Is Wisdom Greater Than Love?

spockrates · May 2, 2017

Thought it might be interesting to discuss what biblical evidence there is to support the premises that Wisdom or Love is the greater virtue. The idea was born after comparing this biblical passage,

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

with this one,

Proverbs 3:13-15 Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her.

Taken at face value, the first passage asserts Love is greater than Faith and Hope, but it doesn't say it's greater than all virtues. The second passage, however says there's nothing I desire that compares with Wisdom. Since I want both God's wisdom and love, the inference is Wisdom is the greater of the two.

Now I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, and won't be offended if anyone proves me so. I'm more interested it obtaining wisdom about Wisdom and Love than proving anything to anyone, except maybe to myself!

W2L · May 2, 2017

Let me digest that for a while.

W2L · May 2, 2017

Perhaps we love wisdom. Love is a verb while wisdom is a noun.

The love of wisdom is love for the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

Proverbs 8:7 I love those who love me,
And those who seek me diligently will find me.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 2, 2017

spockrates said:
Now I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, and won't be offended if anyone proves me so. I'm more interested it obtaining wisdom about Wisdom and Love than proving anything to anyone, except maybe to myself!

It's not as if wisdom could exist without love, or love without wisdom, is it?

In the last century, some wise folk pointed out that God is not divided up into parts,
and His Gifts, His Life, is not divided up into compartments (that mankind is prone to develop and use).

Even in congregations, some tried to particularize the 'gifts' as if they were each separate or individual things apart from God's Life ....

Abiding with God, His Word Abiding in us, everything of Him is Present as He Pleases.... not one little bit here, one little bit there, or ONE BIG PART OVER THERE !

When people talk with Jesus, they are facing perfect judgment, perfect justice, perfect wisdom, perfect love, perfect forgiveness, perfect knowledge, perfect life all at one time without any separation.

And, wonderful mystery of salvation by God's Choice! >>

Jesus IS our Wisdom, and our Knowledge, and our Redemption,
and
our Atomenment, and our Discipline, and our Judgment, and our Justice,
and
our Mercy, and our Forgiveness, in God's Perfect Purpose beyond our wildest imaginations ! (see all through NT, and OT also)

A Whole Shalom Life - nothing left broken; nothing left missing; completely Healed....

pdudgeon · May 2, 2017

I'll go with 1st Corinthians on this question. Wisdom is indeed priceless, but without the understanding and application of love to Wisdom, we miss the entirety of such a magnanimous and simple gift from God.
Wisdom itself is complex. But when love is added to wisdom, then it is the depth of that love which is the key that unlocks the true reason behind the wisdom itself.

Without love, wisdom and it's discovery is only an academic exercise of acquired knowledge.
With love, wisdom takes on both meaning and relativity, and it's exercise then becomes possible.

spockrates · May 2, 2017

W2L said:
Let me digest that for a while.

No prob!

spockrates · May 2, 2017

W2L · May 2, 2017

spockrates said:
Sounds wise to me! I suppose that Wisdom knows, and Love does. But is doing better than knowing?

Let's consider a person with great love, yet no wisdom:

I believe the knowledge and understanding of love is wisdom.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

spockrates · May 2, 2017

spockrates · May 2, 2017

W2L said:
I believe the knowledge and understanding of love is wisdom.

EDIT:

Makes sense, yes.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:

I guess wisdom reveals how to show compassion, and love motivates us to show compassion. But I'm not sure a compassionate act is love, since a wise act isn't wisdom.

Could it be Love motivates us to act, and wisdom guides our actions, but those things we say and do are neither wisdom nor love?

(Sorry for editing my responses. Will try to better consider what to say before posting.)

spockrates · May 2, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
It's not as if wisdom could exist without love, or love without wisdom, is it?

In the last century, some wise folk pointed out that God is not divided up into parts,
and His Gifts, His Life, is not divided up into compartments (that mankind is prone to develop and use).

Even in congregations, some tried to particularize the 'gifts' as if they were each separate or individual things apart from God's Life ....

Abiding with God, His Word Abiding in us, everything of Him is Present as He Pleases.... not one little bit here, one little bit there, or ONE BIG PART OVER THERE !

When people talk with Jesus, they are facing perfect judgment, perfect justice, perfect wisdom, perfect love, perfect forgiveness, perfect knowledge, perfect life all at one time without any separation.

And, wonderful mystery of salvation by God's Choice! >>

Jesus IS our Wisdom, and our Knowledge, and our Redemption,
and
our Atomenment, and our Discipline, and our Judgment, and our Justice,
and
our Mercy, and our Forgiveness, in God's Perfect Purpose beyond our wildest imaginations ! (see all through NT, and OT also)

A Whole Shalom Life - nothing left broken; nothing left missing; completely Healed....

Yeah, that's right. Wisdom and Love go together.

spockrates · May 2, 2017

pdudgeon said:
I'll go with 1st Corinthians on this question. Wisdom is indeed priceless, but without the understanding and application of love to Wisdom, we miss the entirety of such a magnanimous and simple gift from God.

Thank you, pdudgeon. Your words sound extremely wise to me. Perhaps I'm just foolish, but I can't help wondering how there could be any understanding of love without wisdom, much less any wise application of it.

Wisdom itself is complex. But when love is added to wisdom, then it is the depth of that love which is the key that unlocks the true reason behind the wisdom itself.

Guess I'm not wise enough to understand what the "reason behind wisdom itself" is. Maybe you can explain?

Without love, wisdom and it's discovery is only an academic exercise of acquired knowledge.
With love, wisdom takes on both meaning and relativity, and it's exercise then becomes possible.

Do you mean love gives meaning to the pursuit of wisdom? Not sure, but maybe you're saying the purpose of wisdom is to help us comprehend love?

W2L · May 2, 2017

spockrates said:
EDIT:

Makes sense, yes.

I guess wisdom reveals how to show compassion, and love motivates us to show compassion. But I'm not sure a compassionate act is love, since a wise act isn't wisdom.

Could it be Love motivates us to act, and wisdom guides our actions, but those things we say and do are neither wisdom nor love?

(Sorry for editing my responses. Will try to better consider what to say before posting.)

I dunno bro.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 2, 2017

spockrates said:
I guess wisdom reveals how to show compassion, and love motivates us to show compassion. But I'm not sure a compassionate act is love, since a wise act isn't wisdom.

Or rather Wisdom , as in YHWH, we obey
and when we do righteousness, we obey, thus being wise, compassionate, and loving.
Acting wisely is probably always best (not as man's wisdom goes though, no, never)
although acting like a crazy man once saved King David's Life .....
And likely other times, other folks too, acting crazy, or just being quiet, may well get someone off the hook so to speak... (saving their life, or sparing them from torture or embarrassment or other loss, when appropriate to remain quiet) ...

spockrates said:
Could it be Love motivates us to act, and wisdom guides our actions, but those things we say and do are neither wisdom nor love?

When we abide in JESUS, everything we do , think, speak, and hope for is in God's Love and His Wisdom, same as JESUS Lived ALWAYS.

pdudgeon · May 2, 2017

spockrates said:
Thank you, pdudgeon. Your words sound extremely wise to me. Perhaps I'm just foolish, but I can't help wondering how there could be any understanding of love without wisdom, much less any wise application of it.

Guess I'm not wise enough to understand what the "reason behind wisdom itself" is. Maybe you can explain?

Do you mean love gives meaning to the pursuit of wisdom? Not sure, but maybe you're saying the purpose of wisdom is to help us comprehend love?

you're almost there.
Love is the motivation for both the pursuit to acquire wisdom, as well as the impetus for wisdom's application.

e.g. because we love God and recognize Him as the source of Wisdom, we pursue His wisdom to both understand and to assimilate it into our lives, that we might then learn to see our fellow men as God sees them--not only with wisdom but also with love.

Galatea · May 2, 2017

I think it is important to understand what the Bible means by wisdom. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

"If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

I think fear as in reverence, is meant here. This is not worldly wisdom, but spiritual wisdom.

What is spiritual wisdom? It is accepting Christ as Saviour.

Everytime wisdom is contrasted, it is always with a scorner. What is the person scorning? The salvation that is in Christ.

Christ is the Wisdom of God.

I Corinthian 1:23-24 "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

Verse 30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness, and sanctification and redemption."

Love is not just a verb, it is also a noun. God is love. In I Corinthians 13, you can replace the word charity with the word God and find out things about God's nature.

I Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not God, I am nothing."

Verse 8 "God never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

I say since God is both Love and Wisdom, they are equal in greatness- along with His other attributes. I think I am agreeing with Yeshua, but I am not sure.

James 3:17 "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."

That sounds like love, to me, and God.

spockrates · May 3, 2017

pdudgeon said:
you're almost there.
Love is the motivation for both the pursuit to acquire wisdom,

Apprehended and agreed.

as well as the impetus for wisdom's application.

Wait...what?

e.g. because we love God and recognize Him as the source of Wisdom, we pursue His wisdom to both understand and to assimilate it into our lives, that we might then learn to see our fellow men as God sees them--not only with wisdom but also with love.

We're getting into some deep thoughts, and I'm not much of a swimmer, but I trust you'll help keep my head above water!

When I think of my own flawed understanding of my impetus - of the force that moves me, or that which is the cause of what my body says and does - my soul comes to mind. It is the impetus for every act, as it is me. How then can it be that the love that compels my soul to act is also the love that is the cause of my actions? When love acts within me, does my soul do nothing but observe? Or am I not getting your meaning?

spockrates · May 3, 2017

Galatea said:
I think it is important to understand what the Bible means by wisdom. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

"If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

So glad you could make it, Galatea! I enjoy our conversations. How's it going?

I think fear as in reverence, is meant here. This is not worldly wisdom, but spiritual wisdom.

Not sure how the thing that begins is the same as the thing it begins. A woman raises a starter pistol and pulls the trigger. The runners hear the shot and run. The shot isn't the same as the race, it merely begins (is the cause of) the race. So is our fear of God before we become Christians wisdom, or is this fear merely what begins (or causes us to seek) wisdom?

What is spiritual wisdom? It is accepting Christ as Saviour.

That's wise indeed!

Everytime wisdom is contrasted, it is always with a scorner. What is the person scorning? The salvation that is in Christ.

Christ is the Wisdom of God.

I Corinthian 1:23-24 "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

Verse 30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness, and sanctification and redemption."

Love is not just a verb, it is also a noun. God is love. In I Corinthians 13, you can replace the word charity with the word God and find out things about God's nature.

You touched on something important to understanding this topic, I think. John writes, "God is love". Paul writes, "Christ Jesus...is made unto us wisdom". Does this mean the Son of God is both Love and Wisdom?

I Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy and understand all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not God, I am nothing."

Verse 8 "God never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

I say since God is both Love and Wisdom, they are equal in greatness- along with His other attributes. I think I am agreeing with Yeshua, but I am not sure.

Previous question answered! Yes, I think you must be right.

James 3:17 "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."

That sounds like love, to me, and God.

So this discussion may end sooner than I expected. God is Love and Wisdom - whether symbolically or literally, I don't know, but that's OK. So when Solomon writes of Wisdom: "Nothing you desire compares with her," he might be saying, "Nothing you desire compares with God."

I find it interesting that even non-biblical characters agree. For Plato writes that his mentor Socrates said, "I am called wise, for my hearers always imagine that I myself possess wisdom, which I find wanting in others. But the truth is, O men of Athens, that God alone is wise, and...the wisdom of men is little or nothing." (Apology 23)

* * *

I guess the only question left to answer is this: Is it possible for one trait of God to be greater than another trait of God? Is it possible the Love that God is, is greater than the Wisdom that God is? Or are they, as you say equally great?

(Let me know if you come up with any other reasons why this isn't a possibility, as I'm not yet sure it's impossible. I'll also give it some thought and see if any Wisdom comes to me.)

spockrates · May 3, 2017

W2L said:
I dunno bro.

No worries!

spockrates · May 3, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Or rather Wisdom , as in YHWH, we obey
and when we do righteousness, we obey, thus being wise, compassionate, and loving.
Acting wisely is probably always best (not as man's wisdom goes though, no, never)
although acting like a crazy man once saved King David's Life .....
And likely other times, other folks too, acting crazy, or just being quiet, may well get someone off the hook so to speak... (saving their life, or sparing them from torture or embarrassment or other loss, when appropriate to remain quiet) ...

When we abide in JESUS, everything we do , think, speak, and hope for is in God's Love and His Wisdom, same as JESUS Lived ALWAYS.

Yeah, I guess that's true if we sometimes abide and sometimes don't.

Is Wisdom Greater Than Love?

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