Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

ricker · Apr 25, 2011

RefCath said:
yes we should keep the sabbath, Sunday is the Christian Sabbath.

Sunday is the Lord's Day, not the Sabbath.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 26, 2011

ricker said:
Sunday is the Lord's Day, not the Sabbath.

GE:

Sunday is neither the Lord's Day, nor the Sabbath.

"The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD God" : "God thus concerning did speak : And God the Seventh Day from ALL his works : RESTED" in that "This Jesus whom you have crucified, God made both : _LORD_ and Christ" having RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

ricker · Apr 26, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Sunday is neither the Lord's Day, nor the Sabbath.

"The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD God" : "God thus concerning did speak : And God the Seventh Day from ALL his works : RESTED" in that "This Jesus whom you have crucified, God made both : _LORD_ and Christ" having RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Then why do millions of Christians from the Apostles time until now gather together to worship and praise God on Sunday? Are you that much smarter than countless earnest, prayerful theologians throughout history?

Arthur57 · Apr 27, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Ja, if you conveniently present halve my "precept".

I'm wondering what is your concept about what Jesus has done on the cross for mankind? Did you understand his cry: "it is finished" on the cross?

Arthur57 · Apr 27, 2011

Is the fourth commandment done away with?

NO, AND NEVER!

THE 4TH COMMANDMENT STANDS FOREVER, TO BE A DAY OF REST AND BLESSING FOR THE REDEEMED IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH.

I challenged anyone who can PROOF with the Scripture that the 4th commandment has been done away with!! That the 4th commandment has no longer jurisdiction over Christ' believers.

from scratch · Apr 28, 2011

Arthur57 said:
Is the fourth commandment done away with?

NO, AND NEVER!

THE 4TH COMMANDMENT STANDS FOREVER, TO BE A DAY OF REST AND BLESSING FOR THE REDEEMED IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH.

I challenged anyone who can PROOF with the Scripture that the 4th commandment has been done away with!! That the 4th commandment has no longer jurisdiction over Christ' believers.

I present Jer 31:31-34, Hosea 2:11 and Jesus' own words found in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. What do I yet lack?

from scratch · Apr 28, 2011

Arthur57 said:
I'm wondering what is your concept about what Jesus has done on the cross for mankind? Did you understand his cry: "it is finished" on the cross?

I'd love to read your version.

from scratch · Apr 28, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Sunday is neither the Lord's Day, nor the Sabbath.

"The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD God" : "God thus concerning did speak : And God the Seventh Day from ALL his works : RESTED" in that "This Jesus whom you have crucified, God made both : _LORD_ and Christ" having RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

Do you have a single as in any Scripture to show that the sabbath is the Lord's day?

Arthur57 · Apr 28, 2011

from scratch said:
I'd love to read your version.

I'm waiting GE reply, because I commented on his statement, I don't want to open an Off topic statement in this thread. If you want to know what my version is, better you open another thread.

Arthur57 · Apr 28, 2011

from scratch said:
I present Jer 31:31-34, Hosea 2:11 and Jesus' own words found in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. What do I yet lack?

I already present my view on these verses in another thread (Does the Sabbath still exist), It's clear presentation, no need to repeat it here. Also, you can't deny what I have presented in that thread.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 1, 2011

ricker said:
Then why do millions of Christians from the Apostles time until now gather together to worship and praise God on Sunday? Are you that much smarter than countless earnest, prayerful theologians throughout history?

GE:

Wrong assumption!
Bare fact is,
Christians during the Apostles' time, gathered together to worship and praise God on Sabbaths and not once on Sundays.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 1, 2011

from scratch said:
Do you have a single as in any Scripture to show that the sabbath is the Lord's day?

GE:

I need just one Scripture? You are generous! Thanks!

There in fact is only ONE TRUTH which shows that the Sabbath is the Lord's Day. And many texts of course....

The single truth is, Jesus rose from the dead "when suddenly there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord from heaven descending hurled way the stone from the sepulchre."

That happened on the day and in the moment and event whereby "the LORD on the Seventh Day REVIVED", that is, "RESTED-UP". Exodus 31:17 Isaiah 57:15.

You can monitor this information against Matthew 28:1 KJV.

You could also weigh this evidence against many other things, like Jesus' own teachings and deeds, and the subsequent practice of the Body of Christ's Own.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 1, 2011

Arthur57 said:
Is the fourth commandment done away with?

NO, AND NEVER!

THE 4TH COMMANDMENT STANDS FOREVER, TO BE A DAY OF REST AND BLESSING FOR THE REDEEMED IN HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH.

I challenged anyone who can PROOF with the Scripture that the 4th commandment has been done away with!! That the 4th commandment has no longer jurisdiction over Christ' believers.

GE:

Take this from a Sabbath-believing Christian, Colossians 2:14. There's your "PROOF".

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 1, 2011

from scratch said:
I present Jer 31:31-34, Hosea 2:11 and Jesus' own words found in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. What do I yet lack?

GE:

How do you place Jer 31:31-34 in the same category as Hosea 2:11? Jeremiah speaks about the Sabbaths of the LORD GOD; Hosea 2, of Israel's 'sabbaths'.

You see, Israel did exactly what the Christian Church does; they instituted their own 'sabbaths' and claimed they were the LORD'S. Like Christianity corrupted passover into 'Easter', and the Sabbath into Sunday.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 1, 2011

Arthur57 said:
I'm waiting GE reply, because I commented on his statement, I don't want to open an Off topic statement in this thread. If you want to know what my version is, better you open another thread.

GE:

You're going to wait long for my reply; I also don't want to go off-topic or off my head.

Arthur57 · May 1, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Wrong assumption!
Bare fact is,
Christians during the Apostles' time, gathered together to worship and praise God on Sabbaths and not once on Sundays.

This, you are correct!

Arthur57 · May 1, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Take this from a Sabbath-believing Christian, Colossians 2:14. There's your "PROOF".

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Giving this text as a proof that the 4th commandment has been done away with, I knew that you interpret this handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us is the 10Cs.

I have two versions in interpreting this handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, but none is cancelling the 10 Cs.

1. It is our record of sin. That stand against us, contrary to us, and Christ took it out of the way, so Satan could not blame us, and nailed it on his cross, for he had settled our debt with his blood.
2. It is the Mosaic law, concerning the handwritings of ordinances is the Ceremonial law.

Thus, looking from these 2 interpretation, neither said about cancelling the Ten Commandments.

Arthur57 · May 3, 2011

THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

James 1:25 - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:8-12.
8:If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9:But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10:For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11:For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12:So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

What is the perfect law of liberty in James 1:25; 2:12?
What is the royal law in James 2:8?

Are both the same law or not? Lets study it.

The royal law according to James is the law of love (v. 8)
Some one who shows favoritism to another break the law of love (James 2:1-7).
Then James continue with breaking one point of the law is breaking it all, he came up with the Ten Cs for comparison.

The question is: Is the Royal law the Ten Cs?? Is the law of love also the Ten Commandments?

Some folks believe it is a different law.

Lets see James point of view.

In the 10Cs, there is no law that you should not show favoritism to other man. But why James said you break the law of love if you did it and why he gave a comparison using the 10Cs? What is the connection between the law of love and the Ten Cs?

By showing favoritism to another man, you showed that you respect one above another. This is not love, but selfish love. So, this act is transgressing the Royal law, the law of love. This act doesnt transgress any one of the 10Cs, but it did transgress the spirit of the law, it did transgress the spiritual demands of the law, which is: Love your neighbor as yourself (v. 8).

And James giving a comparison, using the letters of the law now, if you keep all of the letters, but breaking one of it, you break the whole law. Is this just a comparison or is it the real thing? Did James keep the 10Cs? Of course he did! Therefore after proving that showing favoritism is breaking the royal law, breaking the spirit of the law, which is love, he compare it with if you keep the letter of the law but breaking one of it, you are guilty of breaking the whole law. He knew exactly that this law of love, as some folks said the law of Christ, is the spiritual demands of the 10Cs and nothing else, because Christ himself has summarized the 4 commands as love to God, and the remaining 6cs as love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36-40).

Arthur57 · May 3, 2011

Thus, keeping the letters is the ACT, and having love as the spirit of the law in your heart, is fulfilling the demands of the law. If you show favoritism even it didn’t transgress any of the letter, but does transgressed the spirit, thus transgress the whole law, because you are not fulfilling its demand.

Can the spiritual demands be separated from the letter? Some folks believe yes.
But No! Even Jesus didn’t separated it, he just tell us the spiritual demands of what is said in the letter.

Now, is the royal law which is the 10 Cs also the perfect law of liberty?

How could “Don’t kill” give you a liberty if you keep it?”
How could “Don’t steal” give you a liberty if you keep it?”
How could “Don’t covet” give you a liberty if you keep it?

Smart people understood, that transgressed those laws, you would lose your liberty, because you would be condemned by a civil trial and put in jail. At least you come under the law condemnation for your sins, and this is also loosing your liberty as a free man.

Thus, the royal law, which is the summary of the Ten Cs, is also the law of liberty.

Now we understood that the 10 Cs, is a law that all of us should accept and keep it, breaking one of it, is a transgression against the whole law. And in the middle of these 10cs, lays the Sabbath keeping law.

James 4;04: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

What is friend ship with the world? And why having this showing hatred towards God?

Breaking the law is friend ship with the world! Changing the law, rejecting the law, is friend ship with the world. And we knew who is the motivator and creator of all these law breaking, Satan himself.

------------------
“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6.

from scratch · May 4, 2011

Arthur57 said:
Thus, keeping the letters is the ACT, and having love as the spirit of the law in your heart, is fulfilling the demands of the law. If you show favoritism even it didnt transgress any of the letter, but does transgressed the spirit, thus transgress the whole law, because you are not fulfilling its demand.

Can the spiritual demands be separated from the letter? Some folks believe yes.
But No! Even Jesus didnt separated it, he just tell us the spiritual demands of what is said in the letter.

Now, is the royal law which is the 10 Cs also the perfect law of liberty?

How could Dont kill give you a liberty if you keep it?
How could Dont steal give you a liberty if you keep it?
How could Dont covet give you a liberty if you keep it?

Smart people understood, that transgressed those laws, you would lose your liberty, because you would be condemned by a civil trial and put in jail. At least you come under the law condemnation for your sins, and this is also loosing your liberty as a free man.

Thus, the royal law, which is the summary of the Ten Cs, is also the law of liberty.

Now we understood that the 10 Cs, is a law that all of us should accept and keep it, breaking one of it, is a transgression against the whole law. And in the middle of these 10cs, lays the Sabbath keeping law.

James 4;04: Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

What is friend ship with the world? And why having this showing hatred towards God?

Breaking the law is friend ship with the world! Changing the law, rejecting the law, is friend ship with the world. And we knew who is the motivator and creator of all these law breaking, Satan himself.

------------------
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6.

Perhaps the problem is the understanding of liberty.

Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

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