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There is no evidence that it has been written by mose nor be intended to be historic fact.
Theistic Evolution is not a monolithic viewpoint, however, I have not met any who deny any of the essential creeds of the Christian faith. You may not agree with it. It may not be correct. That means it is not your belief; that does not mean it is heresy.
Knowing when Adam and Eve sinned is hardly a critical doctrine. If I was to make a case for TE, I would put it at around 60,000 years ago. There is a great deal of evidence of an explosion of enlightenment in ideas, tools, and other implements from the prior generation. However, others may make there case at a different point. Remember, YEC's opinion differ on the age of Earth, as well.
Oh, yes but it is. It is unbelief that teaches that God did not, after all, do exactly what He told us plainly in His word...not just in Genesis but in the very ten commandments:
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11
The six day working week and literal Sabbath observance was based upon the literal six day creation with God resting on the seventh. It was NOT a six thousand day work week, nor a six million day work week.
The doctrine of original sin is not a critical doctrine? Are you kidding me? The entire human race inherited the sin of Adam and Eve and the world is in the ruin of wickedness because of it and you say it's not 'critical'? What translation have you been reading from, dear friend, the RVB (Reversed Vision Bible)?[/QUOTE]
I never said that the fall of man was not critical. I stated that the timing is not critical. Even YEC's differ on 6,000 years? 15,000? Was the fall on day 1? 2-3 years later? 100 years? The bolded is of questionable intent. Throwing "dear friend" does not lessen it. Perhaps I have misunderstood the connotation. It is easy to do in a thread. I probably read the same translation(s) as you.
So do you believe Adam had an ape for a father?
I do not believe Homo sapiens is in that genus on the taxonomy classification.
Lastly, either your 60,000 yr figure is wrong or else Moses and the chroniclers were wrong in their chronology of the human race and therefore the Holy Spirit Himself is in error.
There is a great deal in the anthropological and paleontological record that suggest a date around that time. Even conservative scholars have questions and thoughts about the chronology. It does not mean there is an error just possible lack of understanding.
..........I choose the Holy Spirit and the writers of scripture. They did NOT waste their time and ink when they wrote those ages and time frames. God gave us those chronologies so we would have a good idea as to the age of the earth we live on.
Nothing in the inerrant word of God is a "waste of time". I will follow the Holy Spirit as well.
The discussion is about heresy. This is a term that is thrown around far too easily. I did it myself in my younger days until I studied the ecumenical councils. I believe I have addressed your questions. Could you demonstrate how any doctrine in the Nicene Creed is denied by TE's? There are many prominent doctrines within the Christian community with which I may disagree. I do not call them heresy.
(I believe in verbal plenary inspiration of scriptures in their original autographs. I realize, however, that this is in the statement of faith of many denominational bodies, including mine, but not in the creeds.)
No where did he said that Moses wrote Genesis. He's talking about the law of Moses, not that Moses wrote the laws or that wrote any of the books. Did you read between the lines?Jesus said it was written by Moses and no one among Jews or Christians in ancient times believed otherwise.
Example (one among many references): "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.Luke 24:44.
No where did he said that Moses wrote Genesis. He's talking about the law of Moses, not that Moses wrote the laws or that wrote any of the books. Did you read between the lines?
Theistic evolution does not go without biblical merit. Young Earth creationists will try to make it seem that way, but it is simply their interpretation they collide it with, not Scripture itself.
The fact is that Genesis was neither meant to be taken literally or symbolically. It is meant to be ambiguous, conveying the message that God created the Heavens and the Earth.
By taking Genesis literally, however, you run into contradictions. In the same way YEC's may say that TE's contradict Genesis, TE's can say that God created light before the stars, which is contradictory when taking it literally. Take it a different way, and you see the Big Bang. <speaking of which, a Catholic theologian actually came up with the idea of the Big Bang. It was originally not a secular position, which is a bit ironic>
So, there are two sides of the coin here. YEC's have gotten so comfortable with denying theistic evolution that they do not see the pitfalls in their own theology.
There is no reason for being arrogant. Jesus did not imply that Moses wrote genesis, that was YOUR implication not his.You aren't telling the truth. EVERY single passage in which Moses was mentioned by Jesus Christ assigns him as the author.
I already quoted Him on the matter but you just dissed it. He also said, "they have Moses and the prophets let them hear them...." Luke 16:29. So are you then going to be consistent and tell us that the prophets didn't write what Jesus likewise told us that they wrote? Jesus also said, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
You are as much as calling the Lord Jesus Christ a liar. He gave NO other name as the writer of Genesis or the rest of the Pentateuch.
But since you disagree...then give the name/names of the one/ones who wrote Genesis and document it.
You are assuming Genesis is a single book, but Genesis itself shows us it is composed of different texts and books, 'the book of the generations of Adam'. Genesis certainly contains narratives, not all narratives in the bible are historical narratives. The story of the talking trees in Judges is a narrative. Are there no indications that part of Genesis are figurative, or have you dismissed the indications that were pointed out to you because you think it must be literal? You are also assuming that if you cannot see any indications a text is figurative it must be taken literally. Jesus often told parables without giving any indication the stories weren't literal.The fact is the Genesis is an historical narrative, there is no indication anywhere in the book that it's meant to be taken figuratively. Adam, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are described in the same matter of fact terms and can only be understood as literal people.
God Created. Yes, That is correct.
A TE might suggest that this is a nice devotional framework that God used to demonstrate His authority and superiority over all the pagan deities they have and would encounter. After all, the children of Israel did not have multiple copies.
God knows what He did and what He is doing.
You quoted me, "The doctrine of original sin is not a critical doctrine? Are you kidding me? The entire human race inherited the sin of Adam and Eve and the world is in the ruin of wickedness because of it and you say it's not 'critical'? What translation have you been reading from, dear friend, the RVB (Reversed Vision Bible)?"
Then you said: "I never said that the fall of man was not critical. I stated that the timing is not critical. Even YEC's differ on 6,000 years? 15,000? Was the fall on day 1? 2-3 years later? 100 years?
The bolded is of questionable intent. Throwing "dear friend" does not lessen it. Perhaps I have misunderstood the connotation. It is easy to do in a thread. I probably read the same translation(s) as you.
I do not believe Homo sapiens is in that genus on the taxonomy classification.
There is a great deal in the anthropological and paleontological record that suggest a date around that time. Even conservative scholars have questions and thoughts about the chronology. It does not mean there is an error just possible lack of understanding.
Nothing in the inerrant word of God is a "waste of time". I will follow the Holy Spirit as well.
The discussion is about heresy. This is a term that is thrown around far too easily. I did it myself in my younger days until I studied the ecumenical councils. I believe I have addressed your questions. Could you demonstrate how any doctrine in the Nicene Creed is denied by TE's? There are many prominent doctrines within the Christian community with which I may disagree. I do not call them heresy.
(I believe in verbal plenary inspiration of scriptures in their original autographs. I realize, however, that this is in the statement of faith of many denominational bodies, including mine, but not in the creeds.)
The fact is the Genesis is an historical narrative, there is no indication anywhere in the book that it's meant to be taken figuratively. Adam, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are described in the same matter of fact terms and can only be understood as literal people.
There is no reason for being arrogant. Jesus did not imply that Moses wrote genesis, that was YOUR implication not his.
Then again calling me a liar
when I just simply disagree YOUR notation/interpretation Jesus implied that Moses wrote book of genesis is akin to a little kid who complains that the world doesn't always agree with him.
Accusing me of calling Jesus a liar is a blatantly false accusation.
Keep this false accusation up, and I will file a compliant to the mods and lets see if they will straighten you up.
There's no indication it's supposed to be literal.
It was Moses who wrote the first five books of the Bible and no one else. There were no dissenting voices on this matter among the 1st century Christians but if you can find one then name him, please.
That is a terrible, terrible error.
But I'll let Mark Kennedy converse with you on this issue.
Well that's your opinion. You have no actual substantiation of the contrary, though I'm sure you are quite adept in at least making it appear as if you do.
That is what YECism is all about, after all. It's not as if over the past three decades YEC's have gotten anywhere. Has it not occurred to you that YECism has never gotten away with one single thing they have posited? Go look at the AiG site, and see the list of things that have been debunked. It's practically everything, and the list just grows.YECism is simply wrong and the only reason it exists today is because of denial.
That's only true traditionally speaking. The fact is that it was probably written by a successor, being that it isn't written in the 1st person.
Oh please, your are acting arrogant as clear as day. Having a differing view/interpretation does not make me a lair. This isn't the case on biblical truth; this is a case of ones differing interpretation.Don't call me 'arrogant' when in fact I was only being truthful. But apparently you don't like being told the truth on this matter.
He was talking about command of Moses and describes how isn't always like that. Not that Moses wrote genesis, I don't see how you got that.I said, "You aren't telling the truth". I won't back down on that because every single time Jesus mentioned the pentateuch in any passage where Moses is mentioned He regarded MOSES as the author/writer.
Example; Matthew 19:7 "He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."
Again he never says anything about Moses wrote genesis, just talking about command of moses and how it isn't always like that.Mark 10:
"3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."
No that's your assertion.Whenever Jesus spoke of "Moses and the prophets" He was talking about everything from Genesis to Deuteronomy...and the prophets included all of the prophetic and historical books from Joshua to Malachi.
and it well known that they think that earth is still and the sun revolves around it.This has been well known throughout the history of Christianity.
Appeal to tradition much?It was Moses who wrote the first five books of the Bible and no one else. There were no dissenting voices on this matter among the 1st century Christians but if you can find one then name him, please.
Your in a state of denial if you think your not interpreting it.No, it is not my 'interpretation' but God's Word that you differ with.
Jesus quoted Moses...and named him several times. However, if you can give me the name/names of the 'true' author of the first five books of the Bible then I will apologize. If you can't do that then I stand on what I said.
Give the name/names, please.
The burden of proof rest on you. Not the one who is being skeptical.Be my guest. Unless you can come up with the requested name/names and document it then you are the one who owes an apology.
Name him/them.
The substantiation is God's Word. Perhaps you have heard of it; you know, the book that nowhere even hints about such a thing as theistic evolution.
You are really on a different page than faithful Christians who have believed in the six-day creation for 18 centuries (& also those of us since then) during which time no one had ever heard of Darwin or evolution.
Were you living before Darwin(1859) you would almost certainly be a six-day creationist like I am for there is no other teaching in the Bible.
But I get you; in your mind scripture will always take a back seat to neo-Darwinism.
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