Is there supposed to be a devil to constantly challange man? Since we have knowlege of good and evil, do we need to constantly be tested so that we do not abuse this, or rather is it that the devil (or concept of one, should your faith not say 'a devil') be excluse to our needs?
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Is there SUPPOSED to be a devil?
- Thread starter Blissman
- Start date
Chilldogg77
Dei, Amoris, Veritatis
what does "the devil be excluse to our needs" mean?
Anyway, I say no. The devil was the most powerful angel that God created, and when the devil was tested, he rejected God. Life is a test, the devil is just the one whispering ideas of how to bring about destruction and pain and hurt God. He has so much pride that he wants to be worshipped instead of God. While God can bring good about from anything, including sin and wrongdoing, no sin is necessary or willed by God. In other words, God can test us himself. It would be like if you were running an obstacle course and I was constantly trying to trip you up, and get you to fall or give up. You should probably ask for help. So while the devil's actions aren't willed, they are accounted for and can be used against him. I hope that makes sense.
Anyway, I say no. The devil was the most powerful angel that God created, and when the devil was tested, he rejected God. Life is a test, the devil is just the one whispering ideas of how to bring about destruction and pain and hurt God. He has so much pride that he wants to be worshipped instead of God. While God can bring good about from anything, including sin and wrongdoing, no sin is necessary or willed by God. In other words, God can test us himself. It would be like if you were running an obstacle course and I was constantly trying to trip you up, and get you to fall or give up. You should probably ask for help. So while the devil's actions aren't willed, they are accounted for and can be used against him. I hope that makes sense.
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It's hard to say really. The Judeo-Christian Satan has changed a lot throughout history, almost as much as their God has.
Most other religions don't have anything that would correspond, so it's not a case of we have to have a Satan.
Most other religions don't have anything that would correspond, so it's not a case of we have to have a Satan.
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i agree that we dont have to have Satan. he is just another thing of this world to be fought against. did you know that the word Satan literally means "enemy" ?
but having Satan makes God more real to us. Its like a war that only has one side. that doesn't feel very intense does it? but when you add an adversary, you need a strong alliegence/unity with God.
but having Satan makes God more real to us. Its like a war that only has one side. that doesn't feel very intense does it? but when you add an adversary, you need a strong alliegence/unity with God.
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i dont know. why would it serve him to? if we are in need of an adversary, and it brings us into closer unity with God, why would he want to smite him? God doesn't want docile creatures to control. he wants passionate followers, and the devil (if you ask me) helps create those who are on fire for God.
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ps139
Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!
Evil is an inevitable result of free will. Freedom means choice. What can you choose? If you choose good, then you have obviously not chosen evil. The only way you can freely choose good is if evil is an option. So for choice to exist, both good and evil have to be options of the choice. If there were no ability to choose evil, then you could not actually choose good. Any free choice requires at least two things to choose from.
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
Well-Known Member
Blissman said:
Yes. There is supposed to be a devil. God foreordained all things, and the devil is one. There is a war down here, of course. But it isn't truly about us; it's about God and satan's animosity for Him. He was created to be a servant, and was highest in command, but wasn't content to be number one servant. So he convinced one third of the angels to rebel against God with him. But we can see the extent of the delusion that already existed in him, from the time he developed a sinful heart to the time of the rebellion. (Who can beat God? Yet the devil bothers to try...)
Although he has fallen out of heaven much like the way he convinced Adam & Eve to do what it took to get them ousted from the garden, the devil and his fallen legions are still subject to God's authority, and are servants albeit wicked and rebellious ones, just as we are servants although we have fallen through Adam. But there is a redemption program for us-none for the angels. (Of course, Adam & Eve were both redeemed, as evidenced by God's provision of a blood sacrifice/animal covering that He provided in lieu of the insufficient fig leaves that did not involve the blood sacrifice appointed by God.)
So is satan still in power. But he is under God's command, and while he abuses his power, his tactics only serve to the good of those who are called by God. God uses satan's tactics to cleanse His servants of sin by diligent and patient obedience, it teaches God's servants skill and tactics for engaging in this spiritual war, and in all cases it serves to achieve the ultimate purposes of God. The devil cannot but fail in all his workings. Whether we fall or stand depends on our response to God in accordance with His will.
God can smite the devil, but it wouldn't achieve His purposes to do so. There is still a war to be fought, and God still has work for the devil to do, which always leads to satan's own defeat. Check this action: satan, by killing Jesus on the cross, sought to do his evil against God, but his deed only lead to the ultimate salvation plan that opened the only door available for man to be reuinited with God. Don't worry-satan only fulfills the purposes of God, even when it looks completely opposite.
satan's forces were on the move in Germany in WWII as he sought to do away with God's people. But in the end, what happened? The opposite. As a direct result, the Jews got their land back after somewhere close to 2000 years off the map. He's powerful, but God is all-powerful. And sovereign. God has him on a chain.
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Routerider
Disciple of the Annunaki Alliance
Do souls have a choice to sin in heaven? I understand that there is no sin in heaven, God obviously isn't too against the idea of robots.ps139 said:
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CushBabylonian
Active Member
Everything has an opposite. For something to exist at one end of the spectrum, the opposite sits on the other. If you believe in God and all the things he can do for you, you must also realize there is a Devil and what he can do for you (if you make that choice).
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ps139
Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!
I think that the souls who are in heaven are there because they have completely rejected and destroyed their will to sin. The choosing period is on earth. I think the option of sin does not cross the mind of a soul in heaven. They have already gone through the "choosing" period.Routerider said:
You may then say, "Well how did Satan, who was once in heaven, choose to sin?" And I will answer that I have no idea, I only know that angels are much different than humans, and the answer lies somewhere in that difference. What kind or degree of difference I do not think we will know until we have already made our own choice.
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