Here are some guesses:
- ignorance
- fear (partially as a result of media)
- hate (partially as a result of media)
- personal agendas
btw... I support jihad (in circumstances where it is valid).. but not murder or terrorism.
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So if this is true, then why are so many Muslims, including top level religious leaders like the Ayatollah Khomeini, who believe in murder, terrorism, and jihad, not getting the message?
.
Of course they to do... Because if a Muslim hates non-Muslims, than he will also hate other peoples... Which has to do with the love of self, which means hatred of others... One can't have one without the other.... (Even when they want to, it's just not possible...)In case you're not aware, Pakistan and Iran HATE each other.
Do you also support the following statement of the Muslim Brotherhood? And would you think that Islam all over the world, would be a good thing?btw... I support jihad (in circumstances where it is valid).. but not murder or terrorism.
A global Iran of Pakistan... Isn't that something to behold....The Brotherhood's official website notes that jihad is Islam's most important tool in effecting a gradual takeover, beginning with the Muslim countries, moving on to reestablishing the Caliphate over three continents in preparation for a conquest of the West, and finally instituting a global Islamic state.
John 10:10
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Here are some guesses:
- ignorance
- fear (partially as a result of media)
- hate (partially as a result of media)
- personal agendas
btw... I support jihad (in circumstances where it is valid).. but not murder or terrorism.
This is what the Qur'an teaches, Montalban.
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (60:8)
Again this is extremely misleading.
It is recognised that this verse is abrogated by 9:29
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
I find it a dreadfully misleading but common practice of Moslems when they show verses that are in the Koran without letting people know that those verses no longer apply because they've been abrogated.
There is for instance in the Koran "There shall be no compulsion in religion". This Moslems use to deceive non-Moslems into believing that Islam is a faith of peace.
They don't mention it's been abrogated - which is why apostates can be killed.
But then lying for Islam is also permitted. I always think that a cause is greatly undermined when tactics such as deception are needed
So your leaders know less than you do?
x2. That is the whole purpose of Islam right there.... Which has nothing to do with God, whatsoever.The purpose of Islam is tio rule and convert the world. You have the choice of being Muslom, a slave to them or being killed. That is the true picture of what Islam wishes to accomplish.
What happens in Pakistan or any other country is NOT your concern; it's their country's internal matter. What you should worry about is the growing racism and xenophobia against the immigrants in your country. If we all worried about our backyard first without poking our nose into other people's affairs, the world would be much more peaceful than it is today. Something which both the US and Israel can learn.
Please show me who says it's abrogated.
Again this is extremely misleading.
It is recognised that this verse is abrogated by 9:29
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
I find it a dreadfully misleading but common practice of Moslems when they show verses that are in the Koran without letting people know that those verses no longer apply because they've been abrogated.
There is for instance in the Koran "There shall be no compulsion in religion". This Moslems use to deceive non-Moslems into believing that Islam is a faith of peace.
It's not abrogated either. The law of apostasy comes from hadiths, and when hadiths contradict Quran, the hadiths should be thrown out.They don't mention it's been abrogated - which is why apostates can be killed.
That's a fair enough question.
For a start they contradict each other.
One must therefore prevail.
This site (not an Islamic one but they seem to be well researched/referenced) states that one abrogates the other
This Islamic site shows that Book 60 was revealed before Book 9 and the rule of abrogation is that when two verses contradict then the latter verse abrogates the earlier verse
The US supplied him weapons. So much for moral outrage!
The verse 9:29 doesn't abrogate the verse, it's understood it's being stated because the conditions of the other verse are there. It meant specifically the people of that region whom fought the Prophet (saw), and it referred to them generally. The conditions to not fight those whom don't fight you are not gone, they are not abrogated.
The verse is understood with the condition to fight only those whom fight you...the verse is not abrogated but explains the context of the verse 9:29 as well as other verses that talk about fighting.
This is your false interpretation of Quran.
It's not abrogated either. The law of apostasy comes from hadiths, and when hadiths contradict Quran, the hadiths should be thrown out.
The verse is an eternal principle that you cannot force religion on people, because religion is something to be practiced freely. This never changes.
NONSENSE!I believe that the public apostasy of a knowledgeable person raised as a Muslim in a proper Islamic State and who is a citizen of that state... that is viewed as treason to the state, and that is why it may be punishable by death after other measures are taken to avoid it if possible
If 9.29 doesn't 'abrogate' 60.8-9 then it's simply expanding on the criteria by which you can fight which still means that you can wage war on those who don't believe as you do which is STILL against JJWhite's use of the verse.The verse 9:29 doesn't abrogate the verse, it's understood it's being stated because the conditions of the other verse are there. It meant specifically the people of that region whom fought the Prophet (saw), and it referred to them generally. The conditions to not fight those whom don't fight you are not gone, they are not abrogated.
That's not wholly true either. Those that believe in the killing of Apostates cite the Koran for this tooIt's not abrogated either. The law of apostasy comes from hadiths, and when hadiths contradict Quran, the hadiths should be thrown out.
The verse is an eternal principle that you cannot force religion on people, because religion is something to be practiced freely. This never changes.
I'm going to PM you a portion of M.H. Kamali's book 'Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence' that is on the topic of abrogation. It will kind of give you an idea how there's a lot more to abrogation than that, and how different scholars have different opinions on what abrogation entails, when it can applied, what can abrogate what, etc. Cool?
Then your interpretation is out of kilter with 1,400 years of jurisprudence.
Thank you for the 11 PM's. Information over-load.
If you've got information specifically about these two verses that would be helpful to the current discussion.
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