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Is there a Satan?

ShamashUruk

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The origins of "Satan" comes from an Anglicization of the Hebrew common noun שָׂטָן and the noun has been related etymologically to a variety of geminate, third weak and hollow verbs in Hebrew and in the cognate languages. These proposals include verbs meaning 'to stray' (AI ~IT, Heb ~THtEth ~TY, Akk ,SG!U I and Syr ST'), 'to revolt/fall away' (Aram swr, Mandaean sWTand Heb swr), 'to be unjust' (Ar ~TI), 'to bum' (Syr swr and Ar ~YT) and 'to seduce' (Eth ~TY and Reb ~TH). These proposals require discounting the nun of the noun satan as part of the root, and attributing it to an *-an suffix which has been appended to a nominal base. There are two reasons why it is unlikely that the nun should be attributed to an *-tin suffix.

Firstly, the *-an suffix when appended to a nominal base nornally results in an abstract noun, an adjective or a diminutive. The noun 'satan' fits none of these categories.

Secondly, in Hebrew *-an is typically realized as -on. There are exceptions, but among the standard conditions proposed to explain the atypical retention of *-an, none apply to the noun satan. Therefore it is preferable to regard the nun as part of the root and analyze satan as a noun of the common qatal pattern.

The fact that the geminate, third weak and hollow verbs listed above have meanings that are arguably appropriate to Satan should be viewed as resulting from interaction between popular etymological speculation and developing traditions about Satan.

The root *STN is not evidenced in any of the cognate languages in texts that are prior to or contemporary with its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible. KJ3 (918) incorrectly cites an alleged Akk satanu, but the forms to which KB refers are St lexical participles of etemuJetenu (AHW, 260). Thus the meaning of the noun satan must be determined solely on the basis of its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible, where it occurs in nine contexts. In five it refers to human beings and in four it refers to celestial beings. When it is used of human beings it is not a proper name, but rather a common noun meaning 'adversary' in either a political or military sense, or 'accuser' when it is used in a legal context. In the celestial realm there is only one context in which. Satan might be a proper name. In the other three contexts it is a common noun, meaning 'adversary' or 'accuser'. [P.L.D.]

Σαταν and Σατανᾶς are transliterations of the Hebrew satan (cf. 3 Kgdms 11:14.23; Sir 21 :27) or Aram satana and mean 'adversary'. In such instances 8HevXIIgr and the· LXX translate the Hebrew "expression with Diabolos ~Devil, meaning 'the Slanderer'. Ho Sataniis (rarely used without article) thus designates the opponent of ~God. In the NT Satanas and Diabolos can refer to the same supernatural being (cf. Rev 20:2) and can thus be interchanged (cf. Mark 1:13 and Luke 4:2). This highest evil being can also be referred to as ho poneros ('the evil one', cf. Matt 13: 19) and 110 peira:.on ('the tempter' - cf. Malt 4:3: I Thess 3:5). [C.B.l]

Although the noun satan has no cognates in texts that are prior to or contemporary with the biblical texts in which it occurs, there are in Akkadian three legal terms meaning 'accuser' that can have both terrestrial and celestial referents. These terms are bel dababi, bel dini and akil karsi. Each can refer either to a human legal opponent or to a deity acting as an accuser in a legal context,and thus each term functionally parallels the noun satan even though there is no etymological relationship. For example, the deities Nanay and Mar-Biti are charged to guarantee an agreement sworn in their names. Should anyone attempt to alter the agreement, these deities were to assume the role of legal adversaries (EN.MES d;-n;-su [VAS I 36 iiiA». Standing behind this notion of deities playing legal roles with respect to earthly happenings is the wellknown idea of the divine -'council, acting as a judiciary body. The noun satan is used of a divine being in four contexts in the Hebrew Bible.

In Numbers 22:22-35 Balaam, a non-Israelite seer, sets out on a journey, an act that incurs God's wrath. God responds by dispatching his celestial messenger, the malak YHWH, described as a satan, who stations himself on the road upon which Balaam is travelling. Balaam is ignorant of the swordwielding messenger but his donkey sees the danger and twice avoids the messenger, for which Balaam beats the animal. The messenger then moves to a place in the road where circumvention is impossible. The donkey lays down, and is again beaten. At this point Yahweh gives the donkey the ability to speak, and she asks why Balaam has beaten her. A conversation ensues and then Yahweh uncovers Balaam's eyes so that he can see the sword-wielding messenger, and Balaam falls down to the ground. The messenger asks why Balaam struck his donkey and then asserts that he has come forth as a satan because Balaam undertook his journey hastily. The messenger states that, had the donkey not seen him and avoided him, he would have killed Balaam. Balaam then admits his guilt, saying that he did not know that the messenger was standing on the road, and offers to tum back if the messenger judges the journey to be wrong. The messenger gives Balaam permission to continue, but adjures him to speak only as instructed.

Prior to the work of GROSS (1974) most scholars attributed the above passage to the J source, which would have made it the earliest context in which the noun satan is applied to a celestial being. However, since Gross' study the tendency has been to date the passage to the sixth century BC or later. With the exception of the above story, which obviously ridicules Balaam, he is characterized in an extremely positive way in Num 22-24. Outside those chapters, the first clear indications that he is being viewed negatively are attributable to the P source (Num 31: 16) and Dtr 2 (Josh 13:22), both of which are typically dated to the sixth century. Thus the available evidence suggests that Balaam was viewed positively in earlier, epic tradition, but negatively in later sources. Given that the story under discussion views Balaam negatively, the story most likely stems from a later source. As can be readily seen, the heavenly being who acts as a satan in Numbers 22 has very little in common with later conceptualizations of Satan.

He (satan) is Yahweh's messenger, not his archenemy, and he acts in accordance with Yahweh's will rather than opposing it. Indeed, Yahweh's messenger here, as elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible, is basically an hypostatization of the deity.

Hence, as KLUGER (1967:75) has remarked, the 'real' satan/adversary in Numbers 22 is none other than Yahweh himself.

The opening chapter of the book of Job describes a gathering of the -"sons of God', i.e. a meeting of the divine -'council. Present at this gathering is a being called "Hassatan": this is the common noun satan preceded by the definite nrticle. The definite article makes it virtually certain that satan is not a proper name (contra B. WALTKE & M. O'CONNOR, An Intooduction to Biblical Hebrcw Syntax [Winona Lake 1990] 249).

Most scholars translate "hassatan" as 'the Accuser', which they understand to be a title that describes a specific role or office. However, it should be noted that no annlogous office has been convincingly identified in the legal system of ancient Israel, nor do the divine councils of the surrounding cultures include a deity whose specific assignment is to be an accuser.

Some scholars have argued that professional informers/accusers existed in the early Persian period, and that the satan in Job 1 and 2 is modeled on these informers. The evidence for this is inconclusive. Given the uncertainty of the existence of adducible legal parallels, another possibility would be to understand the force of the definite article differently. For example, in Gen 14:13 a certain person who has escaped from a battle is referred to as happalit. The precise identity of the character is not important to the story. What is important for the narrative is the character's current and temporary status of escapee. The force of the definite article is to deemphasize precise identity and focus on the status of the character as it is relevant to the narrative plot (cf. Ezek 24:26; 33:21 and P. JOOON, Grammaire de I'Hibreu biblique [Rome 1923] 137n). Attributing this force to the definite article of "hassatan" in Job 1:6 would lead us to understand that a certain divine being whose precise identity is unimportant and who has the current and temporary status of accuser is being introduced into the narrative. The advantage of this interpretation is that it is consistent with known Israelite (and Mesopotamian) legal practice in that 'accuser' was a legal status that various people temporarily acquired in the appropriate circumstances, and not a post or office.

When Yahweh asks the satan whether he has given any thought to the exemplary and indeed perfect piety of Job, the satan links Job's piety with the prosperity he enjoys as a result. If the pious inevitably prosper, how do we know that their piety is not motivated by sheer greed? Given that God is responsible for the creation and maintenance of a world order in which the righteous reap reward, what the satan is in fact challenging is God's blueprint for divine-human relations.

In other words, the satan is questioning the validity of a moral order in which the pious unfailingly prosper. The test of true righteousness would be worship without the promise of reward. Yahweh accepts the satan's challenge: he permits the satan to sever the link between righteousness and reward. Although Job is blameless, he is made to suffer, losing first his wealth and his children, and eventually his own good health. In the end a suffering and impoverished Job nevertheless bends his knee to a god whose world order is devoid of retributive justice, thus proving the satan wrong. In Job, the Satan seems clearly to be a divine being, although most scholars would agree that satan is not a proper name.

Though he challenges God at a very profound level, he is nonetheless subject to God's power and, like Yahweh's messenger in Num 22, acts on Yahweh's instructions. He is certainly not an independent, inimical force. The book of Job does not contain references to historical events and hence dating it is problematic. Most modern scholars read it as a response to theological problems raised by the Babylonian exile and consequently date it to the latter half of the sixth century BCE.

My own personal thought is the book of Job is related to the Babylonian books of wisdom, but this would need much more proper research.

In a vision of the prophet Zechariah (Zech 3), the high priest Joshua is portrayed as standing in the divine council, which is functioning as a tribunal. He stands in front of Yahweh's messenger, with "hassatan" on his right-hand side to accuse him. The messenger rebukes the Satan, and orders that Joshua's filthy garments be removed and replaced with clean clothing. In the name of Yahweh the messenger promises Joshua continuing access to the divine council in return for obedience. As in Job 1and 2, the noun Satan appears with the definite article, and hence is not a proper name. The presence of the definite article also raises the same question as to whether it denotes an office of Accuser in the divine council. See the above section on Job 1 and 2 for a discussion of this problem.

In order to understand Zechariah's vision and the satan's role in it, it's necessary to address the historical context of the vision. While the vision cannot be dated exactly, the general context of Zechariah's prophecy was the Jerusalem community after the return from exile around the time of the rebuilding of the temple (ca. 520 BCE). Those scholars who see this community as basically unified view Joshua as a symbol of the community and interpret his change of clothes as symbolizing a change in the community's status from impure to pure, or sinful to forgiven, in the eyes of Yahweh. In this interpretation, the satan is understood as objecting to the change in the community's status: Yahweh wishes to pardon his people and the satan is opposed. However. This interpretation overlooks evidence that the restoration community was deeply divided over cultic issues. including the issue of the priesthood (HANSON 1979:32-279). When this fact is taken into account it becomes unlikely that Joshua should be understood as a cypher for the whole community. Rather, the vision reflects a rift in the community over the issue of whether Joshua should become the high priest. Zechariah's vision supports Joshua. and implicitly claims that the matter has been decided in Joshua's favour in the divine council itself. with Yahweh taking Joshua's side. In this interpretation, the satan can be described as a projection into the celestial realm of the objections raised by the losing side. If this interpretation is the correct one. then the noun satan is here associated with a division that is internal to the community in question. This interpretation would add support to PAGELS' (1991) theory that the notion of Satan developed among Jews who wished to denounce other Jews whose opinions they did not share. As in Num 22 and Job 1 and 2, satan in Zech 3 is not a proper name. In Zech 3 the satan is clearly not Yahweh's messenger; indeed, the satan and Yahweh's messenger are on opposing sides of the issue of whether Joshua should become the high priest. Hence Num 22 and Zech 3 use the noun satan to describe different divine beings. It is unclear whether the satan of Job 1 and 2 is the same celestial being as the satan of Zech 3. If "hassatan" should be translated 'the Accuser' with the understanding that there is a post or office of Accuser in the divine council. then it is most likely that the same divine being is envisaged in both contexts. However. if the definite article carries the connotations outlined above. then it is quite possible that Job 1 and 2 and Zech 3 do not have the same divine being in view.

So far we have covered that in older cultural traditions such as the Akkadians does indicate where we first see the ideologies of deities acting as accusers. Meaning that "satan" or "Satan" is not an Israelite invention, as the Akkadian's predate the Israelite's. Also, the Bible references so far differing "Satan" or "satan" between Zecharia and the book of Job. Furthermore we see Yahweh as acting as "Satan", "satan" or Yahweh is actually "Satan", "satan" per the story of Balaam.

In 1 Chr 21: 1 the noun satan appears without the definite article. The majority of scholars therefore understand satan to be the proper name Satan. though some maintain that the noun refers to a human adversary and others argue that it refers to an unnamed celestial adversary or accuser. I Chr 21: 1-22: 1 is paralleled in the Deuteronomistic History by 2 Sam 24. Both passages tell the story of a census taken during the reign of David, an ensuing plague and an altar built on the threshing floor of AraunahlOrnan (-Varuna). In 2 Sam 24 the story begins. "and the anger of Yahweh again burned against Israel. and he provoked David against them. saying 'Go number Israel and Judah·... The corresponding verse in Chr reads. "And a satan/Satan stood up against Israel and he provoked David to number Israel." In both versions the act of taking a census is adjudged sinful. Given that the Chronicler used the Deuteronomistic History as a source text. it is clear that the Chronicler has altered his source in such a way as to take the burden of responsibility for the sinful census away from Yahweh. Some scholars interpret this to mean that the Chronicler was striving to distance Yahweh from any causal relationship to sin or to rid Yahweh of malevolent behaviour in general. However, this explanation cannot account for passages such as 2 Chr 10:15 and 18:18-22, where Yahweh is clearly portrayed as sanctioning lies and instigating behaviour that was designed to cause harm. All other explanation notes that, in comparison to the Deuteronomistic History, the Chronicler presents an idealized portrait of David's reign. In general, the Chronicler deletes accounts that cast David in a dubious light. Contrary to this general tendency, the Chronicler was obliged to retain the story of the census plague because it culminated in the erection of what the Chronicler understood to be the altar of the Solomonic Temple, and David's relationship to the Jerusalem Temple is another theme of crucial concern to the Chronicler. Given that the incident could not, therefore, be deleted, the Chronicler modified his source text so that the incident no longer compromised Yahweh's relationship with David, the ideal king. The Chronicler also shifts blame for the sinfulness of the census from David to Joab by stating that the census was not sinful per se, but was sinful because Joab did not take a complete census (I Chr 21 :6-7; 27:24).

It is important to establish why the Chronicler changed his source text because his motivation has implications for how we understand satan in this passage. If the Chronicler was trying to generally distance Yahweh from malevolent behavior and accomplished this by attributing such behavior to another divine being, then we can see in this passage the beginnings of a moral dichotomy in the celestial sphere.

If Yahweh is no longer thought to be responsible for malevolent behavior toward humankind, and another divine being capable of acting efficaciously, independent of Yahweh, is, then it would be quite appropriate to translate satan with the proper name Satan. However, if the introduction of satan into the census story has the more circumscribed objective of portraying the relationship between Yahweh and David favorably, and not of ridding Yahweh of malevolent intent more generally, then even if satan in this passage is a proper name, the tenn is still a long way from connoting Satan, God's evil archenemy. Although there is no consensus position regarding the dating of Chronicles, the most persuasive arguments favour dating the first edition of the Chronicler's history to ca. 520 BCE. If this is correct, then there are two additional reasons against translating satan as a proper name.

Firstly, Zechariah, a contemporary, does not use satan as a proper name. Secondly, the earliest texts that indisputably contain the proper name Satan date to the second century nCE (Ass. Mos. 10:1; Jub 23:29; possibly Sir 21 :27). which would mean that more than 300 years separate the Chroniclers text from the first certain references to Satan.

In Hebrew texts from the Second Temple Period the use of satan is limited. The sinner seeks forgiveness from -.Yahweh, who is asked to prevent the rule of Satan or an unclean spirit (cf. II QPSa Plea 19: 15). Satan's power threatens human beings. Accordingly the time of salvation is marked by the absence of Satan and evil (4 QDibHama 1-2.IV,12; cf. Jub. 23:29; 40:9:46:2; 50:5). Satan is standing among the winds (3 Enoch 23: 16). The council of the Qumran community had a curse in which they imprecated that satan with his hostile design and with his wicked spirits be damned (cf. 4 QBef"l.b). In the LXX 'Satan' as a divine name possibly occurs in Sir 21 :27: "When the ungodly curses Satan, he curses his own life."

Being a transliteration from the Hebrew or Aramaic and almost lacking in the LXX, the Greek form of the name "Satan" is rarely used in Jewish literature of the Second Temple Period (cf. T. 12 Patr., T. Job and Life of Adam and Eve 17: I). Ho Diabolos (Devil), preferred by Life of Adam and Eve, Philo and Josephus, is more common. "Satan" and -·"Belial" are used to refer to the same superterrestrial being (cf. the Dead Sea Scrolls: Mart. Isll. 2: 1.4.7 [= Gk 3:2:3: II] ) and "Satan" and "Devil" are synonymous in their reference (cf. T. Job. 3:3.6 and 16:2 + 27: I with 17: I + 26:6). The incidental use of Satanas in some Greek texts, such as the NT, is a clear Semitism.

According to the various NT authors Satan (in Q the Devil) rules over a Kingdom of darkness. Satan is thus depicted as major opponent of -·Jesus and tries to deceive him (Mark 1: 13). As the opposing force to God, the Synoptic Tradition identifies Satan with Beelzebul, the principal of the devils (Luke 11: 15-19 / Matt 12:24-27 / Mark 3:22- 23.26). Jesus defeats his power by exorcizing -+demons and curing the ill and thus inaugurates the reign of God which ends Satans' rule (Matt 12:28 /I Luke II:20). For Luke, Jesus' ministry is the time of salvation and thus puts a temporary end to the reign of Satan (10: 18). The conversion of the gentiles leads them from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God (Acts 26: 18). Apostates are handed back to Satan (I Cor 5:5: I Tim 1:20 cf. 5: 15). As principal of the God-opposing forces, Satan poses a threat to the Christian communities (e.g. Rom 16:20: 2 Cor 2: 11). He can still influence the daily life and thwart human plans (I Thess 2: 18). Through demons he causes illness (e.g. Luke 13:16: 2 Cor 12:7); he deceives humans (I Cor 7:5; Rev 20:3) and is even disguised as an angel of light (2 Cor II: 14). Grave errors of members of the community arc ascribed to the influence of Satan. Peter is rebuked as "Satan" intending "the things of man" and thus opposing God (Mark 8:33; Luke 22:31). Judas' betrayal of Jesus (Luke 22:3: John 13:27) and Ananias' fraud (Acts 5:3) for instance, are understood to be caused by Satan. Opposing religiosity, such as the Jewish refusal to accept -+Christ (cf. Rev 2:9; 3:9), heresy (cf. Rev 2:24) or cults which endanger the Christian communities in Asia (cf. Rev 2: 13) are seen as threats coming from Satan. In Jewish apocalyptic tradition, the eschatological fall of Satan is expected (Rom 16:20; Rev 20:7-10). In the post-NT tradition the -·Antichrist is very closely associated with the Devil and Satan. False teaching originates with them (Pol. Phil. 7: I). The "angels of Satan" control the dark way of false teaching and authority, opposing the angels of God, who are guiding to the way of light (Bam. 18: 1. On the Apostolic Fathers, Apologists and Gnostics, see RUSSEL 1981).

Often we will see an equating of "Satan", "satan" to Lucifer, which I did not previously discuss.

Lucifer does not exist until the stroke of a pen in 382 AD. The genealogy is straightforward to plot. First, the apparent name given in Isaiah 14:12 is not Lucifer, but Hêlēl Ben Šaḥar; this is transformed in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, into Ἑωσφόρος (Heōsphóros): dawn bringer. This is the specific Greek term for the god of the planet Venus when it rises. There is no ambiguity in its astral identification as the morning star. In Greek mythology, Heōsphóros was twinned with Hesperos; they are respectively morning and evening star. Even in identifying these as gods of the star, the planet Venus herself remained that of the love goddess Aphrodite, a distinction which needs to be made. The Septuagint, with its rendition of Heōsphóros, was not, however, used as the basis for the Latin Vulgate, which replaced the earlier translations in circulation, collectively known as the Vetus Latina. The Latin Vulgate was the work of St Jerome in a project which commenced in 382 CE, and became the standard text in the Western Catholic Church for the next 1000 years. Instead of using the Greek Septuagint, Jerome went to the Hebrew texts themselves, and thence made the fatal translation ‘Lucifer.’ This is derived from the Latin lucem ferre, light bearer.

Clearly this differs from the Greek, ‘dawn bringer,’ although it has the same basic meaning, that of Venus, the morning star. It is only when the Latin Lucifer is translated back into Greek that it becomes Φωσφόρος (Phōsphóros). Evidently, dawn-bringer is not a term that can be used interchangeably with phosphoros, which has the more general meaning of ‘light-bringing,’ and is applied to many gods and goddesses, such as torch-bearing Hecate. It does not identify the source or the character of the light. Though phosphoros can be applied as an epithet to Lucifer, it would be more accurate to specify heosphoros. The mystery of Lucifer is explicitly concerned with the light of dawn, and its attendant qualities – the reddening of the sky and the magical properties of the dew, an oft forgotten elixir.

To sum we don't see an adversary until Akkad, in the earlier Sumerian period each "demon" is attributed to an illness or protection. Pazuzu is seen as a protective "demon" as he is a wind spirit. Or, alternatively the Sumerian's would engage in anti witchcraft exorcisms, hence the banishing of the headache demon. We will not see an adversary in Sumer, and the Biblical "satan" isn't written until about 1700 BC by Moses as an adversary, however it is most likely to stand that Bereshit (Genesis) is written by Yahwehist cults.

A member of a city-state (in Sumer; ancient Iraq) would become sick with a stomach ache, the Sumerian Isib priest would then make an elixer of beer, myrrh, and frankincense and pour into the anus of the victim. When the victim was relieved, the Isib priest would perform an exorcism and replace the "udug" demon with a "lil" or angelic (later translated through adoption from culture to culture) demon, spirit as a protector, and then later the Isib priest would banish the protective demon; all the while the Sumerian Gods would intervene, ensuring that the Isib priest performed proper doctrinal practices.

Obviously medicine has come a very long way, and exorcisms are not seen as part of the medical process. However, in ancient culture's this process would often be practiced. Cure the patient, remove the demon that is inflicting the illness and ask the Gods to intervene.

By the usage of the word "demon" from Sumer, means protector and or ill bringer. Which is synonymous with the terms "udug" and "lil", lil for wind spirits, which have wings such as the Griffith, where angels are derived from.

What we don't see in Sumer is an adversary, that concept isn't established until possibly Akkad. Hence, the character satan is a representation of an adversary, which is a pre Israelite invention.

"Sin" is also a concept in Sumer, a personal offense against One's God(s), while sin is adopted later to mean "missing the mark". Yet sin is not attributed to an adversary in ancient Sumer as they have no adversary. Sin is later attributed to the "fall of mankind", which that story is based on earlier Ancient Near East theology.
 
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ShamashUruk

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The Bible tells me that there is a Satan and that's good enough for me.

The Bible oft fails in translation from the polytheistic Israelite's. Even we see Yahweh as Satan, so when the Bible tells you there is a Satan, I'd agree that Yahweh is Satan and that would then mean that in the New Testament Jesus the master of storms, savior, shepherd and so on is earlier seen in the Old Testament as Satan.
 
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ShamashUruk

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Copypastatl;drwth

While I find that funny, I like to get a perspective from proper research. You being an atheist cannot posit a God, and I'm sure you have material you reference as well, hence the copy-paste comment from you. Yet I know your ideas are not all your own.
 
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Radrook

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The Bible oft fails in translation from the polytheistic Israelite's. Even we see Yahweh as Satan, so when the Bible tells you there is a Satan, I'd agree that Yahweh is Satan and that would then mean that in the New Testament Jesus the master of storms, savior, shepherd and so on is earlier seen in the Old Testament as Satan.
I never have encountered a scripture where the creator of the universes is identified with the one who spoke lies.One is the accuser, slanderer, father of lies and a murderer. The other is God.

John 8:44
New International Version
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
 
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ShamashUruk

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I never have encountered a scripture where the creator of the universes identified with the ne who spoke lies are contrasted. One is the accuser, slanderer, father of lies and a murderer. The other is God.

John 8:44
New International Version
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

You obviously didn't read anything I posted, so I understand the difficulty in being taken aback by my agreeing with you that Satan is in the Bible, but I further state that Satan is Yahweh. Concerning Balaam "Given that the story under discussion views Balaam negatively, the story most likely stems from a later source. As can be readily seen, the heavenly being who acts as a satan in Numbers 22 has very little in common with later conceptualizations of Satan.

He (satan) is Yahweh's messenger, not his archenemy, and he acts in accordance with Yahweh's will rather than opposing it. Indeed, Yahweh's messenger here, as elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible, is basically an hypostatization of the deity.

Hence, as KLUGER (1967:75) has remarked, the 'real' satan/adversary in Numbers 22 is none other than Yahweh himself."

So it's either you don't understand the history of your own Bible, or you read the Bible and accept that it was written by the Israelite's in English and was never translated.
 
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Radrook

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You obviously didn't read anything I posted, so I understand the difficulty in being taken aback by my agreeing with you that Satan is in the Bible, but I further state that Satan is Yahweh. Concerning Balaam "Given that the story under discussion views Balaam negatively, the story most likely stems from a later source. As can be readily seen, the heavenly being who acts as a satan in Numbers 22 has very little in common with later conceptualizations of Satan.

He (satan) is Yahweh's messenger, not his archenemy, and he acts in accordance with Yahweh's will rather than opposing it. Indeed, Yahweh's messenger here, as elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible, is basically an hypostatization of the deity.

Hence, as KLUGER (1967:75) has remarked, the 'real' satan/adversary in Numbers 22 is none other than Yahweh himself."

So it's either you don't understand the history of your own Bible, or you read the Bible and accept that it was written by the Israelite's in English and was never translated.

There is a distinct difference between Satan and God which the Bible clearly explains. I see absolutely no reason to be confusing one with the other. So I guess we simply disagree.
 
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SolomonVII

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The Bible oft fails in translation from the polytheistic Israelite's. Even we see Yahweh as Satan, so when the Bible tells you there is a Satan, I'd agree that Yahweh is Satan and that would then mean that in the New Testament Jesus the master of storms, savior, shepherd and so on is earlier seen in the Old Testament as Satan.
Earlier verses of the Bible recognize Satan as something like a prosecuting attorney in God's court, accusing and bring a case against people. Satan was an amoral force discerning the truth in the heart of mankind, lurking in the shadows, exposing the secrets hidden in the dark of man's psyche.
It is in the Christian Gospel that what was concealed about Satan becomes revealed. In accusing Jesus, in tempting him, he accuses and tempts God himself. His amoral character is revealed as a force that favors power over love, and as such he falls from heaven, like lightning. He no longer is the snake of discernment, slithering into cracks and crevices revealing the secrets hidden in the darkest thoughts of the Jobs of this world. He is an active force of evil, tempting even the Son of God into the ways of power, provoking even God to slip.

The Bible is not just adiscontinuous series of books strung together randomly, but is a sacred history playing out in real time. The polytheism itself is not untrue, for it reveals the disparate forces at play within a man's psyche, sometimes cooperating, more over at odds with each other, like the gods of ice and fire are.
The God of Abraham and Jacob on the other hand, Trinity even, is at one in terms of purpose of goodness, and ultimately controls all, even uniting the enemy gods of fire and ice in the seventh plague, as hail and fire rain down upon the disbelieving Pharoah.
Philsophers and psycologists like Nietzche and Jung recognize well enough the irrational, disjointed aspects of the human pscyche that give rise to polytheism. What is important to the Christian faith is the recognition that in Christ there is a focus that brings everything together.
 
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ShamashUruk

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Earlier verses of the Bible recognize Satan as something like a prosecuting attorney in God's court, accusing and bring a case against people. Satan was an amoral force discerning the truth in the heart of mankind, lurking in the shadows, exposing the secrets hidden in the dark of man's psyche.
It is in the Christian Gospel that what was concealed about Satan becomes revealed. In accusing Jesus, in tempting him, he accuses and tempts God himself. His amoral character is revealed as a force that favors power over love, and as such he falls from heaven, like lightning. He no longer is the snake of discernment, slithering into cracks and crevices revealing the secrets hidden in the darkest thoughts of the Jobs of this world. He is an active force of evil, tempting even the Son of God into the ways of power, provoking even God to slip.

The Bible is not just adiscontinuous series of books strung together randomly, but is a sacred history playing out in real time. The polytheism itself is not untrue, for it reveals the disparate forces at play within a man's psyche, sometimes cooperating, more over at odds with each other, like the gods of ice and fire are.
The God of Abraham and Jacob on the other hand, Trinity even, is at one in terms of purpose of goodness, and ultimately controls all, even uniting the enemy gods of fire and ice in the seventh plague, as hail and fire rain down upon the disbelieving Pharoah.
Philsophers and psycologists like Nietzche and Jung recognize well enough the irrational, disjointed aspects of the human pscyche that give rise to polytheism. What is important to the Christian faith is the recognition that in Christ there is a focus that brings everything together.
Earlier verses of the Bible recognize Satan as something like a prosecuting attorney in God's court, accusing and bring a case against people. Satan was an amoral force discerning the truth in the heart of mankind, lurking in the shadows, exposing the secrets hidden in the dark of man's psyche.
It is in the Christian Gospel that what was concealed about Satan becomes revealed. In accusing Jesus, in tempting him, he accuses and tempts God himself. His amoral character is revealed as a force that favors power over love, and as such he falls from heaven, like lightning. He no longer is the snake of discernment, slithering into cracks and crevices revealing the secrets hidden in the darkest thoughts of the Jobs of this world. He is an active force of evil, tempting even the Son of God into the ways of power, provoking even God to slip.

The Bible is not just adiscontinuous series of books strung together randomly, but is a sacred history playing out in real time. The polytheism itself is not untrue, for it reveals the disparate forces at play within a man's psyche, sometimes cooperating, more over at odds with each other, like the gods of ice and fire are.
The God of Abraham and Jacob on the other hand, Trinity even, is at one in terms of purpose of goodness, and ultimately controls all, even uniting the enemy gods of fire and ice in the seventh plague, as hail and fire rain down upon the disbelieving Pharoah.
Philsophers and psycologists like Nietzche and Jung recognize well enough the irrational, disjointed aspects of the human pscyche that give rise to polytheism. What is important to the Christian faith is the recognition that in Christ there is a focus that brings everything together.

Correct, earlier verses, such as the epic of Balaam. However, "satan" per my posting is an inappropriate noun, thereby we only see an adversary or adversaries earlier on in Akkad, which is pre Israel.

How satan operates in Israelite culture has little to do with an adversary or adversaries seen in older cultures. Satan is only attribute to be an adversary due to possibly priestly writings, see my above posting.

Satan is seen in the NT as an accuser and earlier in the OT as an adversary, he is still seen as an adversary in the NT as well. But, this is an improper invention by the Jews, see my above posting.

Descriptions of "Lucifer" falling from Heaven are a mistranslation as the book of Isaiah is written much later than the book of Genesis, see my above posting.

Also, attributed to satan is the serpent, however long before the story of Adam & Eve is written we see many snake cults in ancient Mesopotamia. This is due to the Israelite's later view on snake cults versus Yahwehistic worship.

I also posted on Job, but Job is possibly a reflection from the Babylonian books of Wisdom, the story or epic of Job is polytheistic in nature originally.

The Bible contain adaptations of older Mesopotamian epics, legends, and so on. We see in Sumer the fall of a Ziggaurat built to honor the Gods, and later we see its replication in the tower of Babel epic. We see a man named Ziusudra who the Gods send a flood, and Enki rescues him from the flood by having him build a boat, we see this same epic later on in Noah. We see Enki confuser of languages, where Enki splits or divides the languages righteously, we see this same story copied and adopted after the fall of the tower of Babel. We see a man named Jonah who is sent to Ninevah to preach, and is swallowed by a "big fish" the transliteration of "big fish" is Ketos or Cetus, a sea serpent that is slain in Greek mythologies. Hence, the Bible is adaptation of earlier epics and so on.

Abraham comes from Ur, thus the common stock West Semitic name Abraham is improper as Ur is a Sumerian city and is not Semitic.

The trinity is a modification of Celtic influence. I challenge you to research this, we see a triniquet in earlier Celtic folklore.

I'm going to ignore your posting on Nietzsche and Jung, if you see the above postings that had to do with "copy and paste", and possibly plagiarism. By the way Nietzsche and Jung are atheists, they have nothing to do with polytheism.
 
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SolomonVII

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Correct, earlier verses, such as the epic of Balaam. However, "satan" per my posting is an inappropriate noun, thereby we only see an adversary or adversaries earlier on in Akkad, which is pre Israel.

How satan operates in Israelite culture has little to do with an adversary or adversaries seen in older cultures. Satan is only attribute to be an adversary due to possibly priestly writings, see my above posting.

Satan is seen in the NT as an accuser and earlier in the OT as an adversary, he is still seen as an adversary in the NT as well. But, this is an improper invention by the Jews, see my above posting.

Descriptions of "Lucifer" falling from Heaven are a mistranslation as the book of Isaiah is written much later than the book of Genesis, see my above posting.

Also, attributed to satan is the serpent, however long before the story of Adam & Eve is written we see many snake cults in ancient Mesopotamia. This is due to the Israelite's later view on snake cults versus Yahwehistic worship.

I also posted on Job, but Job is possibly a reflection from the Babylonian books of Wisdom, the story or epic of Job is polytheistic in nature originally.

The Bible contain adaptations of older Mesopotamian epics, legends, and so on. We see in Sumer the fall of a Ziggaurat built to honor the Gods, and later we see its replication in the tower of Babel epic. We see a man named Ziusudra who the Gods send a flood, and Enki rescues him from the flood by having him build a boat, we see this same epic later on in Noah. We see Enki confuser of languages, where Enki splits or divides the languages righteously, we see this same story copied and adopted after the fall of the tower of Babel. We see a man named Jonah who is sent to Ninevah to preach, and is swallowed by a "big fish" the transliteration of "big fish" is Ketos or Cetus, a sea serpent that is slain in Greek mythologies. Hence, the Bible is adaptation of earlier epics and so on.

Abraham comes from Ur, thus the common stock West Semitic name Abraham is improper as Ur is a Sumerian city and is not Semitic.

The trinity is a modification of Celtic influence. I challenge you to research this, we see a triniquet in earlier Celtic folklore.

I'm going to ignore your posting on Nietzsche and Jung, if you see the above postings that had to do with "copy and paste", and possibly plagiarism. By the way Nietzsche and Jung are atheists, they have nothing to do with polytheism.
It doesn't matter if Jung and Nietzche were atheists, or not. It is their ideas that are important in any discussion of the roots of polytheism.

What matters is that the basis for polytheism is found in the nature of the human mind and human rationality, and irrationality.

It is no secret that the Bible, the Jewish people, and Christianity developed out of the thoughts and ideas and myths and archetypes that surrounded them. What is unique about the Bible is the development of a system of morality that does not limit itself to the disparate elemental forces of the nature gods and the disparate psychic forces battling for control in the theatre of the human mind. What I do, I do not understand. Paul in Romans 7 "For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate" speaks of this disjoint that is the constant battle for control for the human will. Ultimately, it is a spiritual battle, and the myths and arechetypes and cultural expressions that have developed and amalgamated in all human societies over the years give expression to this basic truth of who we are and what our world involves.
Trinity however is not based in Celtic borrowings. It is nailed to the cross of history in the flesh of Jesus Christ. That, and that alone, is the source of Christian understanding of the nature of God.
What is essential to Christianity and Judeo-Christian ideals are not the roots of the mythic expressions. It is the revelation of a way out of the essential slavery to elemental and spiritual forces that comes from what is essentially the nature worship or polytheism. The Spirit of Christ frees us. By putting Christ in the drivers seat, we become the masters of the evil inclinations, rather than succumbing to the meat and the driving forces of our own biology.

God, when understood to be that which no greater being can be conceived in either imagination or reality, is One. We can serve either the God who lights a path based in goodness and morality, or we can serve Mammon and allow our inner beast to be the master of our actions.
That is the essential difference between the Monotheism that has developed out of the Bible, and the polytheism that is based in the baseness of nature.
 
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radhead

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In the OT I'm not sure what he was. Unless he represented the Law that man believes that he can impose on other men. The knowledge of good and evil was a "high authority" to some.

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, Satan was definitely a representation of the Pharisee church which Jesus was breaking free from. And in the letters of Paul that seems to be the same thing. Paul also broke free from the Pharisees. (Have you noticed that Satan is always the FIRST to quote from this higher authority.)

Today, I would say that Satan represents the kind of evangelical Christians who place the Bible as a High Authority. They ignore the spirit, committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

The NT writers were always criticizing the "Law" not realizing that one day their own letters would be lifted up to being that same High Authority by the yeast of the Pharisees which seems will never die, as it lives on in Christianity.
 
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ShamashUruk

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It doesn't matter if Jung and Nietzche were atheists, or not. It is their ideas that are important in any discussion of the roots of polytheism.

What matters is that the basis for polytheism is found in the nature of the human mind and human rationality, and irrationality.

It is no secret that the Bible, the Jewish people, and Christianity developed out of the thoughts and ideas and myths and archetypes that surrounded them. What is unique about the Bible is the development of a system of morality that does not limit itself to the disparate elemental forces of the nature gods and the disparate psychic forces battling for control in the theatre of the human mind. What I do, I do not understand. Paul in Romans 7 "For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate" speaks of this disjoint that is the constant battle for control for the human will. Ultimately, it is a spiritual battle, and the myths and arechetypes and cultural expressions that have developed and amalgamated in all human societies over the years give expression to this basic truth of who we are and what our world involves.
Trinity however is not based in Celtic borrowings. It is nailed to the cross of history in the flesh of Jesus Christ. That, and that alone, is the source of Christian understanding of the nature of God.
What is essential to Christianity and Judeo-Christian ideals are not the roots of the mythic expressions. It is the revelation of a way out of the essential slavery to elemental and spiritual forces that comes from what is essentially the nature worship or polytheism. The Spirit of Christ frees us. By putting Christ in the drivers seat, we become the masters of the evil inclinations, rather than succumbing to the meat and the driving forces of our own biology.

God, when understood to be that which no greater being can be conceived in either imagination or reality, is One. We can serve either the God who lights a path based in goodness and morality, or we can serve Mammon and allow our inner beast to be the master of our actions.
That is the essential difference between the Monotheism that has developed out of the Bible, and the polytheism that is based in the baseness of nature.
It doesn't matter if Jung and Nietzche were atheists, or not. It is their ideas that are important in any discussion of the roots of polytheism.

What matters is that the basis for polytheism is found in the nature of the human mind and human rationality, and irrationality.

It is no secret that the Bible, the Jewish people, and Christianity developed out of the thoughts and ideas and myths and archetypes that surrounded them. What is unique about the Bible is the development of a system of morality that does not limit itself to the disparate elemental forces of the nature gods and the disparate psychic forces battling for control in the theatre of the human mind. What I do, I do not understand. Paul in Romans 7 "For I do not do what I want, but I do what I hate" speaks of this disjoint that is the constant battle for control for the human will. Ultimately, it is a spiritual battle, and the myths and arechetypes and cultural expressions that have developed and amalgamated in all human societies over the years give expression to this basic truth of who we are and what our world involves.
Trinity however is not based in Celtic borrowings. It is nailed to the cross of history in the flesh of Jesus Christ. That, and that alone, is the source of Christian understanding of the nature of God.
What is essential to Christianity and Judeo-Christian ideals are not the roots of the mythic expressions. It is the revelation of a way out of the essential slavery to elemental and spiritual forces that comes from what is essentially the nature worship or polytheism. The Spirit of Christ frees us. By putting Christ in the drivers seat, we become the masters of the evil inclinations, rather than succumbing to the meat and the driving forces of our own biology.

God, when understood to be that which no greater being can be conceived in either imagination or reality, is One. We can serve either the God who lights a path based in goodness and morality, or we can serve Mammon and allow our inner beast to be the master of our actions.
That is the essential difference between the Monotheism that has developed out of the Bible, and the polytheism that is based in the baseness of nature.

It actually does matter if they were atheists, because they have nothing to do with polytheism. The furthest we see polytheism beginning is Sumer, then it carries on to Akkad, then on to the Israelite's, the first of monotheism we see is with the Egyptians.

Polytheism is where monotheism comes from, hence whether you think it is "irrational" or "rational" it is where monotheism comes from. Also, being a Catholic you engage in polytheistic practices to this day, simply by honoring Mary in her Mariology doctrines all the while paying homage to Jesus.

Just to clarify:

Atheism asserts there is no God

Polytheism asserts there are many Gods

Monotheism assers there is one God

The Jewish people (Ancient Israelite's) are not the first set of Monotheist, we see Monotheism beginning in ancient Egypt with the Ankht who fled Egypt.

Morality is seen as far back as Sumer, the first agriculutarilst who implement the laws of Ur-Nammu, hence the Bible isn't the first to purport morality at all.

For information:

Sumer dates back about 7000-8000 years

Nietzsche was born on 15 October 1844 and died on 25 August 1900, and he was a German

So I'm not even sure where you got that Nietzsche was a polytheist.


The book of Romans is only an epistle, and really has very little to do with the story of Balaam, which is where I am getting that Yahweh is Satan.

You are getting at my point all along the Bible adopts those myths, legends, so on, hence the Bible is not an original idea all its own.

Trinity is based on Celtic borrowings, the triquetra we see in Celtic origins we later see in Bible aforethought. I can also conclude that it is indirectly related to Sumer, and has traces of Henotheism. In the Christian faith, the three points of the Trinity knot represent the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In its original form of vesicae pisces, it incorporates the fish which is a popular Christian symbol. Occasionally, you may see the Trinity knot enclosed within a circle as a means of emphasizing unity or eternity. Christians believe the Triquetra began with monks who brought the symbol with them along with their faith when converting the Celts. Yet many historians believe original knotwork symbols such as the Trinity knot are Celtic in origin. According to John Romilly Allen in his 1903 publication ‘Early Christian Monuments of Scotland’, the Trinity knot was used primarily for ‘ornamental purposes’ and the assumption that it stands for the Holy Trinity is unfounded. He goes on to say that any symbolism held by the Triquetra probably comes from the pagan era where it more than likely had an affinity with the Triskele. In the 1940 publication ‘Irish Art in the Early Christian Period’, Francoise Henry states his belief that the Trinity knot probably stood for the Holy Trinity but leaves the question open.

Christian mythology and Judeo-Christian mythology do not predate those other cultures, hence, earlier is where the Christian and Judeo-Christian ideaologies are gathered from. You'd then have to state that those older cultures do not have spiritual epics and so on. Jesus is also not a first of saviors, his savior epics mimic much older mythical epics.

Myth in an academic circle I'll use to discuss a set of beliefs, while I will use the term folklore to determine falsities.

The term God includes both male and female, in ancient Sumer we don't see a term "Goddess", we do see male and female God. The etymology of the word God may even predate Sumer, but it doesn't originate from Old English.

The Isrsaelite's even now speak a defunct Canaanite language, the Canaanite's are polytheistic and that is where the Israelite's come from.
 
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ShamashUruk

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That is a self defeating act on your part.



And you are already not paying attention. I did not respond to your OP, I responded to your error in your response to another poster.



You took umbrage
That is a self defeating act on your part.



And you are already not paying attention. I did not respond to your OP, I responded to your error in your response to another poster.



You took umbrage at only a small part of that post and still have not owned up to your error.




Nah, I am having too much fun trying to teach someone that does not know how to post properly right now.



Perhaps you should leave. I am not the one having a problem with proper debating technique. Once again, your OP was self defeating. Hitch summarized your error and you had a cow.




Short and silly makes much more sense than long, boring and silly.

Try again.

at only a small part of that post and still have not owned up to your error.




Nah, I am having too much fun trying to teach someone that does not know how to post properly right now.



Perhaps you should leave. I am not the one having a problem with proper debating technique. Once again, your OP was self defeating. Hitch summarized your error and you had a cow.




Short and silly makes much more sense than long, boring and silly.

Try again.

The OP was meant as history of the folklore of satan, did you think I meant it for something else?

I clarified what the other "poster" was about, did you think it was about something else?

No, you just confused what my point was, did you think my point was about something else?

Whether I post properly or not, has very little to do with you. If you don't like my postings you can simply decide not to view them, I have plenty of other postings on this site, to which I have never seen you reply to my other OP's on the site. Do you actually think I am going to change anything about the way I post?

Hitch only stated that I copied and paste, then he didn't read it. I found his comment funny and I responded that we all copy and paste. Then you somehow took offense thinking that I was attacking atheism. Atheism for me is not relevant, I will barely touch on the topic of atheism, for me atheism is a childish ideology. Go see my other postings it will verify that I rarely touch on the subject.
 
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ShamashUruk

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In the OT I'm not sure what he was. Unless he represented the Law that man believes that he can impose on other men. The knowledge of good and evil was a "high authority" to some.

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, Satan was definitely a representation of the Pharisee church which Jesus was breaking free from. And in the letters of Paul that seems to be the same thing. Paul also broke free from the Pharisees. (Have you noticed that Satan is always the FIRST to quote from this higher authority.)

Today, I would say that Satan represents the kind of evangelical Christians who place the Bible as a High Authority. They ignore the spirit, committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

The NT writers were always criticizing the "Law" not realizing that one day their own letters would be lifted up to being that same High Authority by the yeast of the Pharisees which seems will never die, as it lives on in Christianity.



Law is interesting, but prior to the Sinai we see the laws of Hammurabi and before Hammurabi we see the laws of Ur-Nammu. So when Moses steps off the mountain, in the tale of Moses giving "laws" for example, the 10 commandments are in clay tablet, which we see clay tablet in Sumer.

I think I covered "satan" and the temptation bit, did you read it?

Then you are stating that "satan" and the meaning have changed over time?

First is "who exactly were the NT writers"? The NT is or originates from Koine Greek, so we see a lot of Greek influence on it, but if you like we can delve into intertexutal epics, legends, and so on.

Dionysus for example is the God of wine, he is a shepherd, and so on, we see this with Jesus in the NT as well.
 
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SolomonVII

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It actually does matter if they were atheists, because they have nothing to do with polytheism.
If you had read my post with any understanding, you would understand that it has everything to do with polytheism.
The roots of polytheism are ancient, and lie in the structures of the psyche and the nature of the human mind.
 
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ShamashUruk

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Per your post I don't disagree that the early Israelite's were influenced by culture's that surrounded them.

I do disagree that Nietzsche and Jung were polytheists.

I don't disagree that polytheism is ancient.

I do disagree that polytheism "lie's in the structures of the psyche and the nature of the human mind." We see a plethora of Gods being honored in Polytheism and we see piety.

But you missed the point that Monotheism develops from Polytheism. For example, the Canaanite God Ba'al, we see later as Yahweh in Israel, and later on Yahweh is incarnated as Jesus. To further that, I can then trace Jesus as being Ba'al, Ba'al being a storm God, we see in Luke 8:25 Jesus controlling the storms. Hence, Monotheism comes from Polytheism.
 
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SolomonVII

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Per your post I don't disagree that the early Israelite's were influenced by culture's that surrounded them.

I do disagree that Nietzsche and Jung were polytheists.

I don't disagree that polytheism is ancient.

I do disagree that polytheism "lie's in the structures of the psyche and the nature of the human mind." We see a plethora of Gods being honored in Polytheism and we see piety.

But you missed the point that Monotheism develops from Polytheism. For example, the Canaanite God Ba'al, we see later as Yahweh in Israel, and later on Yahweh is incarnated as Jesus. To further that, I can then trace Jesus as being Ba'al, Ba'al being a storm God, we see in Luke 8:25 Jesus controlling the storms. Hence, Monotheism comes from Polytheism.
I didn't say their were polytheists. I don't much care of what their faith beliefs are, or are not.
What I am saying is that what they say about the human pscyhe and the irrationality of the human mind ruled as it is by disparate forces, is relevant to what lies at the heart of polytheism.
I don't miss the point actually that monotheism arises from polytheism, in the historical sense.
God redeems mankind from the slavery of polytheism. That is the lesson of Exodus. That is the lesson of Jung too actually, how to integrate the disparate forces into a cohesive whole, a cohesive One even.
Nietzsche, for his part was not so confident that such an integration of the irrationality of being ruled by disparate energies warring for control of the human will was a real possibility.
 
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ShamashUruk

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I didn't say their were polytheists. I don't much care of what their faith beliefs are, or are not.
What I am saying is that what they say about the human pscyhe and the irrationality of the human mind ruled as it is by disparate forces, is relevant to what lies at the heart of polytheism.
I don't miss the point actually that monotheism arises from polytheism, in the historical sense.
God redeems mankind from the slavery of polytheism. That is the lesson of Exodus. That is the lesson of Jung too actually, how to integrate the disparate forces into a cohesive whole, a cohesive One even.
Nietzsche, for his part was not so confident that such an integration of the irrationality of being ruled by disparate energies warring for control of the human will was a real possibility.

But, once again Nietzsche, Jung have zero to do with polytheism. Nietzsche concludes there is no God, by disparate meaning "different in kind" so please clarify what you mean.

Also, human psyche relates to the human soul, mind, or spirit, basically Nietzsche didn't believe that humans have a soul.

Also, irrationality of the human mind has absolutely zero to do with polytheism.

Mankind is not "enslaved" in Polytheism, it was just a Pre Monotheistic belief.

The first exodus from Egypt are the Egyptian Ankht, and not the Israelite's, so we see monotheism before the Israelite's.

Mankind is not "rescued" from Polytheism, when the Israelite's enter into Babylonian captivity they adopt Monotheism from the Henotheistic Babylonian's. We may even see some elements of Monotheism in Babylon.

Keep in mind that Monotheism does not equal the "Christian God" in Christian mythologies.

This is why there is no such a creature as "satan", because we see adversaries only in Akkad as deities, which are used in legal situations. The term adversary is adopted later by the ancient Israelite's and that is where the satan folklore begins to develop.
 
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SolomonVII

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But, once again Nietzsche, Jung have zero to do with polytheism. Nietzsche concludes there is no God, by disparate meaning "different in kind" so please clarify what you mean.

Also, human psyche relates to the human soul, mind, or spirit, basically Nietzsche didn't believe that humans have a soul.

Also, irrationality of the human mind has absolutely zero to do with polytheism.

Mankind is not "enslaved" in Polytheism, it was just a Pre Monotheistic belief.

The first exodus from Egypt are the Egyptian Ankht, and not the Israelite's, so we see monotheism before the Israelite's.

Mankind is not "rescued" from Polytheism, when the Israelite's enter into Babylonian captivity they adopt Monotheism from the Henotheistic Babylonian's. We may even see some elements of Monotheism in Babylon.

Keep in mind that Monotheism does not equal the "Christian God" in Christian mythologies.

This is why there is no such a creature as "satan", because we see adversaries only in Akkad as deities, which are used in legal situations. The term adversary is adopted later by the ancient Israelite's and that is where the satan folklore begins to develop.
In the inner world of the psyche, the spiritual force named Satan is very real.

Polytheism is based in the disparate forces of the human mind and the structure of the mind.
Polytheisitic 'deities' therefore exist as psychic drives that control the will of the human being preconsciously and unconsciously. The psychic experiences that leads to polytheism belief are real enough, and are experienced by everybody, even those athiests who no longer believe in the supernatural.
Ancient people interpreted their own psychic experiences and nature too as willful agencies, powerful energies indifferent to the well being of the individual and motivated by their own agendas. They could at best be manipulated by those priests with arcane and secret knowledge.
Polytheism therefore descends quickly int magic, and to the extent that we are worshiping the deities that dominate our inner pscyhic life, we are in effect worshiping the meat of our own carnal desires, succumbing to the beast within We in effect are both slaves to our own desires, and to the priestly caste of pharoah magicians who control nature for us through magic.

In the mythic world developed in the Bible, this is the world that Fallen man inhabits. The Bible presents us with a vision of a God who controls all these forces of nature and psyche and offers us freedom.
 
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