Is this cool or what!?

[Hoonbaba]

Hi guys,

I was on the CARM forums and someone said the following about Charismatic Catholics:

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Charismatic/Evangelical Catholics. 1992 marked the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Catholic charismatic renewal movement. Emerging from humble beginnings in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1967, the late 1960s and 1970s saw the Catholic charismatic renewal flourish in the church. While it experienced slow decline in the 1980s, it remains one of the most energetic forces in the Catholic church. It is estimated that 10 million American Catholics have been involved in the renewal, and that worldwide Catholic involvement may be as high as 50 to 65 million. Catholics now make up more than a fifth of the worldwide Pentecostal-charismatic constituency.

Like the broader movement, charismatic Catholics emphasize the charisma or gifts of the Holy Spirit, the importance of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit-filled life. Charismatic Catholics tend to be more evangelical in belief, emphasizing personal faith and trust in Christ, and the assurance of salvation. Reformed theologian J. I. Packer comments concerning charismatic Catholic piety:

It is a fact that in charismatic Catholicism, joyful trust in Christ as one's sin-bearing Savior and loving fellowship with him in his risen life have shifted the traditional devotional focus away from the somber disciplines of self-denial and suffering and away, too, from the anxieties about merit and destiny to which the formulations of the Council of Trent naturally give rise. Does Catholic doctrine as Trent defined it permit assurance of salvation based on once-for-all justification through faith? Opinions, both Protestant and Catholic, differ about that. Nevertheless, Catholic charismatics do observably enjoy this assurance, while yet maintaining humility, a sense of sin, and a life of repentance often more successfully than do their Protestant counterparts. And Protestant and Catholic charismatic teaching on the Christian life is to all intents and purposes identical. Is this not significant for the Christian future?

It is true that many charismatic Catholics describe themselves as "born again, Spirit-filled Catholics."

Along with possessing a Pentecostal piety, charismatic Catholics generally tend to give Scripture more of an authoritative place in their personal spiritual lives. However, many (though by no means all) charismatic Catholics also have a strong devotion to Mary. While the issue of Marian devotion tends to be a stumbling block between evangelical Protestants and charismatic Catholics, evangelical Protestants surely have more in common with charismatic Catholics than with any other type of Catholics.

Long-time renewal leader, Ralph Martin, is one of the most recognizable American Catholic charismatics/evangelicals.
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The comments sound as if Catholics worship Mary...ugghh....I don't know why so many people believe that Catholics worship Mary but anyway, all the other comments are encouraging to hear!!

I seriously think this particular group of Catholics will link the Evangelicals and Catholics together as one! Maybe then Jesus' prayer will become a reality once again!

I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me (John 17:23)

Now THAT'S good news! Actually one major dream/vision I have is to see Catholics worshipping alongside with Evangelicals, even if it's just for a moment. It'll be an exciting thing to see! I'm sure God will be VERY VERY pleased to see that happen and I sincerely hope I get the privilege of somehow being part of this grand vision!

God bless!

-Jason

 

[VOW]

To Jason:

I can understand your excitement with this, and I do agree, it is promising in its entirety.

But to one who has been at this Catholics Apologetics stuff for a while now, there is a lot of left-handed complimenting going on in this article. CARM can be an informative site, but it is still very much anti-Catholic, in that it has the traditional hangups about the relationship of Mary in the Catholic Church, and the over-emphasis of Catholics not "believing in Scripture." If you look closely, you'll see that Matt Slick is essentially saying, "Look, guys, in this Charismatic Catholic movement, the Catholics are BEHAVING more like Protestants. Hooray!"

If the man were to come to Catholicism with the open heart and open mind that you have shown to us, he could learn a lot more, and overcome some of his prejudice. We can only pray.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Hoonbaba]

Originally posted by VOW
To Jason:

I can understand your excitement with this, and I do agree, it is promising in its entirety.

But to one who has been at this Catholics Apologetics stuff for a while now, there is a lot of left-handed complimenting going on in this article. CARM can be an informative site, but it is still very much anti-Catholic, in that it has the traditional hangups about the relationship of Mary in the Catholic Church, and the over-emphasis of Catholics not "believing in Scripture." If you look closely, you'll see that Matt Slick is essentially saying, "Look, guys, in this Charismatic Catholic movement, the Catholics are BEHAVING more like Protestants. Hooray!"

If the man were to come to Catholicism with the open heart and open mind that you have shown to us, he could learn a lot more, and overcome some of his prejudice. We can only pray.



Peace be with you,
~VOW

Hi VOW,

Actually that wasn't written by Matt Slick. It was posted by someone else on the Catholicism forum. I don't think it was intended to bash the Catholic church.

God bless!

-Jason

 

[patriarch]

I also have reservations about the article, but given that it was not written by a Catholic his perceptions are understandable.

From my standpoint, the abandonment by many Catholic Charismatics of traditional pieties was a weakness that I think time is remedying. In general we were overwhelmed by the absolute reality and power of the charisms to the point where it seemed to throw older pieties into question. About twenty-five years into this, however, I realized that I am not going to get to Heaven by singing songs and that a life of contemplative prayer and penance definitely needs to be part of the picture. My guess is that others around the world are waking up to this as well.

But I totally agree that the Charismatic Renewal offers the best possible bridge between Catholicism and the Protestant world. Really, I think that this is where the re-union of Christendom is going to happen, and my guess is that it will happen by Marian charismatics effectively conveying the truth about her to their pentecostal counterparts. Essentially, once you grasp the truth about her, you understand the Church in principle.

We do now have a common vocabulary with which to discuss these things, and most importantly understand emphatically that both camps are "in Christ." All of this makes dialogue possible. I doubt very much that the re-union of Christendom is going to happen by high level talks between prelates but at the grass roots, with Hoonbaba sharing his discoveries with his friends, for example, and similar conversations.

Nevertheless, it seems absolutely critical that the most doctrinally astute people in the Catholic Church look very carefully into the theology of the charismtic renewal and understand its utter compatiblility with Catholicism. Nothing has been more harmful to the Church and the cause of Christ than the pecksniffian attitude with which many Catholic intellectuals have approached the renewal. I am thinking of periodicals such as Crisis, the Wanderer and their readers, together with most bishops and priests. We never would have had this crisis in the priesthood if this spirituality had been imported into the seminaries twenty and thirty years ago, as it should have been.

But enough.

Lee