)

"Ulysses discovered that dust coming into the Solar System from deep space was 30 times more abundant than previously expected."

And the light waves have traveled through..... imparting energy or gaining it.....

For someone who boasted about understanding conservation laws by stating every system has a conservation law you have contradicted yourself by showing the opposite is in fact correct.
This from the guy who's only explanation of Doppler is sound waves moving through a medium imparting or gaining energy from that medium, then claiming we'll ignore all the matter light travels through because i need an argument.....

Ever seen energy be destroyed? Minus your confused conception of Doppler which is a wave traveling through a medium of course. Oh that's right, you need to believe the laws can be violated to postulate your Doppler shift which isnt a Doppler shift but instead caused by expansion of space through magical energy creation. My bad.....

The moving ball shows your flawed thinking in absolute frames. the ball sees no gain or loss of energy for itself... For someone that claims to believe everything is relative you sure have a tendency to try to argue this is an absolute frame.....

You mean where you quoted various values for orbits such as 1000 mph, 67000 mph or 514000 mph blissfully unaware you were quoting velocity not acceleration!!!
Yes, I know, in your world motion magically happens without acceleration.....

Do you understand if these values are constant the acceleration is zero?
Ecept we both know thay are not constant, that is why orbits are calculated as accelerations... Or did you have another strawman to argue??/

If you say so....

Earth Orbits

Apparently you didn't understand Einstein when he told you gravity was the same as an acceleration......


You chose to ignore the accelerometer evidence and the explanations given because your patently absurd ideas are based on a pet theory where the evidence and science can be damned.
You continue to be confused as to WHY the accelerometer reads zero... Although technically it reads 9.8 meters per second per second here on the earth's surface...

An object accelerating at 9.8 meters per second per second in free fall would read zero despite its acceleration of 9.8 meters per second per second.

Oh, one built for earth's gravity at least....

But there you go again. Thinking of this earth as an absolute frame and not understanding the results in micro-gravity. According to you "Free-falling" (accelerating at fractions of c) in step with your expansion so that it has no velocity relative to the expansion.....

Ooops, did you forget that????

So we would read none due to our acceleration through space, just the constant 9.8 meters per second per second acceleration here on earth due to gravity.....

Need I remind you of your belief that everything looks the same from any point in space. So that if on a far galaxy, we would have a redshift equaling fractions of c.....

Or is this the part where you claim physics works differently in different parts of the universe while arguing against Dad when he says the same thing?????

I'm not on the loosing end. You just keep hiding behind your conflicting arguments and wont let yourself see them for what they are..... And when you can't hide any more you start claiming physics never observed in any laboratory, but only way-out-that-a-way, while refusing to see it is Dad's argument in a nutshell which you fervently object to... Lol, loosing, Lol.....

Yah, it's usually the ones that start it that end up not being able to take the return heat.....

But I forgive you and glad you learned something at least!!!!
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Knee jerk reaction is yes.

But to properly answer, I'd have to know what you mean by "God", because it means different things to different people.

For example, most believers dont even think God is "in" a universe. Rather, He transcends it.
Well my God said He is "in" everything and everywhere. I'm not sure about their God.... They will have to answer that....
 
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Justatruthseeker

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How do you?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I mean anything other than our universe.

Yeah, its a problem with language that we have to use spatial terms to talk about space other than our space.

We just have to make the best of the words we have.
We would have to delve into the metaphysical, since this universe is all I know that exists....

Oh, unless we propose multi-verses, then it is scientific
 
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SelfSim

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Just so I can understand you, can you tell me where you think the meanings of the words you use to convey your messages to me, come from?
Were they in your opinion, just sort of floating around in eternity .. just waiting for us to come long and use them in recreating some pre-existing reality?
 
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durangodawood

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Roidecoeur78

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New phone, who dis?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Just a bit ago you were happy to speculate about conditions beyond/outside our universe.

See:
Oh no, that would still be part of “this” universe, just in the past. It would in no way imply another universe....

I’ve no problem discussing the metaphysical as long as we all understand we are discussing the metaphysical and nothing that could be construed as science.....
 
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