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Gene duplication may play a more important role than substitution or indel mutations.
Uh-oh. mark is allergic to gene duplication - perhaps because it destroys the "no new information" creationist line. I'd expect a negative reaction. Or a hanky, at least. Probably not a realization that gene duplication is a common way to add new information to a genome.
Papias
This is precisely the problem. I am astonished whenever some layperson claims to have undermined an argument endorsed by thousands of trained expertsFunny that the scientists weren't aware of all this, whereas you, a lay person, on the sidelines, were, don't you think?
This is precisely the problem. I am astonished whenever some layperson claims to have undermined an argument endorsed by thousands of trained experts
While it is theoretically possible that a layperson could accomplish such a coup, it is, of course, exceedingly unlikely.
Funny that the scientists weren't aware of all this, whereas you, a lay person, on the sidelines, were, don't you think?
Actually, complete removals of genes can be extremely beneficial. Can you imagine the damage if we still retained functional gill formation genes, but none of those for the internal structures that made them work properly?Your still splitting semantical hairs. The only way it's going to be functional is if the substitution results in a viable protein which has to get past functional constraints. Sure it happens, even in human protein coding genes but the deleterious effects far outweigh any possible, let alone imagined, adaptive evolutionary giant leaps. So far I have just laid a little groundwork with comparisons and the likelihood of these presumed adaptive changes.
Here is the actual problem:
Big Brains Require an Explanation.
About 2mya the nearly threefold expansion of the human brain from that of apes happens almost over night. Really not seeing a lot of cause and effect explanations, just a lot of speculative scenarios and of course the molecular basis is completely unknown.
Have a nice day
Mark
Yes, but the fetus does develop gills, right?Actually, complete removals of genes can be extremely beneficial. Can you imagine the damage if we still retained functional gill formation genes, but none of those for the internal structures that made them work properly?
Nope, just folds where gills would develop, and another mechanism removes them.Yes, but the fetus does develop gills, right?
Doesn't that suggest to you that Haeckel; is right, that the development of the fetus recapitulates the history of evolution?Nope, just folds where gills would develop, and another mechanism removes them.
Doesn't that suggest to you that Haeckel; is right, that the development of the fetus recapitulates the history of evolution?
No, I don't think it was. He was simply arguing that the fetus recapitulates the history of evolution.Since humans don't develop gills, that would seem to be a problem for Haeckel. However, it is correct to say that Ontogeny evidences Phylogeny, even if it doesn't recapitulate it. The arrangement of the tetrapod recurrent laryngeal nerve is a good example of this.
To an extent, it does, via looking at observations of actual fetuses. For example, that there is webbing between the digits of human fetuses for a period of time, and for a brief moment, developing birds have teeth. His basic idea was pretty much right, despite the flawed way he reached it. Like getting the answer of a math problem right, even though you didn't solve the equation in any valid way and pretty much just got lucky with the answer. In terms of looking at human fetuses, anyways, I think he did get to see ones from other animals. However, these "precursor" structures never develop as far as the functional versions, and are broken down.Doesn't that suggest to you that Haeckel; is right, that the development of the fetus recapitulates the history of evolution?
To an extent, it does, via looking at observations of actual fetuses. For example, that there is webbing between the digits of human fetuses for a period of time, and for a brief moment, developing birds have teeth. His basic idea was pretty much right, despite the flawed way he reached it. Like getting the answer of a math problem right, even though you didn't solve the equation in any valid way and pretty much just got lucky with the answer. In terms of looking at human fetuses, anyways, I think he did get to see ones from other animals. However, these "precursor" structures never develop as far as the functional versions, and are broken down.
He made and published some of the diagrams before getting the fetuses in some cases, making those diagrams speculative. Don't know why you are bothering to bring him up, though.What do you see as flawed about the way Haeckel worked? He went to a lot of trouble to obtain actual fetuses of humans and animals and compare them. His woodcut diagrams compare very well with modern photography of the fetus.
Well, we were discussing the fetus, I think. Also, creation-science people were the ones who bought Haeckel out of retirement. They claimed he fakes his data, was fired, and that there is no comparison between the faked fetuses and real ones. They used this as an attack against evolution. The truth is, none of these charges are true. I have no idea where you got the idea that he did the diagrams before he had the specimens. There is no indication of that in the historical record. Probably just another example of creation-science propaganda.He made and published some of the diagrams before getting the fetuses in some cases, making those diagrams speculative. Don't know why you are bothering to bring him up, though.
Well, we were discussing the fetus, I think. Also, creation-science people were the ones who bought Haeckel out of retirement. They claimed he fakes his data, was fired, and that there is no comparison between the faked fetuses and real ones. They used this as an attack against evolution. The truth is, none of these charges are true. I have no idea where you got the idea that he did the diagrams before he had the specimens. There is no indication of that in the historical record. Probably just another example of creation-science propaganda.
Yes, thanks. I think I've already been there, but I will check again.You might find this rehabilitation, if not outright vindication of Haeckel interesting.
http://home.uchicago.edu/~rjr6/articles/Haeckel--fraud not proven.pdf
No, I don't think it was. He was simply arguing that the fetus recapitulates the history of evolution.
Found an interesting paper on human brain evolution and the possible role of DUF1220 copy number. They argue that the expansion of the number of genes with the DUF1220 protein domain is strongly correlated with brain size and intelligence. Here is a snapshot of one of the figures:
View attachment 174592
https://www.researchgate.net/profil..._expansion/links/543be4550cf24a6ddb97b9e9.pdf
Gene duplication may play a more important role than substitution or indel mutations.
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