Is there such a thing as a true atheist?

Servant222 · Mar 24, 2007

Most dictionaries define an atheist as One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God. I would probably add that a true atheist is one who has at least considered the notion of a God and then has disbelieved or denied God's existence.

Now, of course, if you deny the existence of God, you must also deny the existence of any God-given moral code, or internal sense of right and wrong; you have a perfect right to embrace whatever moral code- or none- that you want; so anything goes. Of course, you also deny that there is any guiding of your life by the Spirit and, of course, no salvation through Christ.

When I look at some of the heinous crimes committed by barbarians around the world, I do something think that they are proof positive that atheists really do exist. But then, another explanation is that they could equally be simply soldiers of the devil- and therefore would at least have to acknowledge that God exists.

So is there such a thing as a true atheist, or are those who claim to be so just in total denial, or following satan?

Servant222 · Mar 24, 2007

Someone who professes to be an atheist in our society can murder, steal, embezzle, commit adultery, indulge in perversions; in short, do whatever they want. The only limit is one they impose on themselves. Even a country's laws don't need to be followed; you can break any of the rules you want and the only restriction is a selfish one- you don't want to be caught and have to suffer the consequences.

Oye11 · Mar 24, 2007

Actually many atheists, especially ones on the internet, are on a moral crusade seeing Christians as responsible for much of the evil in the world, this while seeing themselves as margainalized and persecuted. Their "god" is actually "reason," and though naturally what is viewed as "reasonable" will vary from person to person, there are commonalities as they have their heros and read a lot of the same websites. If Christians only had a fraction of their evangelistic zeal...

Servant222 · Mar 24, 2007

Oh to be sure, some of those who profess to be atheists are often incredibly zeolous- but is that because they really believe, or are they just in denial and need to spend all that time justifying that denial? I would think that a true atheist couldn't care less about defending what they believe, or bother to waste any effort denying the existence of God.

Of course, most people who claim to be atheists do in fact live by some reasonable moral code; if that wasn't the case, we should immediately lock up everyone who claims to be an atheist. So doesn't the very acceptance of a moral code suggest that they must acknowledge that God exists?

However, there certainly seem to be more than a few homo sapiens who do seem to prove by their actions that they really do not have any moral code whatsoever- but then again, does this prove they are true atheists or just soldiers of the devil?

Oye11 · Mar 24, 2007

Servant222 said:
So doesn't the very acceptance of a moral code suggest that they must acknowledge that God exists?

Good question! There is where the coffee house hours long discussions that go nowhere begin... I`ve had a few in General Apologetics, are at least 20 regular atheists hanging out there...

Leah · Mar 24, 2007

Well the way I see it: an atheist is someone who chooses not to believe in any kind of god, deity or anything like that. However, in order for that person to choose to not even believe in god(s), he/she would have had to have heard or known about a god in the first place from someone else or from an experience. How can you not believe in something you've never even heard of?

Therefore, there is no such thing as true atheists for the simple fact that they've heard about God, but didn't want any part of Him due to their own selfishness.

TwistTim · Mar 24, 2007

http://www.tektonics.org/parody/fundyath.html

I doubt there is anyone who meets all those requirements.

Or who is actually willing to buck the system for fear of "the man" who is pretty much unseen, and isn't the figurehead if he's seen....

GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta · Mar 28, 2007

Of course there are such things as true atheists.

Sometimes, we as Christians forget that our worldview is not the same of everyone else's. We often interject our opinions and feelings and beliefs onto others who may not have the same opinions, beliefs, views, even convictions.

I also wanted to add that many atheists will disagree with your assessment that there is no idea of right or wrong without a belief in God. I even disagree with your assessment, as most human beings, even to an extent, have a bit of morality in them that is nearly universal. Things like killing for nothing aren't very common. Simply because atheists may believe in similar moral philosophies as Christians does not mean that they believe the belief to come from God.

GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta · Mar 28, 2007

Imana said:
Well the way I see it: an atheist is someone who chooses not to believe in any kind of god, deity or anything like that. However, in order for that person to choose to not even believe in god(s), he/she would have had to have heard or known about a god in the first place from someone else or from an experience. How can you not believe in something you've never even heard of?

Therefore, there is no such thing as true atheists for the simple fact that they've heard about God, but didn't want any part of Him due to their own selfishness.

Why do atheists have to be "selfish"? What if they simply don't believe? How is such being selfish, if that is their belief? I will agree with you if they take it to mean that they can do anything, without fear of repurcussion. However, what if it is merely just a belief that there isn't a God? How is this selfish?

Servant222 · Mar 28, 2007

GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta said:
Sometimes, we as Christians forget that our worldview is not the same of everyone else's. We often interject our opinions and feelings and beliefs onto others who may not have the same opinions, beliefs, views, even convictions.

Are you suggesting it is wrong to stand up for what you believe is right? The Incas believed in human sacrifices- so if they were around today, would you say we would have no business interferring in their religious practices?

I think there are a number of fundamental human rights and laws that are universal- murder for example- that should always be condemned by society as a whole; they should certainly never be ignored.

I even disagree with your assessment, as most human beings, even to an extent, have a bit of morality in them that is nearly universal. Things like killing for nothing aren't very common. Simply because atheists may believe in similar moral philosophies as Christians does not mean that they believe the belief to come from God.

I would suggest, but of course can offer no prove, that our internal moral code is God-given; and therefore is evidence for the existence of God. Where would an atheist think that internal moral code comes from?

But more to the point, since a true atheist does not believe they will ever be held to account for their actions, anything goes and an atheist can never really accuse anyone else of doing anything wrong. One atheist may hold to a certain moral code, but why would it be any more justified than the moral code of someone who believes in a different standard- like, that it's fine to pillage and murder?

Servant222 · Mar 28, 2007

To me, anyone that disregards the basic human rights and laws that most of us on this planet subscribe to can only be a soldier of the devil, and we should condemn their practices in the strongest way possible.

JonF · Mar 29, 2007

Servant222 said:
Now, of course, if you deny the existence of God, you must also deny the existence of any God-given moral code, or internal sense of right and wrong; you have a perfect right to embrace whatever moral code- or none- that you want; so anything goes.

While I believe a denial of nihilism is predicate on the existence of God, you will be hard pressed to get non-theist to agree with this.

repentant · Mar 29, 2007

No, there is no such thing as atheism. Atheist means "without God". No one can be without God, for give is in everyone, and everything, everywhere all the time. So no one can be without Him.

Now there are people who don't believe in Him. But atheist is not a word they should use to describe it..

Servant222 · Mar 31, 2007

JonF said:
While I believe a denial of nihilism is predicate on the existence of God, you will be hard pressed to get non-theist to agree with this.

Can you explain this a little more?

tulc · Mar 31, 2007

To me, anyone that disregards the basic human rights and laws that most of us on this planet subscribe to can only be a soldier of the devil, and we should condemn their practices in the strongest way possible.

uhmmm aren't most of the people fighting in the war on terror (on both sides) God fearing people? Didn't the people who flew planes into the twin towers believe in God? Didn't the Christians who slaughterd thousands of other Christians during the crusades believe in God? (not to mention the Muslims they killed) Wasn't almost every war in the last 20 centuries fought between God believers? Didn't Christians (Catholics and Protestants) imprison and execute other Christians because they "believed wrong"? Seems to me believing in God doesn't mean you're immune to doing great evil.
tulc(just a thought)

kulenok · Mar 31, 2007

the way I see it,if there is a true christian, there is also a true athist.

hosea6v6 · Mar 31, 2007

The bible says "the fool hath said in his heart There is no God" psalms 14:1

In the Heb. tex it reads like this.
The fool hath said in his heart no God.
There is no God was added, but you may say there is no God until you face death.

There are many fools in this world, but every one knows there is a God, if they still with a spirit. When God takes your spirit back you will then be a dead soul and in a dark hot place...alone.

Hosea6:6

scraparcs · Mar 31, 2007

Servant222 said:
Most dictionaries define an atheist as One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God. I would probably add that a true atheist is one who has at least considered the notion of a God and then has disbelieved or denied God's existence.

Now, of course, if you deny the existence of God, you must also deny the existence of any God-given moral code, or internal sense of right and wrong;

Why must you deny an internal sense of right and wrong?

you have a perfect right to embrace whatever moral code- or none- that you want; so anything goes. Of course, you also deny that there is any guiding of your life by the Spirit and, of course, no salvation through Christ.

When I look at some of the heinous crimes committed by barbarians around the world, I do something think that they are proof positive that atheists really do exist. But then, another explanation is that they could equally be simply soldiers of the devil- and therefore would at least have to acknowledge that God exists.

If we are all sinners, why would horrible crimes be proof of atheists? You know, most heinous crimes are committed by believers in God -- probably because there are a lot more believers than non-believers.

Servant222 said:
Someone who professes to be an atheist in our society can murder, steal, embezzle, commit adultery, indulge in perversions; in short, do whatever they want. The only limit is one they impose on themselves. Even a country's laws don't need to be followed; you can break any of the rules you want and the only restriction is a selfish one- you don't want to be caught and have to suffer the consequences.

Christians do that too. We follow laws because we don't want to be guilty of sin and have to suffer and/or have Jesus suffer in our place. Perfect contrition, being sorry for sin only because we love God and we know sin offends God, is a very rare thing.

Servant222 said:
Oh to be sure, some of those who profess to be atheists are often incredibly zeolous- but is that because they really believe, or are they just in denial and need to spend all that time justifying that denial? I would think that a true atheist couldn't care less about defending what they believe, or bother to waste any effort denying the existence of God.

The atheists that don't care aren't online arguing about it, so you don't see them.

People are all pretty alike, religious beliefs aside. Some like to defend religious belief, some don't.

Of course, most people who claim to be atheists do in fact live by some reasonable moral code; if that wasn't the case, we should immediately lock up everyone who claims to be an atheist. So doesn't the very acceptance of a moral code suggest that they must acknowledge that God exists?

Why would a moral code be associated with the existence of God? I'm perplexed there.

However, there certainly seem to be more than a few homo sapiens who do seem to prove by their actions that they really do not have any moral code whatsoever- but then again, does this prove they are true atheists or just soldiers of the devil?

It proves that like every other human, they're sinners with a sin nature. Most of those that prove no moral code by their actions are likely believers anyway -- just because there are more believers than non-believers.

Servant222 · Apr 30, 2007

Whether something is right or wrong can only be defined on the basis of whether it violates a certain standard. An aethist can make up any standard they want, or have no standard.

Those who follow Christ have a clearly defined standard, and therefore it is clear when they have sinned. This doesn't mean they don't sin- only that it is clear when they have.

Andy Broadley · Apr 30, 2007

The old wisdom states that there are no athiests in the front line

Is there such a thing as a true atheist?

Is there such a thing as a true atheist?

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