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What about absent from the body present with the Lord?I believe there are many saved sleeping in the dust of the earth -- in the grave. When Jesus returns they as well as the living saved will finally be delivered.
This question goes out to the Futurists.
Is there anyone in Heaven right now,other than the Trinity and angels, if Jesus has not returned?
John 14
2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
John 3
13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
So Jesus says no one has ascended into heaven and since, according to you, He has not returned yet, is there anybody in heaven?
But if Jesus has not returned yet they are not in heaven."Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-for we walk by faith, not by sight-we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8).
When a Christian dies, their soul goes immediately to heaven. Those souls will not be joined with their resurrected bodies until they are caught up together with those who are alive to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 413-18).
In Christ,
Tracey
But if Jesus has not returned yet they are not in heaven.
Doesn't Jesus have to return first before anyone can be in heaven?
see the verses I supplied in original post
The verse says "no one has ascended into heaven." That means no soul/body. Where from scripture can you show me where it says the souls of christians are in heaven before the return of Christ?Resurrected bodies await the meeting of the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but the souls of departed Christians are present with the Lord.
Again Paul says, "If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary that I will remain, ...(Phil. 1:22-26).
In Christ,
Tracey
Resurrected bodies await the meeting of the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but the souls of departed Christians are present with the Lord.
Again Paul says, "If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary that I will remain, ...(Phil. 1:22-26).
In Christ,
Tracey
The verse says "no one has ascended into heaven." That means no soul/body. Where from scripture can you show me where it says the souls of christians are in heaven before the return of Christ?
This question goes out to the Futurists.
Is there anyone in Heaven right now,other than the Trinity and angels, if Jesus has not returned?
John 14
2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
John 3
13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
So Jesus says no one has ascended into heaven and since, according to you, He has not returned yet, is there anybody in heaven?
IMO you have missed the point of my post.
IMO you are mis-understanding the verses
John 14, there are many dwelling places in heaven..
and Christ went to the Father and prepared a resting place for us...
through Christ, we get rest in God.
John 3, in ACTS 2 the same teaching is given but David is used as an example.
Not even David reached the Throne of God, iow the Right Hand of God, iow the Power of God.
only Christ Jesus
there are already many in heaven today, waiting to come back her with Christ when He comes, and Christ taught just that.
Lazarus and the rich man, 7 brothers and Abraham, Isaac, Jacob
the folks in Rev5
the souls under the altar in Rev6's 6th seal
the ones in Rev12
the angel that showed John the vision in Rev22
there are many more examples
My Brother, I understood fine...IMO you have missed the point of my post.
My point is that according to the verses I posted there cannot be anyone in heaven if Christ has not returned.
In your reply you did not paste the rest of the verse that I posted. You put in bold many and OK yes there are many but my point was that He said He will come again and receive you to Myself.
I take it you think He already returned?He was talking to those who were standing right in front of Him. So if He has not returned then no one is in heaven right now.
God Bless
Jesse
This question goes out to the Futurists.
Is there anyone in Heaven right now,other than the Trinity and angels, if Jesus has not returned?
John 14
2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
John 3
13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
So Jesus says no one has ascended into heaven and since, according to you, He has not returned yet, is there anybody in heaven?
In what sense will Jesus bring with Him those who've fallen asleep (1 Thess. 4:14)?
Paul declares that when a Christian dies their souls go immediately to heaven (2 Cor. 5:6-8). The believer is either in their physical body living on earth or has left their material body and have gone into Christ's presence. There is no third option, such as purgatorry or "soul sleep." Nowhere does the passage suggest an intermediate state of unconsciousness. Also, while Paul continues at home in the body, he also continues away from home as regards the Lord (present tense); because of this, his fellowship was incomplete (vs. 7). He then goes on to say that a moment of time is coming (aorist) when the situation will be changed and he will be present with the Lord and absent from the body, which is a clear reference to death.
Further, while on the cross Jesus promised the dying thief that he would be with Him in paradise that very day (Luke 23:43). The word paradise is used three times in the New Testament for heaven, where Christ currently resides.
See also (Phil. 1:21-23). Paul's one desire has a twofold object: departure and being with Christ! If departure didn't mean his immediate being with Christ, another construction would've been used. Therefore, it seems impossible that "soul sleep" was in the mind of the Apostle, since his desire was to enjoy the presence of the Lord.
Lastly, believers are given the guarantee that nothing, including death, will ever separate them from their Lord (Rom. 8:38-39). This assures them that they are not abandoned at the time of physical death.
In Christ,
Tracey
consider these Husky
23The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27And last of all the woman died also.
28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
18Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,
19Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
20Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.
21And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.
22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.
23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.
24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
27Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
28Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
29There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
30And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
31And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
32Last of all the woman died also.
33Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Why are the "fallen asleep" (i.e.: the dead) lost without the resurrection?
"For if the dead rise not ... then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are lost." (1 Cor 15:16-18)
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