razeontherock
Well-Known Member
You do realize your purpose in this post is to accuse the brethren, and in so doing you are serving satan?
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It's very clear that your belief is conditional that you get into heaven. This means the purpose of your belief is no more than an insurance policy for you in the event that there is a heaven. The problem with this is if God is all-knowing, then he knows you only believe so you can ensure you go to heaven. Do you think he's going to want people like that going to heaven? Ask a seasoned Christian and I'm sure the answer you'll get is no.
St. Paul was pretty clear:
If there is no resurrection of the dead (i.e. no eternal life) then Christ is not risen. If Christ is not risen then the entirety of the Christian faith is vain and pointless--the entire Christian message is empty and our religion is worthless.
In other words, if there is no resurrection of the dead then there is no Christianity. In which case I would be in the market for another belief system/philosophy/way of life (et al).
As far as heaven is concerned, I don't believe in a place called "heaven" anyway. Rather "heaven" euphemistically refers to God's otherly and ineffable presence. Thus the existence of a place called "heaven" is irrelevant for my faith.
-CryptoLutheran
Leslie - we need to back peddle. Here are the questions again:
If it were proven that there is no eternal life and no heaven:
1) would you still believe that Jesus died for the sins of others?
2) would you still believe that there is a fully omniscient & omnipotent God?
3) would you still maintain your personal relationship with God?
4) Would you still continue to read the Bible and/or go to church?
Both LOCO and CryptoLutheran were able to answer the question just fine. So I know you can too.
I am not an enemy of God. I am an ally of what is real. I have never observed anything which would give me any sense that an omniscient & omnipotent being such as God exists.Intentional or not, pondering such things puts out the Light of the world. Why do you choose to be His enemy like that? [Julian of York verbally demonstrated how to combat such an attack. It will be interesting to see if Cieza has the integrity to handle such an answer]
Cieza said:I am not an enemy of God. I am an ally of what is real. I have never observed anything which would give me any sense that an omniscient & omnipotent being such as God exists.
How can you know for sure the healing of the woman wasn't just a natural process and had nothing to do with Jesus?Hey lots of people have never experienced God. I mean my mother used to talk about healing but I never saw any one healed. That is until many years latter I actually had the privelage of praying for a woman and seeing he instantly healed in Jesus name. Now days God has just done so many things that it is impossible for me to not know he is real. He would have to get me to forget every thing he had ever done, but I know he is not going to do that, he is not a monster. If you want to know what he has done read my testimony pages at Know God Personally
That may be how you interpret it. I'm actually "serving" no one other than myself and those who read my posts.You do realize your purpose in this post is to accuse the brethren, and in so doing you are serving satan?
MY BENIGHTED FRIEND,That may be how you interpret it. I'm actually "serving" no one other than myself and those who read my posts.
I'm not the one who ensures I have no personal relationship with God. That is something God decided. Why he doesn't want a personal relationship with me is something I don't know.
I have better and more interesting things to do with my time than read the Bible or go to church.
If it were proven that there is no eternal life and no heaven:
1) would you still believe that Jesus died for the sins of others?
2) would you still believe that there is a fully omniscient & omnipotent God?
3) would you still maintain your personal relationship with God?
4) Would you still continue to read the Bible and/or go to church?
I have never observed anything which would give me any sense that an omniscient & omnipotent being such as God exists.
If you don't believe unicorns exist, does that make you an enemy of unicorns?
If you recorded God speaking audibly to you and played it back for me to listen to, what would I hear?
If it were proven that there is no eternal life and no heaven:
1) would you still believe that Jesus died for the sins of others?
2) would you still believe that there is a fully omniscient & omnipotent God?
3) would you still maintain your personal relationship with God?
4) Would you still continue to read the Bible and/or go to church?
In other words, if there is no resurrection of the dead then there is no Christianity.
1. Yes, because we know he existed, we know he died for our sins. The bold phrase above does not exclude other possibilities e.g. there may be no heaven but there may be another Garden of Eden.
4. Yes, because the bold phrase does not exclude God, Jesus or Sacred Scripture. It does not exclude a tangible human experience with Christ or Scripture.
1) Yes. I don't believe in eternal life nor heaven, but still believe in Jesus as savior.
2) Yes. What do omniscience and omnipotence have to do with eternity as a concept?
3) Yes. My relationship with God has nothing to do with its duration, nor the duration of my existence.
4) Yes. They are entertaining and encouraging. They make me feel good.
I would have to observe something like the Empire State Building being picked up and set down in a Nebraska cornfield.What sort of observation would you be expecting?I have never observed anything which would give me any sense that an omniscient & omnipotent being such as God exists.
I was created by my parents, not by some kind of supreme being. So if I don't believe a fully omniscient & omnipotent being exists, does that make me an enemy of any such beings?No. The created rebelling against the creator (hence the reference to being an enemy) is vastly different from one disbelieving in a mythical creature (even if the mythical creature had a basis in the history of the animal kingdom).If you don't believe unicorns exist, does that make you an enemy of unicorns?
read the question again: If you recorded God speaking audibly to you and played it back for me to listen to, what would I hear?I'm not sure, but it probably depends on the specific circumstances. Perhaps I could hear Gods voice and you wouldn't if the message wasn't directed at you. What makes you think God's voice could be recorded?If you recorded God speaking audibly to you and played it back for me to listen to, what would I hear?
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