Islam doesn't condone terror

Servant of Jesus · Feb 23, 2011

Libya is a another good example of how Islam operates: Muslims following the example of their founder, Muhammed, and murdering even their fellow Muslims because they dare to demand freedoms that most of us take for granted.

So much for Islam not condoning terror.

plenary · Feb 24, 2011

Libya is a another good example of how Islam operates: Muslims following the example of their founder, Muhammed, and murdering even their fellow Muslims because they dare to demand freedoms that most of us take for granted.

So much for Islam not condoning terror.

It's just utterly crazy to speak of Islam as the "religion of peace", but that doesn't mean there are no people who claim it to be just that... Quite on the contrary....

And instead of pasting 100 pages, it is enough to quote Jesus Christ Himself:

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Where are the good fruits of Muhammad? Where are they? Where are the good fruits of Islam?

The fruits of Muhammad were slaughter (his own words), lies and deceit...

For goodness sake, open your eyes....

Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land."

Muhammad didn't even know what a prophet is supposed to be...

Montalban · Feb 24, 2011

AskTheFamily said:
If you read the link, you would see he talked about conditional verses and general verses. The conditional verses give the conditions in which it stated to fight. If ever it is stated to fight without condition, it is understood it means in context of the conditions put forward in the conditional verses.

And I explained this with examples

Anyone who is openly critical of Islam is an 'enemy'.

You can call this 'defensive' without them ever having actually incited violence against Islam.

Tariki · Feb 24, 2011

plenary said:
Where are the good fruits of Muhammad? Where are they? Where are the good fruits of Islam?

For goodness sake, open your eyes....

By their fruits shall you know them. Just so. Yes, we should open our eyes.

It all seems to be a case of "my book is better than your book", but to adapt a few words of Jesus.....And do not presume to say to yourselves, We have a better book than the Muslims, for I tell you, God is able from any paper at all to make many better books.......

And maybe a retelling of the Good samaritian would be apt, perhaps how Christ would tell it now.....

Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A Christian happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Buddhist, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Muslim, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him, he said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.

Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?

The expert in the law replied, The one who had mercy on him.
Jesus told him, Go and do likewise.

One definition of a Christian is.....Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

Possibly, to receive the grace to reach such a state one must actually BEGIN to look for the log in one's own eye?

My apologies for the rant, but really I can see why I wanted out.......

Montalban · Feb 24, 2011

Tariki said:
By their fruits shall you know them. Just so. Yes, we should open our eyes.

It all seems to be a case of "my book is better than your book", but to adapt a few words of Jesus.....And do not presume to say to yourselves, We have a better book than the Muslims, for I tell you, God is able from any paper at all to make many better books.......
.

That's a massive misrepresentation of what Jesus' message was.

Jesus himself went into the temple and over-turned the tables of the money lenders.

He didn't say "I know that's wrong, but I'll just let them go about their business"

plenary · Feb 24, 2011

By their fruits shall you know them. Just so. Yes, we should open our eyes.

It all seems to be a case of "my book is better than your book", but to adapt a few words of Jesus.....And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have a better book than the Muslims,’ for I tell you, God is able from any paper at all to make many better books.......

What do you think, what will happen, with a doctrine in which "holy battle" is the highest virtue? When the human race is able to turn a peaceful message into carnage, what do you think what will happen with a vile message, as depicted in the Quran?

Perhaps you can tell your story to the Christian copts of Egypt, or the families of the victims of suicide bombings....

Or maybe, Tariki, it is a good idea for you to go on vacation to the Islamic republic of Iran... I think they will be really open to your interpretation of the compassionate samaritan...

Montalban · Feb 24, 2011

People seem to think that when Jesus says "Judge ye not" that we can't say an action is sinful.

A policeman can think an action is unlawful and arrest someone to stop them doing that.

But the 'utimate judge' may in the trial hear of things that the policeman was not aware of, seeing into his heart and releasing him.

God gives us ideals so we know what is meant to be done, and what isn't meant to be done.

Killing people in the name of their god, as Moslems do is not part of God's plan.

It would be remiss of me as a Christian not to say so.

However what happens to Moslems who do this - that's up to God.

JJWhite · Feb 24, 2011

Montalban said:
People seem to think that when Jesus says "Judge ye not" that we can't say an action is sinful.

A policeman can think an action is unlawful and arrest someone to stop them doing that.

But the 'utimate judge' may in the trial hear of things that the policeman was not aware of, seeing into his heart and releasing him.

God gives us ideals so we know what is meant to be done, and what isn't meant to be done.

Killing people in the name of their god, as Moslems do is not part of God's plan.

It would be remiss of me as a Christian not to say so.

However what happens to Moslems who do this - that's up to God.

Though I don't generally agree with your understandings and stances on Muslim positions, I do agree with this idea of yours... that we should speak out against what is wrong without judging the fate of the person.

Montalban · Feb 25, 2011

JJWhite said:
Though I don't generally agree with your understandings and stances on Muslim positions, I do agree with this idea of yours... that we should speak out against what is wrong without judging the fate of the person.

There are occasions when even you and I will agree.

People who don't speak out against evil are complaisant in it

Servant of Jesus · Feb 25, 2011

Now that the people of Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, and other Arab countries are shedding the yokes of political oppression, they should also shed the yoke of their religious oppression.

Tariki · Feb 25, 2011

plenary said:
Or maybe, Tariki, it is a good idea for you to go on vacation to the Islamic republic of Iran... I think they will be really open to your interpretation of the compassionate samaritan...

Plenary,

You miss the implication of the retelling.

Tariki · Feb 25, 2011

Montalban said:
There are occasions when even you and I will agree.

People who don't speak out against evil are complaisant in it

And there are those who would only see evil as they only see the speck in their brother's eye.

Tariki · Feb 25, 2011

Montalban said:
That's a massive misrepresentation of what Jesus' message was.

Jesus himself went into the temple and over-turned the tables of the money lenders.

He didn't say "I know that's wrong, but I'll just let them go about their business"

Once again, another total failure to SEE, to HEAR, yet I may well have helped by saying I was adapting the words of Jesus. They were an adaptation of the words of John the Baptist. My apologies.

Nevertheless, it is about bringing fruits worthy of repentance, rather than what is more often than not brought to the table of this forum.

You see it or you do not.

Servant of Jesus · Feb 25, 2011

A reminder of the BIG PICTURE: the way God wants us to behave in this world:

Matthew 22:

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
-------------------------

So we earnestly have to ask ourselves: is this the behaviour that our faith demands? is this the behaviour that the founder of our faith encourages and emulates?

For Christians, the answer is easy.

And we haven't even touched on the eternal hope that Christianity offers- forgiveness of sins, no matter how vile a life we have led in the past- and a place with God in heaven.

Again, I would encourage those who are following here to at least give Christianity a chance- check out the link at the top of the Christian Forums page as a start.

.

b&wpac7 · Feb 25, 2011

Servant of Jesus said:
So we earnestly have to ask ourselves: is this the behaviour that our faith demands? is this the behaviour that the founder of our faith encourages and emulates?

Yes, since both passages are taken from our scriptures and...

well, our founder would be God so it's His plan anyway.

Montalban · Feb 25, 2011

Tariki said:
And there are those who would only see evil as they only see the speck in their brother's eye.

You're welcome to ignore evil wherever you see it because you're worried about being judgmental

Montalban · Feb 25, 2011

Tariki said:
Once again, another total failure to SEE, to HEAR, yet I may well have helped by saying I was adapting the words of Jesus.

You did say Jesus. But it's still a misrepresentation of the message.

Tariki said:
They were an adaptation of the words of John the Baptist. My apologies.

Not accepted because you resume your insult of saying 'failure to SEE, to Hear' etc., even capitalising the words. And you put it in the context of Jesus

You could have been quoting from Deuteronomy 17:13 for all I care. The point about Christianity is that not being in judgment doesn't mean saying that an evil act isn't an evil act

Tariki said:
Nevertheless, it is about bringing fruits worthy of repentance, rather than what is more often than not brought to the table of this forum.

You see it or you do not.

Appealing to people just to 'get it' doesn't help either.

You're welcome to deal with the topic of the OP and the evidence presented, or you're equally welcome to be disdainful of people and avoid an intellectual discussion because people just aren't going to get it.

FRM48 · Feb 25, 2011

I already removed the log from my own eye,it was so big Jesus had to help me,once I was blind but now I can see.And what I can see on the horizon is so horrifying that I must shout it from the rooftops.If we don't deal with the Jihadists then there will be attacks far worse than 911.If you wan't to stick your head in the sand go right ahead,but don't look for me to do the same.I will do everything in my power to keep my family from burning in the fire of allah's wrath.If you wan't to ignore the same kind of threats that were heard right before Hitler started killing Jews ,Go ahead,but as for me I will stand with the Jews shouting from the top the rooftops,"NEVER AGAIN",right before we all Lock and Load in defense of the innocent.And while your over in Iran say hello to President Imanutjob.

Montalban · Feb 25, 2011

The odd thing is it's okay for a Buddhist suggesting Christians are doing wrong in pointing out that terrorism is wrong. But it's bad for Christians to point out terrorism is wrong.

Not only is it hypocritical, it's also shows no sense of proportion.

It's like someone saying "You shouldn't kill people" and they reply "Well at least I don't wear furs!"

simonpeter · Feb 26, 2011

The hatred displayed by 'Christians' here goes against Jesus' exhortation that we should love everyone unconditionally.

Islam doesn't condone terror

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