Is your Church Accepting to all?

[Flynmonkie]

Yesterday, I got a chance to visit with my neighbor. We were talking about Church and other really neat things (I am such a junkie! ) But she told me they recently had a meeting about accepting a man that was or had been convicted of child molestation in the past. She is a rather quiet sweet woman. And she shared with me her shock that over three quarters of the group said NO! And the whole idea became heated!

Well my jaw dropped. She was very concerned about this but was too afraid to speak up with so many against it. I told her I thought that it would be natural that we would have feelings of concern! I would not call that sinful, a test, but not sinful. (To tell the truth, honestly deep down it bothers me a bit too) But that is not our responsibility to decide whom hears Gods message or not. We should never turn away those whom are earnestly seeking. God will protect us; he builds the church of sinners. All sins are created equal. She agreed, but she said "I was just too afraid to speak up", she said "Luckily the pastor said this, but it caused so many arguments, so I stayed quiet."

Apparently, this turned into quite a fiasco and nothing is resolved yet.

I just remember The Parable of the Lost Sheep The Religious Leaders and Gentiles that were so angry at Christ for eating with the sinners, the outcasts…. they wanted to kill him! But what did he say?

Luke 15
1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

I have heard this many times, in many ways. The way a person dresses. Because they are not married in the eyes of the state. Because they used to belong to a faith that allowed them more than one wife. They do not attend often enough Blah Blah Blah...

Just where is the line drawn? I mean I know if people are not earnestly seeking him, but I am speaking of those whom are. When are we to determine how and when they will be brought to the knowledge God wants for us? Just a topic that always seems to mystify me because I see it so often.

Another point, someone asked in another thread for a verse that showed all sins are created equal. So I posted:

James 2:10-11 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

But someone came up with an alternate meaning… And after further review…..this verse is not actually saying all sins are created equal?

I am wondering what your views are on this? Would there be any person you would not allow in your Church? Are there any rules in the Bible on this? Are all sins equal in the eyes of God or just our sinful nature (I know about the 7 sins God hates! Proverbs 6:16-19) Do you have any scripture on these subjects?

 

[LynneClomina]

my church is.

i think this person would have no problem at my church, provided they are in fact truly repentant. and it is possible that the Spirit will give a witness to church leaders if this person is not being honest, y'know?

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Knowing the background my church would accept him but we would try and inusre that he was never around any children without supervision.

 

[Flynmonkie]

my church is.

i think this person would have no problem at my church, provided they are in fact truly repentant. and it is possible that the Spirit will give a witness to church leaders if this person is not being honest, y'know?

That is what I believe, but are all sins equal in Gods eyes? Is there some other than to deny him that are unforgiveable? That no acceptance is allowed into the church? I mean I have even seen message boards that do not allow you to post "with the christians" because you are not a member of a church!!

I remember many people that were members of the church that would only participate on Sundays...the rest of the week they spent in very "secular" activities etc....But no one threw them out! Who determines earnestly seeking? How do we really know? Other than to trust God?

 

[Flynmonkie]

Knowing the background my church would accept him but we would try and inusre that he was never around any children without supervision.

That is something she and I discussed too. She helps run the Nursery. It just feels awful though thinking in that manner! To both of us. When we thought of keeping him away from children and being watchful we both felt embarrassed and shameful...but it is scary!

 

[bigsierra]

I don't think anyone should be denied, attendence. If I knew someone was a molester, I wouldn't send my kids to their sunday school class, if they were leading one. I would join them in Bible study though.

To deny anyone attendace to fellowship, would be to deny the gospel and our call.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The not allowing them to be around children if the church has knowledge is a liability issue. It is more than just a spiritual issue that has to be considered. The reason I know this it is has come up at my church, where I am a youth leader. The man in question has been wrongfully accused and it is going through the system right now. We fully expect him to be exonorated but since the accusation has been made, and not by a church member (I cannot go into anymore detail), at the adive of Christian legal counsel he was asked to step down from a position of leadership and not be alone with children until everything is done with. There is a very real liability issue and given the current awards handed out by juries it could close the doors to a church that wasn't aware of it or didn't take steps to protect it's parishoner's children. If there is that liability just for one accused the liability is higher for one convicted.

 

[Flynmonkie]

The not allowing them to be around children if the church has knowledge is a liability issue. It is more than just a spiritual issue that has to be considered. If there is that liability just for one accused the liability is higher for one convicted.

Oh yes I agree with this! I am aware of the legal aspects - you are right. I am just thinking of the shameful feelings we had etc personally..the spiritual side of it. Should we have felt wrong. I guess this is probably something left to the leaders of the church. I know this is a broad subject, but I know many people whom experience this in one way or the other.

 

[artybloke]

The not allowing them to be around children if the church has knowledge is a liability issue.

Everyone who works with children in the church - in England at least - should be police-checked first, before they're allowed in the Sunday School door. This is not anymore a question merely of trust - it's actually a legal requirement. It's good in a way, because it makes everyone equal. Anyone who has a conviction for child molestation should be automatically barred from working with children. Apart from anything else, you can make yourself liable to being sued if anything happens.

The question of whether to accept them into church is another matter; and the answer is yes they should be. Christ talked to sinners and prostitutes all the time, and the heart of the Christian message is forgiveness. Not easy to achieve; and maybe we would need to aspire to it in stages; but even people we would normally affect to despise, Christ loves and Christ forgives.

 

[JillLars]

I am surprised that the church had a meeting on this issue. I somehow fail to see how his past sins are the business of everyone else in the church. I do agree that he should be kept away from children, but that is something the pastor should speak with him about, and they should come to an agreement on it if he is to join the church. The pastor should also make clear to him that he is not being allowed to be near children due to a liability issue, not because of any doubt in his repentence, and committment to bettering himself in the Lord.

It saddens me to know that the body of Christ can sometimes be so judgemental. This is something I have feared greatly when looking for a church home. I live with my fiance (spiritually we have committed ourselves to each other and God, we have not legalized it yet though, but we are in 2 years.) I was very afraid of being judged, and condemned by other Christians. I have been lucky enough to find a supportive church home that understands and supports the committment my fiance and I have made.

I will pray for this church home, I understand how hard it must be for the people involved in this decision, especially if they have children, but we cannot pick and choose who can join the body of Christ, and we need to trust that God will give us all the strength to support the other members of our churches.

 

[ej]

My church has this printed at the top of every newsletter, and the Priest or Cardinal says something to the same effect before giving Mass, EVERY time

Welcome: If you are a visitor to the Cathedral, we want you to know how welcome you are -
whether you have come from another part of the country, from across the world,
or simply from another parish.

 

[Lotar]

What church has a vote to see who can become a member?

I can understand their apprehension, though I do believe they were wrong to reject him.

 

[Phoebe]

Was he transferring from another congregation?
Actually, it is something that councils vote on. Usually, there is no discussion on the matter. The matter is brought up, and a vote is taken to accept or deny the transfer. I'd forgotten about that voting until now. I voted on one or two transfers when I was on council. It's usually just a formality.

I can understand that the congregation would have to worry about their insurance being dropped when admitting a known child molester.

 

[La Bonita Zorilla]

t she told me they recently had a meeting about accepting a man that was or had been convicted of child molestation in the past.

The complexities of this situation are not immediately available here, so the best response is to pray for the man and the church, and let it go. I'm not aware of particular denominations or independent churches that vote like this but it happens. In the novel by George Elliot, Silas Marner, Silas was a cataleptic-like an ephileptic, only his fits were of being immobile and unaware of his surroundings. He had a cataleptic fit while counting the collection; and his colleague doing the counting took advantage of the situation and stole the collection plate proceeds and blamed it on Silas. Silas was put out of the church, but I don't remember if it said how-he may have just been warned off by the rector, or there may have been a vote. I don't know.

My father-in-law is a pastor. He has twice, he said, banned men from the church who were excessively forward and inappropriate with single women there. It caused him great pain but he did what he felt was necessary. He did this unofficially-if the men had wanted to appeal to his superiors or the members they could have but they didn't, most likely because they were caught red-handed. I think this is common in churches with a singles group or any number of singles.

About the man, the details are important:

-how long ago was he convicted, anyway?

-did he go through treatment?

-did he admit what he did and that it was wrong?

-or does he claim he was 'railroaded' and deny he did anything?

-what was his relationship to the child? was it a family member, or, was he something like a Sunday School teacher or a scout leader?

-was it just one child (most offenders do it to more than one child)?

-is he on probation, or parole? Is he in compliance with his P.O.?

And probably more. Many offenders must register as sex offenders, some for the rest of their lives. I think we've all seen news reports of released offenders being warned off by neighbors. It may be UnChristianlike behavior on their part, but people are serious about danger to children.

I think our church would respond as Flesh 99 said. It's not a perfect world.

 

[Celticflower]

I can understand a church not wanting a child molester (accused or convicted) to be involved in any church program dealing with children. But if a sinner is not allowed in the church then none of us should be there!

I have encountered similar feelings in churches. I even have a friend who would not bring her niece to church with her because the girl was gay and a gay friend was denied the right to worship at his home church when he come out of the closet 20 years ago (funny part is it was an Episcopal Church--my how times have changed).

But I have also seen wonderful things happen when a church opens up to people with serious problems. The church I attended in PA opened its doors to a Narc-a-non group for meetings on Thursday nites. Many of the people who attended those meetings came back on a Sunday and found they were as welcome in the pew as they had been in the basement meeting room. Some joined the church and one became very active as a lay minister.

 

[P_G]

But she told me they recently had a meeting about accepting a man that was or had been convicted of child molestation in the past. She is a rather quiet sweet woman. And she shared with me her shock that over three quarters of the group said NO! And the whole idea became heated!

Well my jaw dropped. She was very concerned about this but was too afraid to speak up with so many against it. I told her I thought that it would be natural that we would have feelings of concern! I would not call that sinful, a test, but not sinful. (To tell the truth, honestly deep down it bothers me a bit too) But that is not our responsibility to decide whom hears Gods message or not. We should never turn away those whom are earnestly seeking.

Today you shall be with me in paradise

Do you suppose that man who we are SURE went to heaven
would be accepted into the church?
(question for my Catholic friends is the Thief on the Cross a Cannonized Saint?)

Listen I just had to minister to a skinner (Child Molestor) in the prison I work at.
Very difficult time for me

As a man and a father I wanted to punch him in the face
As a minister I had to tell him that Jesus loved him
As an aquintence from outside I needed to tell him he would need to fight for his life because that is what he will have to do in prison.

A very uncomforatble time trust me.

This man you speak of belongs in church.
Where else should he be?
Did Jesus come for the healthy or the sick?

I concur he is not a cantidate to be a sunday school teacher or work in the youth department. But thats not what is being discussed here is it?

How I despise these so called Christians who determine what sins G-d will forgive. Ones whose hands are so clean that there is not one trace of blood on them - certainly none of Christs blood.

Here is the point

If the blood of Jesus is not sufficiant to cleanse the sin of this man
then it is not sufficiant enough to cleanse the sins of any of us.

Tell your friend to run from that church as fast as she can
and find a place where the gospel is being preached and lived!


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[Protoevangel]

This man you speak of belongs in church.
Where else should he be?
Did Jesus come for the healthy or the sick?

I concur he is not a cantidate to be a sunday school teacher or work in the youth department. But thats not what is being discussed here is it?

Amen! Very well said!

 

[WashedClean]

Here is the point

If the blood of Jesus is not sufficiant to cleanse the sin of this man
then it is not sufficiant enough to cleanse the sins of any of us.

Hey! You took the words out of my mouth!!

Amen Brother!!

WC

 

[theseed]

My church is accepting, for the most part, that is why it is growing so fast, in part. Acceptance does not mean trust though, trust has to be earned, and I would see no problem if parents did not want to trust thier children totally to a former child molestor.

 

[jesusson1]

As long as they truly repent we won’t have a problem with that. We have all kinds of people in our church and let us not forget that we to once were sinful and some of us the chief’s of sinners. But when the Love and Grace of Chri9st enters a mans hearth than we are transformed into the image and likeness of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I understand that molestation is a very bad chrism but if they repent God can even change a child molester to a child of God. Blessings