Someone said: Calvinism teaches that the damned are created so that God may demostrate his wrath by destroying them.
If so, what is the reasoning behind this?
If so, what is the reasoning behind this?
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Is This Truly a Teaching of Calvinism?
- Thread starter motherprayer
- Start date
E
Eddie L
Guest
Hmm... I've never seen it put quite that way, except maybe by those who misunderstand Calvinism. I think a more biblical statement is that God demonstrates His glory by pouring His wrath on the wicked, and that His wrath against the wicked is a means God uses to demonstrate the glory of His mercy to the redeemed.
In other words, if there weren't any unredeemed sinners, there'd be no glory demonstrated by the redemption of the elect.
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"What is unseen is eternal"
While I am not entirely convinced your representation of Calvinism is accurate for all Calvinists, do you allude to Romans 9:10-22 (esp. v. 22), Jude 4, and 2 Pet. 2:12? That might help narrow the focus on Scripture, though the whole of Scripture also needs to be borne in mind.
Intuitively, the representation seems to suggest that demonstration of God's holiness and justice is the goal. That would accord with Rom. 9. In that case, Paul's rationale seems rather blunt. Who is the clay (us) that complains against the Potter (God), "Why did You make me thus"?
One must likewise insist the Bible attributes only holiness and righteousness to God--not sin and unrighteousness. And the Bible portrays humans as often more wicked and guilty before God than we imagine or believe.
Also note that behind the Calvinist representation as you word it lies biblical themes regarding divine sovereignty and human responsibility.
Often in my experience, Christians seem unwilling to accept the implications of various Scripture texts relevant to that issue. Often such texts nonchalantly mention divine sovereignty and human responsibility more or less in the same breath.
Partly the Christian's unwillingness to accept such texts seems to stem from the implication (often denied in nearby texts) of unrighteous causality on God's part (e.g., see Psalm 105:25, Zech. 8:10, 2 Sam 24:1, Rom. 11:8) ... as if divine causality must conform to our understanding of it in all respects.
God somehow ordains sin, but neither approves nor is author of it. Granted the view of God is not easy to accept. I for one am unclear as to why God created in the beginning--other than in general terms concerning God's glory. But no worldview or Christian theology is without difficulty in one area or another, and the question for me, at least, is what the Bible says, harmonized as best we can as a whole.
However it works, in my belief structure humans are both responsible to God and not absolutely free of God's sovereign control. And God's judgment is always just even if it does not always conform to our preference or sense of justice.
Intuitively, the representation seems to suggest that demonstration of God's holiness and justice is the goal. That would accord with Rom. 9. In that case, Paul's rationale seems rather blunt. Who is the clay (us) that complains against the Potter (God), "Why did You make me thus"?
One must likewise insist the Bible attributes only holiness and righteousness to God--not sin and unrighteousness. And the Bible portrays humans as often more wicked and guilty before God than we imagine or believe.
Also note that behind the Calvinist representation as you word it lies biblical themes regarding divine sovereignty and human responsibility.
Often in my experience, Christians seem unwilling to accept the implications of various Scripture texts relevant to that issue. Often such texts nonchalantly mention divine sovereignty and human responsibility more or less in the same breath.
Partly the Christian's unwillingness to accept such texts seems to stem from the implication (often denied in nearby texts) of unrighteous causality on God's part (e.g., see Psalm 105:25, Zech. 8:10, 2 Sam 24:1, Rom. 11:8) ... as if divine causality must conform to our understanding of it in all respects.
God somehow ordains sin, but neither approves nor is author of it. Granted the view of God is not easy to accept. I for one am unclear as to why God created in the beginning--other than in general terms concerning God's glory. But no worldview or Christian theology is without difficulty in one area or another, and the question for me, at least, is what the Bible says, harmonized as best we can as a whole.
However it works, in my belief structure humans are both responsible to God and not absolutely free of God's sovereign control. And God's judgment is always just even if it does not always conform to our preference or sense of justice.
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