Is there a denomination like this?

[Elsa]

Hello all --


I was wondering if any of you know of a denomination that encompasses the following beliefs:


*Belief in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but no specific creed about the Trinity or how it functions.

*The literal, physical resurrection of Christ, and his literal, physical return.

*The literal existence of Satan.

*The literal existence of Heaven and Hell.

*A belief that the Bible is wholly inspired by God, and is useful for reproof and instruction but is not given precedence over the Living Word of God, i.e., Jesus.

*Neither priest nor pastor nor minister is needed between God and man; Christ himself is the mediator.

*Gathering for regular worship is seen as important, yet what day of the week is not.

*No liturgy; worship is largely unplanned. Silent waiting upon the Lord preferred, yet spontaneous singing hymns or spiritual songs can occur.

*Speaking in tongues (languages) permitted -- if orderly, translatable, or else edifying to the congregation. Not seen as proof of one's salvation.

*Soterology: One is not saved by faith alone, nor by works alone, but by both working in intricate conjunction with one another.

*One is "predestined" in that the Lord loved us first. That said, one cannot claim to know who is or is not saved, and therefore must not ignore the great commission.

*Outward forms and traditions (esp. communion and water baptism) deemed unnecessary for salvation, but not forbidden if placed upon one's heart.

*Military service discouraged, as well as any other profession that might be in conflict with the injunction to love one's enemy and to be at peace with all men.

*Social justice for the poor and unprotected emphasized.

*Modesty and simplicity in lifestyle encouraged.

*Eschatology: Non-linear. Christ's Kingdom came in the past, is currently present, and is to come, all at the same time. Knowing how this specifically occurs is not needed in order to be saved.




Thanks in advance,

Elsa

 

[HumbleMan]

Sounds kinda like the Friends church, with a little IFB, CoC, and AoG thrown in for some fun.

 

[Elsa]

Thanks for the quick reply! What does IFB, CoC and AoG stand for, if you don't mind my asking? (I think I know, but am not well-versed in this forum's acronyms and want to be sure).

 

[HumbleMan]

Thanks for the quick reply! What does IFB, CoC and AoG stand for, if you don't mind my asking? (I think I know, but am not well-versed in this forum's acronyms and want to be sure).

IFB is Independent Fundamental Baptist
CoC is Church of Christ (not the United Church of Christ)
AoG is the Assemblies of God.

Hope this helps.

 

[Elsa]

Thanks again, HumbleMan.

I agree with your assessment -- it does mostly appear Quaker-based. However I have found that Friends (at least those who still practice unprogrammed silent worship) would not agree with some the above points, namely the literal beliefs, or the moderate acceptance of forms/practices. In fact, many Friends have veered away from traditional Quakerism altogether, becoming more akin to Unitarian Universalism.

Any other groups that I might've overlooked? Or is this a truly unique combination? (I have a hard time believing this to be so, in that there have been so many different variations of Christianity over the centuries.)

 

[Fenstermacher]

I believe there some Plymouth Brethren churches like this as well.

I don't know if they do tongue-speaking though and I believe they are all fervently Dispensational in their eschatology.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hi Elsa,

I attend a Plymouth Brethren assembly so I hope my comments are helpful. There is a very wide range of brethren and I can only speak from my own limited experience. I am part of what are known as the Open Brethren. In the U.S. these are divided into two primary groups - gospel hall and chapel (obviously based on the names they give their buildings), I meet in a chapel.

A brief historical note. In he nineteenth century in England the Friends (Quakers) were wracked by great dissension and division. Many of them joined the Plymouth brethren. The result was that the brethren adopted a similar meeting style and pacifistic beliefs. The earlier brethren came from the Anglican church and were known as great expositors of the Bible. They developed dispensationalism (although they did not invent it) to a large degree.

I will make my comments in blue.

Hello all --


I was wondering if any of you know of a denomination that encompasses the following beliefs:


*Belief in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but no specific creed about the Trinity or how it functions.

The brethren are trinitarian, but not creedal. They do not disagree with the major creeds of the Church, but do not hold them equal to or above the Bible.

*The literal, physical resurrection of Christ, and his literal, physical return.

Total agreement.

*The literal existence of Satan.

Total agreement.

*The literal existence of Heaven and Hell.

Total agreement.

*A belief that the Bible is wholly inspired by God, and is useful for reproof and instruction but is not perceived as the living Word of God -- this is a title for Jesus alone.

There would be agreement on that, although they might not state it in those terms.

*Neither priest nor pastor nor minister is needed between God and man; Christ himself is the mediator.

Total agreement.

*Gathering for regular worship is seen as important, yet what day of the week is not.

General agreement, although, for a variety of reasons, Sunday is the main day for meeting. They also meet for prayer, fellowship, Bible study, etc. on other days, mostly in the evenings because of work schedules.

*No liturgy; worship is largely unplanned. Silent waiting upon the Lord preferred, yet spontaneous singing hymns or spiritual songs can occur.

Total agreement, with the caveat that congregational singing is done not solos which draw attention and praise to the soloist. Our assembly also sing the Psalms in addition to hymns and spiritual songs.

*Speaking in tongues permitted -- if orderly, translatable, or else edifying to the congregation. Not seen as proof of one's salvation.

The view is that tongues are other human languages which are translatable. Thus, if a brother from China is visiting us who does not speak English we find a translator for him with the expectation that what he says will be orderly and edifying. We do not believe that tongues are some unknown (i.e. untranslatable) ecstatic language.

*Soterology: One is not saved by faith alone, nor by works alone, but by both working in intricate conjunction with one another.

We believe that salvation is a gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ (Eph. 2:8,9) and that as a result we walk in the works which God has prepared beforehand for us (Eph. 2:10), A profession of faith is merely that - a profession. It is not necessarily faith. We only know faith by its fruit and if the fruit is not there then there is a probability that faith is lacking and is dead.

*One is "predestined" in that the Lord loved us first. That said, one cannot claim to know who is or is not saved, and therefore must not ignore the great commission.

Total agreement.

*Outward forms and traditions (esp. communion and water baptism) deemed unnecessary for salvation, but not forbidden if placed upon one's heart.

Agreed. However, they are viewed as among the works which God has prepared beforehand for us to walk in. We do not see any reason for one to reject these ordinances.

*Military service discouraged, as well as any other profession that might be in conflict with the injunction to love one's enemy and to be at peace with all men.

This varies from individual to individual and from assemblly to assembly. We see it as a matter of conscience.

*Social justice for the poor and unprotected emphasized.

This has been a hallmark of the brethren. In the nineteenth century Goerge Mueller operated the largest orphanage in England in a day when orphans were frequently left to die on the streets. I would also add that the brethren have been at the forefront of world missions sending out a vastly disproportionate number of missionaries for the size of the denomination. To this day they care for the weak and suffering throughout the world.

*Modesty and simplicity in lifestyle encouraged.

Most definitely.

*Eschatology: Non-linear. Christ's Kingdom came in the past, is currently present, and is to come, all at the same time. Knowing how this specifically occurs is not needed in order to be saved.

Eschatotology is not a salvific issue. However, the brethren are dispensational in their eschatology, although not as strongly so as some may think. It is part of the whole counsel of God and the brethren have much higher interests than eschatology.


Thanks in advance,

Elsa

I hope this has helped.

 

[Elsa]

Fenstermacher and Bbbbbbb -- Thanks so much for your thoughful input. Several of my in-laws are Open Brethren, so I'm fairly certain that not all of the above points would resonate fully with them, particularly in that they believe in the cessation of the Holy Spirit's gifts.

I suppose the closest denomination to the above hypothetical would still be The Religious Society of Friends, but perhaps as practiced before Quietist period of the 18th century and the schisms of the 19th. But even then, the majority of RSoF groups of that time would staunchly oppose any outward practices, including communion and water baptism.


Off to research some more....

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, there are many positive aspects to the RSoF. However, I agree that their opposition to water baptism and communion seems to violate their belief in freedom of conscience.

 

[Elsa]

bbbbbbb -- It does appear to do that, doesn't it? It'd be interesting to know what William Penn would have to say on the matter...

 

[Gareth]

Hello all --


I was wondering if any of you know of a denomination that encompasses the following beliefs:


*Belief in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but no specific creed about the Trinity or how it functions.

*The literal, physical resurrection of Christ, and his literal, physical return.

*The literal existence of Satan.

*The literal existence of Heaven and Hell.

*A belief that the Bible is wholly inspired by God, and is useful for reproof and instruction but is not perceived as the living Word of God -- this is a title for Jesus alone.

*Neither priest nor pastor nor minister is needed between God and man; Christ himself is the mediator.

*Gathering for regular worship is seen as important, yet what day of the week is not.

*No liturgy; worship is largely unplanned. Silent waiting upon the Lord preferred, yet spontaneous singing hymns or spiritual songs can occur.

*Speaking in tongues permitted -- if orderly, translatable, or else edifying to the congregation. Not seen as proof of one's salvation.

*Soterology: One is not saved by faith alone, nor by works alone, but by both working in intricate conjunction with one another.

*One is "predestined" in that the Lord loved us first. That said, one cannot claim to know who is or is not saved, and therefore must not ignore the great commission.

*Outward forms and traditions (esp. communion and water baptism) deemed unnecessary for salvation, but not forbidden if placed upon one's heart.

*Military service discouraged, as well as any other profession that might be in conflict with the injunction to love one's enemy and to be at peace with all men.

*Social justice for the poor and unprotected emphasized.

*Modesty and simplicity in lifestyle encouraged.

*Eschatology: Non-linear. Christ's Kingdom came in the past, is currently present, and is to come, all at the same time. Knowing how this specifically occurs is not needed in order to be saved.




Thanks in advance,

Elsa

As with any creed or belief it has to have a foundation from the Bible. Some within the list are fine, but others are not proved or approved or they are even refuted in the Bible.

With all faiths there has to be a degree of order because God is a God not of disorder but of peace. You can't have peace and order if there is no structure. If you look how Isreal was held together or the early Christians it was by being organised.

One of the list mentions speaking in tongues being permitted. The fact of the matter is that after the death of the Apostles and others who had this gift it died out as God who allowed the gift in the first place saw it fit to do so. The Bible chapter on love (1Cor. 13:1-13) shows that in time many of the gifts of the spirit would cease to exist, their reason and function fulfilled. As we have a completed Bible in many languages why do we need a gift of tongues? Chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians shows some timely advice that early Christians had to ponder over. Like if someone spoke, was there a translater? If not then no-one would speak. This is why when a person speaks in a tongue today, one has to be cautious as to what is being stated, because there is more than one source from where tongues come from.

As far as I can tell, no one faith does all the things in the list. Many do some and do them well. A social conscience, a Christ-like attitude will put anyone on the right track. Other things will naturally attach themselves because the person is trying to do the right thing. A faith that has a deep respect for the Bible and it's Author and does it's best will attract people who have a similar desire. The task is trying to find that "one" faith with the "it's got it" factor.

 

[Elsa]

Thanks for your input, Woden.

Could you please explain a little further on which points are Biblically refuted?



Much appreciated,

Elsa

 

[Elsa]

Woden -- I cannot leave you a PM, as that function has been disabled by your account. Please let me know when you've gotten back to my question. (and if you don't wish to discuss it further, that's OK, too.) Thanks.

 

[OneLove!]

Are there denominations out there that conform to what you want to believe and own up to rather than what Christ has said to us? Yeah there are plenty but you won't experience God until you follow him completely, believing all of the bible, and not just the tidbits or majority that conform to your comfortable life. There are a lot of things that Jesus said that are hard to swallow. Thats part of being his disciple though. When people regard their denomination higher than Christ, that is flat out idolatry. We are the body of Christ, and the Church of Christ, and none other than that.

 

[razeontherock]

Actually the beliefs chosen by the OP (over a year ago) line up w/ Jesus' teachings quite well. Interesting how Ben Franklin had opposition from the Quakers, which was an ongoing issue ... until they needed to save their own skin from the Redcoats (LOL)