Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 14, 2012

bugkiller said:
Really?How does one come to such a conclusion?

bugkiller

GW >> What are you talking about? Would you please quote back what I said?

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Gentlewarrior01 said:
GW >> What are you talking about? Would you please quote back what I said?

Surely you must be putting me on. I responded to a one liner and am asked what I am talking about? Are you serious?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Gentlewarrior01 said:
Only ignorant people can believe that..

Believe what?

bugkiller

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 14, 2012

Originally Posted by Gentlewarrior01

Only ignorant people can believe that..

bugkiller said:
Believe what?

bugkiller

I assume he was referring to my post just before his post.
Who knows

...

Gentlewarrior01 · Nov 14, 2012

bugkiller said:
Surely you must be putting me on. I responded to a one liner and am aske what I am talking about? Are you serious?

bugkiller

GW >> That wasn't me. This is why I was asking to quote back...

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Gentlewarrior01 said:
GW >> What are you talking about? Would you please quote back what I said?

Iguess one should read the quoted post I responded to. Here just for you is what I responded to -

Originally Posted by boldlion

Honouring the Sabbath Day is not an option !

bugkiller

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 7, 2013

bugkiller said:
Iguess one should read the quoted post I responded to. Here just for you is what I responded to -

Originally Posted by boldlion

Honouring the Sabbath Day is not an option !

Click to expand...

bugkiller

Thks for that clarification.......

.

LarryP2 · Mar 14, 2014

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments seemingly at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the "ten commandments" as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The SDA argument that Constantine unilaterally destroyed the Sabbath has been forcibly disproven by their own Sabbath Expert, Samuelle Bachiochi.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

maco · Mar 14, 2014

LarryP2 said:
Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments seemingly at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the "ten commandments" as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The SDA argument that Constantine unilaterally destroyed the Sabbath has been forcibly disproven by their own Sabbath Expert, Samuelle Bachiochi.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

Man counts 613, God counts 10 and writes them with His own finger. The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger.

LarryP2 · Mar 15, 2014

"The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger."

Judaizers will just never understand the New Testament! Jesus's Commandments will be written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit! THAT is the miracle! God can write anything on a piece of stone any day of the week. It is the human heart that is the hard one.

BobRyan · Mar 15, 2014

LarryP2 said:
"The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger."

Judaizers will just never understand the New Testament! Jesus's Commandments will be written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit! .

In the NT it is the "Commandments of God" that are to be obeyed - 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19 and as even these Sunday Sources listed below figured out - that includes the TEN Commandments.

LarryP2 · Mar 15, 2014

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

SDAs THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they do not keep the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest sabbath keepers have searched out and find the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the culture that had developed over 150 years, honest Adventists have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Furthermore, they have also rejected St. Paul as a False Prophet and someone who they claim illegitimately introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their system of cult bondage.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

from scratch · Mar 16, 2014

BobRyan said:
In the NT it is the "Commandments of God" that are to be obeyed - 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19 and as even these Sunday Sources listed below figured out - that includes the TEN Commandments.

But you refuse to accept the covenant has changed from law to promises - from obligations to acceptance - from a 2 way agreement to a one way agreement.

from scratch · Mar 16, 2014

LarryP2 said:
"The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger."

Judaizers will just never understand the New Testament! Jesus's Commandments will be written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit! THAT is the miracle! God can write anything on a piece of stone any day of the week. It is the human heart that is the hard one.

So maybe they could say all the rest of the Bible is man made line o ...... (supply your own favorite word, I can think of a few that would fit very nicely) I have no idea why they even bother with quoting anything else.

LarryP2 · Mar 16, 2014

The point I was trying to make is that NO modern Sabbatarians are actually keeping the Sabbath. They THINK they are. They CLAIM they are.

But they are not. They are not even CLOSE to keeping it. And at the same time, their cultish Ebionite Heresy drives them to imagine themselves superior to other Christians who worship the Resurrected Christ instead of the dead Jewish Sabbath. Poor deluded souls!

To top it off, they expect that everyone else is going to take their "Sabbath Keeping" claims seriously! As though they imagine that everyone is as deluded as they are.

Modern Sabbatarians are similar to an adolescent that fantasizes they are a brilliant General because they have watched a war movie. The "Sabbath" that Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping is a hilarious, Americanized Processed Cheese Product, compressed Cheese Whiz version of the Sabbath. It bears NO resemblance to the Real Cheese. American protestant "Sabbath Keepers" resemble someone that thinks Pizza Hut serves Italian food.

Christians who worship on Sunday have abandoned the delusion that ANYBODY who is not a Jew is actually keeping the Sabbath.

from scratch · Mar 16, 2014

BobRyan said:
In the NT it is the "Commandments of God" that are to be obeyed - 1John 5:1-4, 1Cor 7:19 and as even these Sunday Sources listed below figured out - that includes the TEN Commandments.

Yep we don't need Jesus. ehehehehehehe Dang you're funny.

LarryP2 · Mar 16, 2014

from Scratch,

You just can't take them seriously. They aren't keeping the Sabbath anymore than you or I do. You and I are merely honest enough to admit that we don't.

BobRyan · Mar 20, 2014

k4c said:
Should Christians keep the seventh day Sabbath holy?

Are we being deceived by not remembering the Sabbath?

...
What are your thoughts?

Certainly you make some very good Bible based points in the OP. Thank you for sharing with us.

What is interesting is that even the pro-Sunday sources at the end of this post admit to the continued authority of the 4th commandment for Christians (a point they get right)., Although they claim to be able to bend it to meet man-made tradition (the part where they are not correct.).

LarryP2 · Mar 21, 2014

The SDA Church has an OVERWHELMING history of denying the Divinity of Christ and belittling the effect of the Resurrection! For the first 100 years of its existence, it taught nothing but the extreme Arian heresy! Do you REALLY want me to post quotes from the founders? It is an extremely solid case. Here is just one:

"It is well known that the early Adventist leaders and founders were Arians, who denied the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. Their article "The Doctrine of the Trinity Among Adventists" by Gerhard Pfandi, of their Biblical Research Institute (referred to as "Trinity" henceforth) tells us on page 1:

"Two of the principal founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Joseph Bates and James White, were originally members of the Christian Connection Church which rejected the doctrine of the TrinityOther prominent Adventists who spoke out against the Trinity were J.N. Loughborough, R.F. Cottrell, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith"
These SDA leaders denied Jesus deity and the Trinity. Joseph Bates, raised in the Congregational Church, repudiated the Trinity doctrine upon joining the Christian Connection Church. Bates learned the Sabbath doctrine from Rachel Oakes, a Seventh-day Baptist; however, Bates did not accept the Seventh-day Baptist doctrine of the Trinity. So, early Adventists had more in common with the Shakers, who not only kept the Sabbath and had prophets, but also believed in Arianism. Only by the turn of the century did Adventism begin to move out of Arianism to espousing Jesus deity, and subsequently, the Trinity. This was hard to do in light of Ellen Whites statements, spanning over 50 years, upholding Arianism."
Did Ellen White teach A Different God?

At best, the SDA's position on the Divinity of Christ and the Trinity is only slightly different than the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's no wonder that the Millerite debacle spawned all manner of virulent anti-Christian cults!

Your scripture sculpting of unrelated texts and partial texts is nothing more than a ruse to get real Christians to doubt their salvation. the SDA cult emphasizes the Sabbath as the central doctrine because they really DO believe that is the source of their Salvation. That has NOTHING to do with Christianity!

It's no war against the real Truth of Christianity. Its an argument against a plainly non-Christian counterfeit. That is why St. Paul argued so vehemently against the SDA Church of his time: The Galatian heresy.

There is NO power over sin in the SDA Church's pathetic emphasis on the Mosaic Law. If there is one common theme in the Epistles of St. Paul, it is that the Real Deal gives people power over sin.

Your repetitive arguments for the Sabbath are just a ruse to get gullible Christians to divert themselves into a miserable cultish system. It's pretty easy to see that you NEVER discuss the Gospel with anywhere NEAR the intensity that you push the Sabbath. It is plain the Sabbath is FAR AND AWAY more important to you than the Resurrection!

LarryP2 · Mar 21, 2014

Here's a thread that is all too indicative of the Adventist depreciation of the Resurrection. It is a thread on the Sabbath in the "Traditional Adventism" forums:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560580/

I tediously scrolled down through each and every single post and found just four mentions of either "Jesus" or the "Resurrection."

Over 600 posts.

One thing we can be assured of, the Sabbath emphatically does not focus one's mind on the precious savior and his resurrection. We can also be assured beyond all reasonable doubt that Sabbath Keeping has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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