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gideon123

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OP

the only thing that you need to know ... hold onto hope, speak with love and compassion, and stand firm in your Faith.

Jesus will not forget his sheep! When does a pastor ever forget his sheep?

You can rest peacefully each night.

Blessings!!
 
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Hank77

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Holy Bible , All bible prophetic books and the gospel
It's obvious to me that the other posters here that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture have read the exact same scriptures you have.
 
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GTW27

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If we look deeper, we will see a pass over like in the old. Blood of an unblemished lamb on the doorpost. And in the new, The Blood of The Lamb covering those that are Truly His(sealed). Enter your abode until the overwhelming scourge passes through .But, there will be those that are martyred for standing firm in the faith. Fear not, for your crown awaits you.
 
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☦Marius☦

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Doesn't the Bible imply the end times will come when few even remember the name of Christ, or his teachings? And that's why the Antichrist will so easily take over?

Also when has God ever implied Christians are to be free of suffering? After all the early Church did endure persecution.


Can you give a patristic quote to substantiate your claim that the early church believed in the rapture?
 
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redleghunter

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Ron understand the verse reference but not your line of thinking in the list form.

Is your view the 'pre wrath' view where the rapture occurs after the 6th seal (the wrath of the Lamb) or before the first seal? I ask because you even introduce everything happens after the tribulation. Just a bit confused.

Thanks
 
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redleghunter

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I understand this to be the historic view. However, even in your quoted above 'a rapture' occurs meaning a 'caught up.' I think what you deem false is what is considered a 'caught up' before the Second Coming of Christ as conquering King.
 
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seventysevens

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It's obvious to me that the other posters here that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture have read the exact same scriptures you have.
There are many scriptures they have not read which is why they have a misunderstanding - I notice you ignored my last post that highlights the point which you cannot refute because you don't understand either - to properly understand you must put the time into study - those who don't will not understand - they will believe whatever 'seems right' but the WORD says

there is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

People choose what seems right in their own eyes - but not willing to study things they think they already know which leads them in the wrong direction
 
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FenderTL5

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The 'Left Behind' pre-Trib, pop-culture version of a rapture is a relatively modern fiction.
There will be a second coming, so keep your lamp trimmed and burning.
 
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Hank77

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People choose what seems right in their own eyes - but not willing to study things they think they already know which leads them in the wrong direction
Many men prior to the 1900s spent years and years studying the scriptures, learning the Biblical languages, studying the old MSS, reading historical accounts, etc. and then writing commentaries of the scriptures. I think they have studied more than you or I.
 
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Erik Nelson

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yes, according to the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible, 1 Th 4 parallels & borrows language from the Olivet Discourse of Mt 24 (about the Judgement of Jerusalem in 70 AD to Second Coming).

Both use the terms "coming on clouds" to allude to Dan 7:13, which envisions the Messiah defeating the 4th Beast of Daniel = Beast of Rev 19.

So, I understand:

1 Th 4 = Mt 24 = Dan 7 = Rev 19
Judgement of Jerusalem in 70 AD to 2nd Coming event of Rev 19

It may be, that the most fantastic images are all allusions to the same fantastic images of OT Apocalyptic writings. The point may not have been quite so literal, so much as an obtuse way of referencing Apocalyptic writings -- to show time on the "Apocalyptic timeline", without saying anything specific or overt which would antagonize the Romans who might read everything at any time.
 
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Randy777

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the second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.
I agree mostly except as below
The removal of God the Holy Spirit?? Why? We have that Spirit in us as well as in the world.
 
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seventysevens

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I have studied for many many years so i doubt that - thing is you have to study the who what where why and how , each can take a deep study - post tribber don't understand that it is Jesus who designed , and implements the Great tribulation that would kill all livings beings if Jesus did not come to put an end to it because they don't understand that - they believe it is all about doing works for God through that horrible time that Jesus causes to happen - they think that
it is all about what people do for God - that is against what scripture tells us - but people follow a false teaching ------just like MANY MANY church goers fell into the false teaching that if you give a seed offering of $1000 that they will receive a hundred fold return - which has deceived thousands of folks thinking that they will get wealthy that way , Yes God can give a hundred fold but it is not because they gave some pastor cash dollars

God did not ask you if you needed HIM to die for you before He did it !

It IS about what HE has done for us - not what we do for HIM - HE did not ever say that we have to go through a time designed to punish unrepentant sinners - He takes us out of the time period altogether - if people choose to sin and when He takes us out - the sinner will remain
 
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☦Marius☦

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Then post the verses you claim teach this
 
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dqhall

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In the Book of Acts by Luke, a companion of Paul, it was written:

Acts 1:9 (World English Bible - Public Domain) When he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up, and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 While they were looking steadfastly into the sky as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white clothing, 11 who also said, “You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky.”

I expect one return of Jesus. I do not hold to the teachings in Revelation of a millennial reign with Satan kept as a prisoner in a pit for a thousand years, only to be unleashed again for a time of tribulation and then a second judgement.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I see it a lot being written and been told it. I want to know why people believe it is false.

I consider it my only hope each day. ....

The doctrine of "the rapture" is not something believed by the overwhelming mass majority of Christians because it's simply never been a Christian teaching. The doctrine was invented and developed in the 1800's, chiefly by an Irish preacher named John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. It came to the United States when several accolytes of Darby's teaching began preaching the doctrine across the Atlantic, some of these early Dispensationalist preachers include Dwight L. Moody. Another man, Cyrus Scofield published the Scofield Reference Bible, which was the King James Version with explanations and reference notes in the margins which advocated a Dispensationalist interpretation. Several seminaries were established to preach the new doctrine.

The new doctrine began to develop more support in the 20th century, specifically among Fundamentalists and Evangelicals, and by the 70's and 80's had become firmly entrenched in American Evangelical theology, and in the 80's and 90's a booming business of books that advocated the doctrine swelled in popularity, including Hal Lindsay's The Late Great Planet Earth, and more popular Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkin's Left Behind series of novels.

It is a popular doctrine in select Christian circles, but has never been accepted by mainstream, traditional Christian churches on account that these doctrines are at odds with what Christianity has always taught, and for the simple fact that they aren't biblical.

The idea that Jesus is going to snatch people into heaven prior to a seven year period of tribulation is no where to be found in Scripture, and it was never taught in the early Church, or by anyone in the history of the Christian religion until less than 200 years ago.

That's why many Christians say the rapture is a lie, because it's simply not orthodox Christian teaching, it's not biblical teaching, it's a modern, new doctrine invented less than two centuries ago that is accepted by a very small minority of Christians.

The historic, orthodox, and mainstream teaching is that the Lord Jesus will return, in glory, as judge of the living and the dead, and that when He comes the dead will be resurrected, and we who are alive shall share with them in their transformation as Christ comes and God makes everything new.

When Jesus comes, it will not be hidden, it will not be a secret, it will be known by all, as Scripture says, "Every eye shall see Him" (Revelation 1:7), when He comes He comes in judgment, even as it was in the days of Noah where people were getting married and going about their business as usual when, without warning, the flood came and took the wicked away--"two will be in a field, one will be taken, and the other left" (Matthew 24:40) refers to Judgment, it was the wicked who were taken away in the flood. When the Lord returns, it is in glory, as judge of the living and the dead, "Behold! I am coming soon, and I will repay everyone for their deeds" (Revelation 22:12).

Christ will come, at a time we don't know (Matthew 24:36), and when He comes the dead will be raised (1 Corinthians 15:20-28), and we who are alive at His coming will join with them, caught in the air to meet the returning and victorious Lord Jesus as He comes down from heaven to the earth (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), in judgment (2 Timothy 4:1), and when He does He will hand all things over to the Father, and God will be all in all, and He will make all things new: A new heavens and a new earth (Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:5).

This is the historic belief of the Christian Church, and what is believed by most Christians--Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox alike.

The "rapture" is simply a false doctrine based on very bad interpretations of Scripture and modern human imagination.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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seventysevens

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Then post the verses you claim teach this

Problem is with you approach - IF you really wanted to know YOU would study - since you choose not to you have shown you are willing to follow whatever people say that makes it easy for you to not have to study - that is all on you -
It does not matter to me what you believe - since you cannot refute what I have said already - there is no reason to give you anything else -
 
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☦Marius☦

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If you won't put in the effort to back up your claims when you are so passionately declaring us all to be uneducated in the word, then I can only assume one of two things

A) you aren't actually passionate enough about your own beliefs to defend them with sources, and therefore probably barely believe then yourself

B) that you can't actually substantiate your claims, and must therefore turn it into a personal attack on us for not being "studied" enough to agree with you.
 
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seventysevens

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Simple PROVE your claim that I am wrong - you don't want to put time or effort -you cant substantiate anything you say
Until you show that you can prove me wrong -.....
 
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☦Marius☦

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Simple PROVE your claim that I am wrong - you don't want to put time or effort -you cant substantiate anything you say
Until you show that you can prove me wrong -.....

You mean prove to you, that a concept that doesn't exist in the Bible, isn't in the Bible....

Am I supposed to quote all of Revelation?

You are the one trying to prove a claim unhistorical, and un Biblical- and attacking others I might add.

You are going to have to be the one to show us where in the Bible your claims of rapture are substantiated
 
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