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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is there Objective Morality?
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 76744794" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>So where in the brain can we measure consciousness. You have just disregarded the majority of the worlds population who disagree and say spirituality is real including ancient peoples who have survived quiet well.</p><p></p><p>Spirituality is a fact because we can experience something bigger than ourselves. Transcendence or spirituality is recognized in human development of higher needs such as with Maslows hierarchy of human needs. You cannot equate spirituality, consciousness and transcendence with scientific analyses because its not a mechanical or material thing and yet is real.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00b3b3"><em>Spirituality is a broad concept with room for many perspectives. In general, it includes <strong>a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life</strong>. As such, it is a universal human experience—something that touches us all.</em></span></p><p><a href="https://www.takingcharge.csh.umn.edu/what-spirituality" target="_blank">What Is Spirituality? | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing</a></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00b3b3"><em>The hierarchy of needs is a psychological idea and also an assessment tool, particularly in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education" target="_blank">education</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care" target="_blank">healthcare</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_work" target="_blank">social work</a>.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-:1-7" target="_blank">[7]</a> The hierarchy remains a popular framework in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology" target="_blank">sociology</a> research, including management training<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-bbc-8" target="_blank">[8]</a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education" target="_blank">higher education</a>.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-9" target="_blank">[9]</a></em></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00b3b3"><em>The hierarchy of needs is used to study how humans intrinsically partake in behavioral <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation" target="_blank">motivation</a>. Maslow used the terms "physiological", "safety", "belonging and love", "social needs" or "esteem", "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization" target="_blank">self-actualization</a>" and "<a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transcendent" target="_blank">transcendence</a>" to describe the pattern through which human needs and motivations generally move.</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #00b3b3"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs" target="_blank">Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia</a></span></p><p><span style="color: #00b3b3"></span></p><p> So your saying according to the science method nothing immaterial has been found to have an actual existence. But if science can only test for materialism how can it ever find immaterial stuff. </p><p></p><p>But I disagree that nothing immaterial has been found to explain reality. For example the universe has been explained by mathematicians and theoretical physicists as being made of Math and information. One that is Mental, being made up of mind. These don't have a material basis but rather use abstract ideas and yet are theories being proposed to help explain reality and often fit observations better that other ideas.</p><p></p><p> How can the science method allow for the immaterial when you just said it doesn't meet the evidence according to the science method. That's circular reasoning. Its setting the rules for how to measure reality and therefore what can only be found. So even if there was something immaterial methodological naturalism going to try and pin a material explanation on it. </p><p></p><p>In other word to verify the immaterial we have to use a measuring method that can only measure the material. Immaterial stuff is ruled out before we even start to work it out.</p><p></p><p> No one is making stuff up. Ideas like consciousness and the Mental universe are being proposed as possible alternatives for how we can understand reality with arguments. Its just that the science method cannot measure these ideas and never will so we have to broaden our thinking about what constitutes reality.</p><p></p><p> What do you mean, can you elaborate for me please.</p><p></p><p> Well that's what I was sort of asking you as you just said above that there is stuff under the umbrella of “reality” that can be versified in other ways besides the science method. You mentioned we can verify these things by our 5 senses and we don't need science for everything.</p><p></p><p>So if these other 'things' or ideas, influences, effects can be measured by other ways besides science that what is it. I suggest conscious experience is one as perhaps its the only thing we can really say is real because everything we do is based on how we experience the world.</p><p></p><p> No worries Ken. Thanks for your input.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 76744794, member: 342064"] So where in the brain can we measure consciousness. You have just disregarded the majority of the worlds population who disagree and say spirituality is real including ancient peoples who have survived quiet well. Spirituality is a fact because we can experience something bigger than ourselves. Transcendence or spirituality is recognized in human development of higher needs such as with Maslows hierarchy of human needs. You cannot equate spirituality, consciousness and transcendence with scientific analyses because its not a mechanical or material thing and yet is real. [COLOR=#00b3b3][I]Spirituality is a broad concept with room for many perspectives. In general, it includes [B]a sense of connection to something bigger than ourselves, and it typically involves a search for meaning in life[/B]. As such, it is a universal human experience—something that touches us all.[/I][/COLOR] [URL='https://www.takingcharge.csh.umn.edu/what-spirituality']What Is Spirituality? | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing[/URL] [COLOR=#00b3b3][I]The hierarchy of needs is a psychological idea and also an assessment tool, particularly in [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education']education[/URL], [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care']healthcare[/URL] and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_work']social work[/URL].[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-:1-7'][7][/URL] The hierarchy remains a popular framework in [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology']sociology[/URL] research, including management training[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-bbc-8'][8][/URL] and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education']higher education[/URL].[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#cite_note-9'][9][/URL][/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=#00b3b3][I]The hierarchy of needs is used to study how humans intrinsically partake in behavioral [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation']motivation[/URL]. Maslow used the terms "physiological", "safety", "belonging and love", "social needs" or "esteem", "[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-actualization']self-actualization[/URL]" and "[URL='https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transcendent']transcendence[/URL]" to describe the pattern through which human needs and motivations generally move.[/I] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs']Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia[/URL] [/COLOR] So your saying according to the science method nothing immaterial has been found to have an actual existence. But if science can only test for materialism how can it ever find immaterial stuff. But I disagree that nothing immaterial has been found to explain reality. For example the universe has been explained by mathematicians and theoretical physicists as being made of Math and information. One that is Mental, being made up of mind. These don't have a material basis but rather use abstract ideas and yet are theories being proposed to help explain reality and often fit observations better that other ideas. How can the science method allow for the immaterial when you just said it doesn't meet the evidence according to the science method. That's circular reasoning. Its setting the rules for how to measure reality and therefore what can only be found. So even if there was something immaterial methodological naturalism going to try and pin a material explanation on it. In other word to verify the immaterial we have to use a measuring method that can only measure the material. Immaterial stuff is ruled out before we even start to work it out. No one is making stuff up. Ideas like consciousness and the Mental universe are being proposed as possible alternatives for how we can understand reality with arguments. Its just that the science method cannot measure these ideas and never will so we have to broaden our thinking about what constitutes reality. What do you mean, can you elaborate for me please. Well that's what I was sort of asking you as you just said above that there is stuff under the umbrella of “reality” that can be versified in other ways besides the science method. You mentioned we can verify these things by our 5 senses and we don't need science for everything. So if these other 'things' or ideas, influences, effects can be measured by other ways besides science that what is it. I suggest conscious experience is one as perhaps its the only thing we can really say is real because everything we do is based on how we experience the world. No worries Ken. Thanks for your input. [/QUOTE]
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