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It's obvious to me that the other posters here that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture have read the exact same scriptures you have.Holy Bible , All bible prophetic books and the gospel
Well every scripture that I have seen that people use to support "rapture" was actually about the second coming. I dont believe in the rapture. The famous "catching away" is literally at the second coming not before. This should be called the second coming or at the second coming...
And, Jesus only comes twice, not three times.
Second, there are too many scriptures saying and supporting that we will go through tribulation. In fact we should expect to be persecuted and to be hated. I also think people mix up what is tribulation and what is God's judgement. In revelation, we see a similar senerio that we see in exodus.
(The Jews went through some of the plagues but after a certain point they were protected from the plagues. )
EDIT (Correction), the Jews were protected from the plagues as it states to a certain point in the list of plagues upon Egypt but that did not mean the Jews did not endure hardship before during and/or after the plagues. Remember the point of the plagues are to encourage the people to repent or to encourage those who are turned away from God to turn towards him. Even the Jews had to smear lambs blood to avoid the last plague of Egypt or they would be experiencing directly, that plague themselves too.
I believe the same about revelation. I also find it harmful to teach that we will be "raptured away" before tribulation.
Third the rapture theology was started by John Darby in 1830 AD and before hand it was foreign to the Christian world.
No one knows the day or the hour
Holy Bible , All bible prophetic books and the gospel
Would you intentionally put your loved ones into a death situation? When you are the one who created that situation , if the answer is yes , that shows you do not them them ,
if you tell people what to do to keep from being in a death situation and they defy you , it is their own fault they are in the situation , not that you said they had to be in that situation to prove they love you because that is not love either
Ron understand the verse reference but not your line of thinking in the list form.the second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. (mid trib)
I understand this to be the historic view. However, even in your quoted above 'a rapture' occurs meaning a 'caught up.' I think what you deem false is what is considered a 'caught up' before the Second Coming of Christ as conquering King.I believe it is false. I do not believe in two "Second Comings" (the "Rapture" and another one).
I believe that either I will die and go to be with Jesus, or that Jesus will come for me and other Christians when He returns, as the Bible says:
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
There are many scriptures they have not read which is why they have a misunderstanding - I notice you ignored my last post that highlights the point which you cannot refute because you don't understand either - to properly understand you must put the time into study - those who don't will not understand - they will believe whatever 'seems right' but the WORD saysIt's obvious to me that the other posters here that don't believe in a pre-trib rapture have read the exact same scriptures you have.
Many men prior to the 1900s spent years and years studying the scriptures, learning the Biblical languages, studying the old MSS, reading historical accounts, etc. and then writing commentaries of the scriptures. I think they have studied more than you or I.People choose what seems right in their own eyes - but not willing to study things they think they already know which leads them in the wrong direction
yes, according to the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible, 1 Th 4 parallels & borrows language from the Olivet Discourse of Mt 24 (about the Judgement of Jerusalem in 70 AD to Second Coming).The rapture is real...Paul wrote of it and is the only person to ever use the actual word rapture...the Greek word for rapture "harpazo"...however, he said it happens after the second coming and after the resurrection of the dead in Christ so it's a post trib rapture not a pre-trib.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Context is the second coming!
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Context is the second coming!
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This is the second coming!
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is the rapture! The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul!
So, the proper order of events according to scripture:
1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30
So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.
I agree mostly except as belowthe second coming
the resurrection
the rapture,
the reunion of saints....
the removal of God the Holy Spirit
all simultaneous and instantly in man-time
after the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 has ended.
I have studied for many many years so i doubt that - thing is you have to study the who what where why and how , each can take a deep study - post tribber don't understand that it is Jesus who designed , and implements the Great tribulation that would kill all livings beings if Jesus did not come to put an end to it because they don't understand that - they believe it is all about doing works for God through that horrible time that Jesus causes to happen - they think thatMany men prior to the 1900s spent years and years studying the scriptures, learning the Biblical languages, studying the old MSS, reading historical accounts, etc. and then writing commentaries of the scriptures. I think they have studied more than you or I.
There are many scriptures they have not read which is why they have a misunderstanding - I notice you ignored my last post that highlights the point which you cannot refute because you don't understand either - to properly understand you must put the time into study - those who don't will not understand - they will believe whatever 'seems right' but the WORD says
there is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
People choose what seems right in their own eyes - but not willing to study things they think they already know which leads them in the wrong direction
In the Book of Acts by Luke, a companion of Paul, it was written:Harpazo is the original Greek word in scripture which was translated into Latin as raperium , rapiemur . rapio and then translated into English as rapture by the Protestants , they all mean the same thing referring to the sudden unexpected snatching away, catching away ,caught away suddenly by force and taken to another location
St. Jerome translated the Geek verb harpazo that Paul uses in 1 Thess 4:17 into the latin verb rapiemur back in about the year 400 and later on that latin verb was translated into the English as “caught up” or “caught away”
1 Thess 4:17 ” Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
In verse 18 we are to take comfort with the words he is teaching
Book of Acts 8:34-40
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing
The story of Phillip baptism of the eunuch , read all verses 34-40 and notice that the words “caught away” in verse 39 are in the Greek writing of Acts 8:39 is Harpazo – identically exactly the very same word used in Thessalonians where Paul speaks of the rapture of the whole church.
in a split second as they come up out of the water Phillip is raptured -caught away -harpazo and taken to a city 30 miles away in a mere split second of time., God snatched Phillip and placed him in a city 30 miles away .
Strong’s Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
Definition: I seize, snatch
HELPS Word-studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize);
It is the action the Lord uses to take people from one place to put them in another place - In 1Thess 4 it is to be place of Jesus presence for eternity
I see it a lot being written and been told it. I want to know why people believe it is false.
I consider it my only hope each day. ....
Then post the verses you claim teach this
Problem is with you approach - IF you really wanted to know YOU would study - since you choose not to you have shown you are willing to follow whatever people say that makes it easy for you to not have to study - that is all on you -
It does not matter to me what you believe - since you cannot refute what I have said already - there is no reason to give you anything else -
Simple PROVE your claim that I am wrong - you don't want to put time or effort -you cant substantiate anything you sayIf you won't put in the effort to back up your claims when you are so passionately declaring us all to be uneducated in the word, then I can only assume one of two things
A) you aren't actually passionate enough about your own beliefs to defend them with sources, and therefore probably barely believe then yourself
B) that you can't actually substantiate your claims, and must therefore turn it into a personal attack on us for not being "studied" enough to agree with you.
Simple PROVE your claim that I am wrong - you don't want to put time or effort -you cant substantiate anything you say
Until you show that you can prove me wrong -.....
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