Is there anything wrong with reformed theology?

[faceofbear]

I was on another post and someone mentioned to be careful of MacArthur because he is reformed. Now, reformed theology makes the most sense of that which I've looked into so far. However, I have noticed on things that a lot of reformed Churches don't seem as charismatic as other churches. By that I mean, they don't seem very enthusiastic about praising God and a lot of people have very little fruit in these churches. About every 10 people I meet, there may be one who is actually in love with God. I was just wondering if this is common in most churches or if it's something to do with false teachings in reformed theology? I know this is a baptist forum so probably most are reformed, but I was just curious as to thoughts about it. Of course the original reformers seemed in love with God, so maybe it's just the churches? They just seem to put on Sunday faces.

 

[desmalia]

Can you clarify what you mean by "in love with God" first? I think that may help others respond to what you are asking. Thanks.

 

[DeaconDean]

Is there anything wrong with reformed theology?

Yes.

It takes God and rightfully puts Him on His throne as Sovereign whereas other "theologies" put man at the head because of his "free will".

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Leimeng]

~ Like most theological systems, reformed theology starts out with a set of suppositions and forces Gods Word to fit into its box. When God's Word is read in context though, a lot of the arguments of reformed theology fall apart on its misuse of Scripture and language.
~ A lot of people from all theological walks replace their relationship with God with their theological constructs because it is easier to think about God than actually have a relationship with Him (from our stand point).
~ Theology cannot save you, cannot fix your head, cannot fix your heart, it cannot fix your life at all.
~ The basis for all relationship with God is through Jesus. The acid test for Christianity is the Fruit of the Spirit, primarily Love. That is how you know if one is a Christian or not. Many of the reformers did not display any of these important traits which is another reason to question them...
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[DeaconDean]

~ Like most theological systems, reformed theology starts out with a set of suppositions and forces Gods Word to fit into its box.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[wpbarrett]

so many people depend on what someone else is telling them what the Bible says or means. I have read the Bible for many years but really didn't start to understand it deeply until I fully (without Pride) gave my life to Christ 2 years ago. I pray to the Holy Spirit everytime I open the Bible to study or read. The Holy Spirit will not lead you wrong in Scripture. That answered many questions about mans opinions for me.

God's Grace Billy

 

[mlqurgw]

I was on another post and someone mentioned to be careful of MacArthur because he is reformed. Now, reformed theology makes the most sense of that which I've looked into so far. However, I have noticed on things that a lot of reformed Churches don't seem as charismatic as other churches. By that I mean, they don't seem very enthusiastic about praising God and a lot of people have very little fruit in these churches. About every 10 people I meet, there may be one who is actually in love with God. I was just wondering if this is common in most churches or if it's something to do with false teachings in reformed theology? I know this is a baptist forum so probably most are reformed, but I was just curious as to thoughts about it. Of course the original reformers seemed in love with God, so maybe it's just the churches? They just seem to put on Sunday faces.

First MacArthur isn't Reformed he is Dispensational. He does hold to the doctrines of grace commonly called the five points of Calvinism though. As far as Reformed theology goes you said that it seems to make the most sense and that is good because it is not only Biblical but logical as a system. But one can be a dead Calvinist just as easily as one can be a dead Arminian. Doctrine is extremely important but doctrine isn't salvation. Christ is. Our doctrine must be wrapped in Christ or it is only doctrine. Part of the reason many Reformed churches seem so cold is because they preach doctrine instead of Christ. The doctrine is true but it has no real power without Christ. That which gives Reformed doctrine life and power is Christ. Where ever you find a Reformed church that preaches Christ and doctrine which flows from His person and work you find life and love. The problem isn't with the doctrine but with doctrine divorced from Christ.

 

[desmalia]

My Arminian Baptist church is extremely reserved. You rarely see anyone raise a hand or clap to the music.

 

[wpbarrett]

First MacArthur isn't Reformed he is Dispensational. He does hold to the doctrines of grace commonly called the five points of Calvinism though. As far as Reformed theology goes you said that it seems to make the most sense and that is good because it is not only Biblical but logical as a system. But one can be a dead Calvinist just as easily as one can be a dead Arminian. Doctrine is extremely important but doctrine isn't salvation. Christ is. Our doctrine must be wrapped in Christ or it is only doctrine. Part of the reason many Reformed churches seem so cold is because they preach doctrine instead of Christ. The doctrine is true but it has no real power without Christ. That which gives Reformed doctrine life and power is Christ. Where ever you find a Reformed church that preaches Christ and doctrine which flows from His person and work you find life and love. The problem isn't with the doctrine but with doctrine divorced from Christ.

well said, Amen to that, Billy

 

[faceofbear]

I think by in love I simply mean, none of them really seem to want to worship God. They don't seem to be consistent in love and very self centered. I've gone to MacArthurs church and 2 churches near me (both Master Seminary Graduates) and both churches just seem dead. Pastorwise, the most helpful Pastors are actually the ones who didn't graduate from Masters or even have a degree and love just seems to flow from them, where anyone who has been to Masters Seminary or College seems very judgmental. MacArthurs church was the same. Then I went to Francis Chans church and it took me going a few times for anyone to notice I was new, but everyone there just seems much more pleasant and just excited to be in the church. MacArthur seems wise/intelligent, but he seems to have a problem with pride, as do a lot of reformers it seems. And as far as salvation goes, the doctrine involving salvation is important because the risk of a soul is at stake. I for one, have become severely confused on what salvation is and even knowing if I am saved because if it's solely of God then how can God wish everyone to repent and not perish, yet only save some? I don't know... right now it seems to be just a big blur to me and I'm just thoroughly confused and it makes me feel like giving up because I feel like everyone is just lying (not referring to the forums -- but just in general). If I didn't know my soul was at stake (like most unbelievers), I would have given up long ago. IDK. blah.

 

[desmalia]

I think by in love I simply mean, none of them really seem to want to worship God. They don't seem to be consistent in love and very self centered. I've gone to MacArthurs church and 2 churches near me (both Master Seminary Graduates) and both churches just seem dead. Pastorwise, the most helpful Pastors are actually the ones who didn't graduate from Masters or even have a degree and love just seems to flow from them, where anyone who has been to Masters Seminary or College seems very judgmental. MacArthurs church was the same. Then I went to Francis Chans church and it took me going a few times for anyone to notice I was new, but everyone there just seems much more pleasant and just excited to be in the church. MacArthur seems wise/intelligent, but he seems to have a problem with pride, as do a lot of reformers it seems. And as far as salvation goes, the doctrine involving salvation is important because the risk of a soul is at stake. I for one, have become severely confused on what salvation is and even knowing if I am saved because if it's solely of God then how can God wish everyone to repent and not perish, yet only save some? I don't know... right now it seems to be just a big blur to me and I'm just thoroughly confused and it makes me feel like giving up because I feel like everyone is just lying (not referring to the forums -- but just in general). If I didn't know my soul was at stake (like most unbelievers), I would have given up long ago. IDK. blah.

That is a tough spot to be in, and I pray the Lord brings you through and grants you wisdom, clarity, and peace in this. Have you taken the time to sit down and talk with anyone about this IRL? I would think that there must be very qualified people you could talk with at Grace Community. Forums can breed a lot of confusion and are certainly not something I recommend for anyone who is confused about such deep matters of the faith.

I'm wondering if perhaps your use of the word love might be a bit of a specific expectation that might not be quite accurate in some cases. For instance, I've heard people say that MacArthur is prideful, judgmental, etc. But if you really listen to him for a while you come to understand that he preaches as boldly as he does because of his love for God and his love for people. He shows that love by presenting the truth to people as best he can, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable. He'd rather us be uncomfortable and come to Christ than be comfortable and on our way to hell. What he does is really sacrificial. He takes constant attack and abuse for speaking so boldly. In fact, did you know his podium is bullet proof? He's had so many threats against his life that the church has taken serious security precautions to protect him. Yet he gets up there week after week to feed his sheep, knowing someone might follow through on those threats. That's love, wouldn't ya say?

It's also helpful to remember that we all have different gifts. I know personally people often think that I'm cold or unloving because I'm an introvert. They think that because I'm not all bubbly and carrying the conversation it must be because I don't like them. But that's simply not the case. Some people are gifted with hospitality, but not all of us are.

I don't know what you've been through and realize it's quite possible you've run into some very unloving people. That happens everywhere because we're all fallen humans and prone to such things. If that is indeed the case, I pray you find a church were people do show you God's love and His truth.

 

[mlqurgw]

I think by in love I simply mean, none of them really seem to want to worship God. They don't seem to be consistent in love and very self centered. I've gone to MacArthurs church and 2 churches near me (both Master Seminary Graduates) and both churches just seem dead. Pastorwise, the most helpful Pastors are actually the ones who didn't graduate from Masters or even have a degree and love just seems to flow from them, where anyone who has been to Masters Seminary or College seems very judgmental. MacArthurs church was the same. Then I went to Francis Chans church and it took me going a few times for anyone to notice I was new, but everyone there just seems much more pleasant and just excited to be in the church. MacArthur seems wise/intelligent, but he seems to have a problem with pride, as do a lot of reformers it seems. And as far as salvation goes, the doctrine involving salvation is important because the risk of a soul is at stake. I for one, have become severely confused on what salvation is and even knowing if I am saved because if it's solely of God then how can God wish everyone to repent and not perish, yet only save some? I don't know... right now it seems to be just a big blur to me and I'm just thoroughly confused and it makes me feel like giving up because I feel like everyone is just lying (not referring to the forums -- but just in general). If I didn't know my soul was at stake (like most unbelievers), I would have given up long ago. IDK. blah.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about these things in a more personal way. I am willing to help you all I can but I don't want to open up everything I say to public debate. I am more interested in helping you than defending truth against those who wish to debate everything. I would much rather help you lay a solid foundation in truth from which you can build all other theological ideas. Of course that foundation is Christ.

 

[JM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfg1lMDHblU