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Isaiah 54, a prediction for Islam?

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anatolian

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1Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. 2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; 3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. 7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. 9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. 10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. 11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. 12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. 13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. 14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. 15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. 16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

And in Genesis
21:17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 21:18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."

what you think?
 

LittleLambofJesus

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Well, the audience of that passage was clearly the Israelis, and therefore it was a passage speaking to the Jews.

I wouldn't call it so much a prediction for Islam as an inspiration.
I would agree. It sounds a lot like the foundation in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation of which I am studying on that particular chapter now.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559...emic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book

Reve 21:12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:............
............19 The foundations of the wall of the city [were] adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation [was] jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates [were] twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city [was] pure gold, like transparent glass.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP1.htm
THE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD
 
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français

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well, let's see.. isaiah 52 is talking about the people of israel. 53 has been disputed between israel and the messiah, but as much as i dislike to admit it, i believe it's talking about israel, and so i'm assuming 54 is as well.

i don't understand how on earth that predicts islam.. that makes no sense.

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/2354.htm - site of interest on isaiah 54 and it talking about israel and all.

if you know the tanakh well, you will know that never is mohammad predicted.. never. keep bringing verses, but i promise you every one will be debunked. the only verse i can think of that clearly points out to mohammad is isaiah 29, where it predicts a false prophet who will be illeterate.
 
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Chalnoth

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the only verse i can think of that clearly points out to mohammad is isaiah 29, where it predicts a false prophet who will be illeterate.
Illiterate? Well, I don't think that would apply to Muhammad. Wasn't he supposed to be the author of the Qur'an?
 
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français

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Illiterate? Well, I don't think that would apply to Muhammad. Wasn't he supposed to be the author of the Qur'an?

yeah, but muslims claim he was illeterate. (hence, that's prolly why he was so good at poetry, as a way to remember things. studies have shown that poetry is much more common for those who can't read or write then it is for those who can.)
 
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anatolian

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yeah, but muslims claim he was illeterate. (hence, that's prolly why he was so good at poetry, as a way to remember things. studies have shown that poetry is much more common for those who can't read or write then it is for those who can.)
some say He copied many thigs from Bible some say He was illitrate this is how He could do a good poetry*..
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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It sounds a lot like the foundation in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation of which I am studying on that particular chapter now.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559...emic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book

Reve 21:12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:............
............19 The foundations of the wall of the city [were] adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation [was] jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates [were] twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city [was] pure gold, like transparent glass.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP1.htm
THE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD[/quote]
Again this may be a double prophecy like many others in the OT.The ultimate prophecy was fullfiled with islam
Double pophecy? It is all about Israel, Judah and Jerusalem, nothing to do with Islam or Mecca LOL.

John 11:48 "If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place/topon <5117> and nation."
 
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Islam_mulia

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It amused me to read this explanation. Christians are so fond of twisting the OT verses, so much so that when Jews read them to mean Israel they forcefully say they were referring to Jesus.


Quite honestyly, I have never seen a convincing argument that the OT verses were referring to Jesus.
 
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français

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It amused me to read this explanation. Christians are so fond of twisting the OT verses, so much so that when Jews read them to mean Israel they forcefully say they were referring to Jesus.

like i said, I believe isaiah 53 is referring to israel.

and the vast majority of prophesies of jesus HAVE come true. and they WERE predicting the messiah.



Quite honestyly, I have never seen a convincing argument that the OT verses were referring to Jesus.
so you think that strengthens islam at all? no, it WEAKENS islam. it only strengthens judaism. by all means, let's convert to judaism!
 
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Islam_mulia

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like i said, I believe isaiah 53 is referring to israel.
Interesting! The majority of Christians here would stand up to say Isaiah 53 of the 'Suffering Servant' was referring to Jesus. Glad you're not on their side of fruitless interpretation.

and the vast majority of prophesies of jesus HAVE come true. and they WERE predicting the messiah.
I beg to differ. You can turn, twist, roll the verses of the OT it will still not read 'Jesus'.

so you think that strengthens islam at all? no, it WEAKENS islam. it only strengthens judaism. by all means, let's convert to judaism!
How does it stregthen Judaism???
 
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français

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How does it stregthen Judaism???

because it only tries to show that jesus didn't fufill the prophesies, hence, he's not the messiah.. which would make them deny jesus, so they would deny chrsitianity AND islam. so they would go to judaism prolly!!
 
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Islam_mulia

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because it only tries to show that jesus didn't fufill the prophesies, hence, he's not the messiah.. which would make them deny jesus, so they would deny chrsitianity AND islam. so they would go to judaism prolly!!
In the first place, they might not be 'prophecies' ater all. The author, called Matthew, was fond of taking OT verses out of context and referring them to prophecies of Jesus.

This is not about accepting or denying Jesus. This is about outright misinterpreting OT text to prove a point.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by kjf512

like i said, I believe isaiah 53 is referring to israel.
Interesting! The majority of Christians here would stand up to say Isaiah 53 of the 'Suffering Servant' was referring to Jesus. Glad you're not on their side of fruitless interpretation.
It could be BOTH. In either case, the LORD is the King of Israel, whether it is symbolic of "spiritual Israel in Christ" or "physical Israel of Moses"

2 Corin 12:15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the LORD, [is] in your midst; You shall see disaster no more.
 
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peepnklown

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Anatolian said:
Isaiah 54

Unhappily, I feel like Muslims are falling into the same trap that Christianity has faced and still faces: grasping for support from the Hebrew Bible when there is none.

Isaiah 54 mimics Isaiah 52 and Isaiah 53: they all colorfully describe the redemption of Israel in full view of the gentiles who are her [Israel] previous persecutors; while Isaiah 54 goes on to describe the cheerful fate for the Jewish people.

Isaiah 54 ends: “this is the heritage of the servants of the Lord [Israel] and their vindication is from Me [God]…’

Anatolian said:
Genesis 21:17-18

I think Muslims are grasping at something that isn’t there: in no way does the Hebrew point to Islam [a new religion].
 
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