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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is there Objective Morality?
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<blockquote data-quote="stevevw" data-source="post: 76315763" data-attributes="member: 342064"><p>Yes and here we have the issue. If morality is objective, if there is a right way to behave in a moral situation then it is silly to say we cannot find a good or best way to behave. </p><p></p><p>As per my example of a women being attacked in the street. We reason what is the right way to act. Under a subjective morality we would have to say that the attackers actions are not really wrong beyond any subjective view so we can't really say its morally wrong (if there is such a thing as morality). </p><p></p><p>But say a person says attacking a women "is not wrong in my subjective view" and someone says "Yes it is objectively wrong to attack a women in the street"can we find a right way to act morally in with this disagreement. </p><p></p><p>Surely we can. Intuitively we don't just walk on by and say "Oh well that's just someone acting out their subjective view and this doesnt matter". We stop and know that this is wrong in some way. We can then follow this up with some rational thinking and logic and come to an objectively right way to behave in that situation. </p><p></p><p>Otherwise we could never protest and make clear and confident claims that any act like rape, child abuse, stealing old ladies hangbags, tortuting babies is never really wrong. It would just be my opinion that I think its wrong (for this reaon or that reason) which is not a truth statement beyond the person expressing the moral view. </p><p></p><p> What evidence.</p><p></p><p> What evidence.</p></blockquote><p> their experience, [/quote] Yes and its intuition that gives us our moral sense which usually through our experience of lived morality. How do you tell the credibility of the presenter if they don't respect "Honesty" and "Truth". You may be able to ask questions but what if they have become a good liar. Ah, So heres the issue. As I think you claimed in another post that I am using my God as support for objective morality thus being dihonest. But now you say that using God as evidence is questionable. So logic tells us that trying to use my God as support is fruitless and therefore if I am to support objective morality I need to find another way. </p><p></p><p>Thus the only way and what just happens to be the best way for most things as humans is through rationality and logic. If there are moral objective then we must be able at least sometimes find them through reasoning and logic. </p><p></p><p> So the question becomes "Is there are right answer (way to behave) in moral situations. Can we find the best and most good way to act morally that is beyond any subjective person. </p><p></p><p> The best way to act morally in any situation as far as I understand it should tick a lot of boxes as far as whats good, best but not because of any of these things as they are just the outcomes. We intuitively know what is the right and wrong so we are halfway there. </p><p></p><p>Logic is also important in determining which is the best way to act and makes the most sense. We would not think that it would be best to allow women to be attacked in the street for any reason. So thats a given. We can further refine things to find a factual way to act thats better then all other ways.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="stevevw, post: 76315763, member: 342064"] Yes and here we have the issue. If morality is objective, if there is a right way to behave in a moral situation then it is silly to say we cannot find a good or best way to behave. As per my example of a women being attacked in the street. We reason what is the right way to act. Under a subjective morality we would have to say that the attackers actions are not really wrong beyond any subjective view so we can't really say its morally wrong (if there is such a thing as morality). But say a person says attacking a women "is not wrong in my subjective view" and someone says "Yes it is objectively wrong to attack a women in the street"can we find a right way to act morally in with this disagreement. Surely we can. Intuitively we don't just walk on by and say "Oh well that's just someone acting out their subjective view and this doesnt matter". We stop and know that this is wrong in some way. We can then follow this up with some rational thinking and logic and come to an objectively right way to behave in that situation. Otherwise we could never protest and make clear and confident claims that any act like rape, child abuse, stealing old ladies hangbags, tortuting babies is never really wrong. It would just be my opinion that I think its wrong (for this reaon or that reason) which is not a truth statement beyond the person expressing the moral view. What evidence. What evidence. [/quote] their experience, [/quote] Yes and its intuition that gives us our moral sense which usually through our experience of lived morality. How do you tell the credibility of the presenter if they don't respect "Honesty" and "Truth". You may be able to ask questions but what if they have become a good liar. Ah, So heres the issue. As I think you claimed in another post that I am using my God as support for objective morality thus being dihonest. But now you say that using God as evidence is questionable. So logic tells us that trying to use my God as support is fruitless and therefore if I am to support objective morality I need to find another way. Thus the only way and what just happens to be the best way for most things as humans is through rationality and logic. If there are moral objective then we must be able at least sometimes find them through reasoning and logic. So the question becomes "Is there are right answer (way to behave) in moral situations. Can we find the best and most good way to act morally that is beyond any subjective person. The best way to act morally in any situation as far as I understand it should tick a lot of boxes as far as whats good, best but not because of any of these things as they are just the outcomes. We intuitively know what is the right and wrong so we are halfway there. Logic is also important in determining which is the best way to act and makes the most sense. We would not think that it would be best to allow women to be attacked in the street for any reason. So thats a given. We can further refine things to find a factual way to act thats better then all other ways. [/QUOTE]
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