Is the fourth commandment a moral issue?

[k4c]

Should we keep the fourth commandment out of duty or moral obligation?

I would have to say moral obligation.

Why do I say it's a moral obligation when most of theologians say it's not a moral issue?

All morals come from God.

When something is moral it effects the conscience.

Any command of God is a moral issue because He speaks to the conscience of man.

When God told Adam not eat of the tree it was a moral command because when Adam ate of the tree it effected his conscience.

All of the Ten Commandments are a conscience issue but fallen man has snuffed out the voice of God.

Romans 1:18-19 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

It's not until God writes His law on the heart by the indwelling of His Spirit that they become a bothersome conscience issue.

So to me, anything that effects the conscience is a moral issue, which is seen in the commands of God.

What are your thoughts?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Should we keep the fourth commandment out of duty or moral obligation?

I would have to say moral obligation.

Why do I say it's a moral obligation when most of theologians say it's not a moral issue?

All morals come from God.

When something is moral it effects the conscience.

Any command of God is a moral issue because He speaks to the conscience of man.

When God told Adam not eat of the tree it was a moral command because when Adam ate of the tree it effected his conscience.

All of the Ten Commandments are a conscience issue but fallen man has snuffed out the voice of God.

Romans 1:18-19 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

It's not until God writes His law on the heart by the indwelling of His Spirit that they become a bothersome conscience issue.

So to me, anything that effects the conscience is a moral issue, which is seen in the commands of God.

What are your thoughts?

The same as your thoughts.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The problem is that the commandments don't really speak to morality. They are a civil/criminal law that speaks to the immorality of man. The magnified law of the new covenant speaks to the conscience and hardly resembles the old covenant law. One is the antithesis of the other.

Many believe that Christ was magnifying the law when said that it is just as bad to think evil as it was to do it. This magnifies the letter of the law only, not the true intent or spirit of the law, which is not to 'refrain from evil', but, to do good. The distinction is night and day.

owg

 

[k4c]

The problem is that the commandments don't really speak to morality. They are a civil/criminal law that speaks to the immorality of man. The magnified law of the new covenant speaks to the conscience and hardly resembles the old covenant law. One is the antithesis of the other.

Many believe that Christ was magnifying the law when said that it is just as bad to think evil as it was to do it. This magnifies the letter of the law only, not the true intent or spirit of the law, which is not to 'refrain from evil', but, to do good. The distinction is night and day.

owg

Even the doing of good has to be based on the right motive.

 

[pehkay]

THREE ASPECTS OF THE LAW

In order to understand this matter of the law, we must know the three aspects of the law: the principle of the law, the commandments of the law, and the rituals of the law. If you do not differentiate between these three things, you will never have a proper understanding of the law. As we have seen, the principle of the law is over. Today, in the dispensation of grace, God does not deal with us according to the principle of the law; rather, He deals with us according to the principle of faith. Whether or not we shall be justified, saved, and accepted by God depends on the principle of faith, not the principle of the law. As long as we have faith in Christ, we are justified by God, accepted by Him, and saved. This is what it means for the principle of the law to be abolished in Christ under the dispensation of grace.

Although the principle of the law has been abolished, the commandments of the law have not been annulled. Instead, the standard of these commandments has been uplifted. Thus, the commandments, related to the moral standards, have not been abolished; they will remain for eternity. Even for eternity we should not worship an idol, murder, steal, or lie. In His heavenly kingdom the King has uplifted the standard of the law in two ways: by complementing the lower laws and by changing the lower laws into higher laws. In this way the morality in the commandments of the law has been uplifted to a higher standard.

The kingly Savior Himself kept all the commandments of the law when He was on earth. Then He went to the cross to die for us. Through His substitutionary death, He fulfilled the law on the negative side. Furthermore, through His substitutionary death, He released His resurrection life into us, and we now have this resurrection life in our spirit. Because we are able to live by this resurrection life, we have the strength, ability, and capacity to have the highest standard of morality. As we walk according to the spirit (Rom. 8:4), we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, fulfilling even more than the law requires. Therefore, we do not abolish the law; rather, we fulfill it in the highest way.

The third aspect of the law is the rituals of the law. For example, offering sacrifices and keeping the Sabbath are outward rituals of the law. These rituals were also terminated because they were part of the old dispensation of shadows, figures, and types, all of which have been fulfilled by Christ as the reality. We are no longer obligated to observe the rituals of the law. Therefore, the principle of the law and the rituals of the law have been terminated, but the commandments of the law, which require a high moral standard, have not been terminated. Rather, these commandments have been uplifted. By means of Christ as the resurrection life in our spirit, we can fulfill the standard of morality required by the higher law of the kingdom of the heavens.

The principle of the law has been abolished, but the commandments of the law have not been abolished. Just because the principle of the law has been abolished, never think that the commandments of the law have also been abolished and that there is no need to honor our parents or to refrain from stealing. No, instead of being abolished, the commandments of the law have been uplifted. Although our contact with God is not based upon the principle of the law, we must still observe the uplifted commandments of the law.

Although the commandments of God have not been abolished, one of these commandments, the law about keeping the Sabbath, is not related to morality. Rather, it is a ritual law. A ritual is a form, a shadow, that we need no longer observe today. For example, we do not need to offer animal sacrifices, do we? Likewise, we no longer need to keep the Sabbath. In the Old Testament, the age of shadows, there was the need for the sacrifices, the feasts, and the keeping of the Sabbath. But today is an age of reality. Our sacrifice is not a lamb or a goat; it is Christ, the reality of all the Old Testament sacrifices. In like manner, our rest is not a particular day; it also is Christ. Because Christ, the reality, is here, all the shadows are over. Because the commandment to keep the Sabbath is a ritual commandment, not a moral commandment, we are not obligated to keep it today. This commandment is not related to morality, but to the shadow, the form, which is now over.


Gods dealings with Abraham were based upon Gods promise. God did not give Abraham the commandments of the law; He gave him only the promise. Thus, God dealt with him according to His promise. The promise given by God to Abraham became the principle according to which God dealt with him. Later, God gave the law to the children of Israel through Moses. The law given on Mount Sinai thus became the principle according to which God dealt with the children of Israel. In this way the law became the principle for Gods dealings with His people in the Old Testament. Now in the New Testament God deals with the believers according to faith, no longer according to the law. This is fully developed in the books of Romans and Galatians. If you read these books, you will see that God deals with the believers in Christ not according to the law, but according to faith. In Old Testament times God accepted people according to the law. If anyone wanted to be accepted by God, he had to meet the standard of the law. But today God accepts us, not according to the law, but according to whether or not we believe in Christ. Thus, Gods acceptance of us today is based on faith.

The fact that God no longer deals with us, the believers, according to the principle of the law does not mean that the commandments of the old law have been abolished. For instance, the first two commandments of the old law were concerned with not having other gods and with not making images. To say that the principle of the law has been abolished does not mean that these commandments have been abolished. Rather, according to the New Testament, these commandments are emphasized, strengthened, and uplifted. In the Old Testament we were told not to make a physical image, but in the New Testament we are told that even our covetousness is a form of idolatry (Col. 3:5). Greediness is an idol. By this we see the uplifting of the commandment regarding idolatry. Yes, the principle of the law has been abolished, but not the commandments of the law. The commandment about honoring our parents has never been abolished. In the New Testament this commandment is also repeated, strengthened, and uplifted. We must honor our parents much more today than the children of Israel did in the past.

We have seen that the Lord Jesus also uplifted the commandments regarding murder and adultery. Because the Old Testament commandments regarding murder and adultery were not adequate, the Lord complemented them. The old commandment concerning murder did not cover the matters of hatred or anger. Thus, the Lord complemented the old law concerning murder by saying that anyone who was angry with his brother would be liable to judgment. He also complemented the commandment concerning adultery by saying that anyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her in his heart. By these examples we see that the moral laws have never been abolished; rather, they have been uplifted. All of the ten commandments have been repeated and uplifted in the New Testament except the fourth commandment, the commandment to keep the Sabbath. This commandment is over because it is not related to morality. Instead, it is a ritual commandment.

 

[k4c]

THREE ASPECTS OF THE LAW

In order to understand this matter of the law, we must know the three aspects of the law: the principle of the law, the commandments of the law, and the rituals of the law. If you do not differentiate between these three things, you will never have a proper understanding of the law. As we have seen, the principle of the law is over. Today, in the dispensation of grace, God does not deal with us according to the principle of the law; rather, He deals with us according to the principle of faith. Whether or not we shall be justified, saved, and accepted by God depends on the principle of faith, not the principle of the law. As long as we have faith in Christ, we are justified by God, accepted by Him, and saved. This is what it means for the principle of the law to be abolished in Christ under the dispensation of grace.

Although the principle of the law has been abolished, the commandments of the law have not been annulled. Instead, the standard of these commandments has been uplifted. Thus, the commandments, related to the moral standards, have not been abolished; they will remain for eternity. Even for eternity we should not worship an idol, murder, steal, or lie. In His heavenly kingdom the King has uplifted the standard of the law in two ways: by complementing the lower laws and by changing the lower laws into higher laws. In this way the morality in the commandments of the law has been uplifted to a higher standard.

The kingly Savior Himself kept all the commandments of the law when He was on earth. Then He went to the cross to die for us. Through His substitutionary death, He fulfilled the law on the negative side. Furthermore, through His substitutionary death, He released His resurrection life into us, and we now have this resurrection life in our spirit. Because we are able to live by this resurrection life, we have the strength, ability, and capacity to have the highest standard of morality. As we walk according to the spirit (Rom. 8:4), we fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, fulfilling even more than the law requires. Therefore, we do not abolish the law; rather, we fulfill it in the highest way.

The third aspect of the law is the rituals of the law. For example, offering sacrifices and keeping the Sabbath are outward rituals of the law. These rituals were also terminated because they were part of the old dispensation of shadows, figures, and types, all of which have been fulfilled by Christ as the reality. We are no longer obligated to observe the rituals of the law. Therefore, the principle of the law and the rituals of the law have been terminated, but the commandments of the law, which require a high moral standard, have not been terminated. Rather, these commandments have been uplifted. By means of Christ as the resurrection life in our spirit, we can fulfill the standard of morality required by the higher law of the kingdom of the heavens.

The principle of the law has been abolished, but the commandments of the law have not been abolished. Just because the principle of the law has been abolished, never think that the commandments of the law have also been abolished and that there is no need to honor our parents or to refrain from stealing. No, instead of being abolished, the commandments of the law have been uplifted. Although our contact with God is not based upon the principle of the law, we must still observe the uplifted commandments of the law.

Although the commandments of God have not been abolished, one of these commandments, the law about keeping the Sabbath, is not related to morality. Rather, it is a ritual law. A ritual is a form, a shadow, that we need no longer observe today. For example, we do not need to offer animal sacrifices, do we? Likewise, we no longer need to keep the Sabbath. In the Old Testament, the age of shadows, there was the need for the sacrifices, the feasts, and the keeping of the Sabbath. But today is an age of reality. Our sacrifice is not a lamb or a goat; it is Christ, the reality of all the Old Testament sacrifices. In like manner, our rest is not a particular day; it also is Christ. Because Christ, the reality, is here, all the shadows are over. Because the commandment to keep the Sabbath is a ritual commandment, not a moral commandment, we are not obligated to keep it today. This commandment is not related to morality, but to the shadow, the form, which is now over.


Gods dealings with Abraham were based upon Gods promise. God did not give Abraham the commandments of the law; He gave him only the promise. Thus, God dealt with him according to His promise. The promise given by God to Abraham became the principle according to which God dealt with him. Later, God gave the law to the children of Israel through Moses. The law given on Mount Sinai thus became the principle according to which God dealt with the children of Israel. In this way the law became the principle for Gods dealings with His people in the Old Testament. Now in the New Testament God deals with the believers according to faith, no longer according to the law. This is fully developed in the books of Romans and Galatians. If you read these books, you will see that God deals with the believers in Christ not according to the law, but according to faith. In Old Testament times God accepted people according to the law. If anyone wanted to be accepted by God, he had to meet the standard of the law. But today God accepts us, not according to the law, but according to whether or not we believe in Christ. Thus, Gods acceptance of us today is based on faith.

The fact that God no longer deals with us, the believers, according to the principle of the law does not mean that the commandments of the old law have been abolished. For instance, the first two commandments of the old law were concerned with not having other gods and with not making images. To say that the principle of the law has been abolished does not mean that these commandments have been abolished. Rather, according to the New Testament, these commandments are emphasized, strengthened, and uplifted. In the Old Testament we were told not to make a physical image, but in the New Testament we are told that even our covetousness is a form of idolatry (Col. 3:5). Greediness is an idol. By this we see the uplifting of the commandment regarding idolatry. Yes, the principle of the law has been abolished, but not the commandments of the law. The commandment about honoring our parents has never been abolished. In the New Testament this commandment is also repeated, strengthened, and uplifted. We must honor our parents much more today than the children of Israel did in the past.

We have seen that the Lord Jesus also uplifted the commandments regarding murder and adultery. Because the Old Testament commandments regarding murder and adultery were not adequate, the Lord complemented them. The old commandment concerning murder did not cover the matters of hatred or anger. Thus, the Lord complemented the old law concerning murder by saying that anyone who was angry with his brother would be liable to judgment. He also complemented the commandment concerning adultery by saying that anyone who looks at a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her in his heart. By these examples we see that the moral laws have never been abolished; rather, they have been uplifted. All of the ten commandments have been repeated and uplifted in the New Testament except the fourth commandment, the commandment to keep the Sabbath. This commandment is over because it is not related to morality. Instead, it is a ritual commandment.

Hi Pehkay,

The Ten Commandments are a unit of ten, in other words, if you break one, you've broken them all.

James 2:10-11 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery,'' also said, "Do not murder.'' Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

The logic of this verse tells us that if break the seventh commadment we have also broken the ninth commandment. If we break the forth commandment we have also broken the seventh commandment because they are a unit of ten. They are like a chain of ten links, if you break one link, the chain is broken.

If you truly seek to know the will of God and read the Bible with the eyes of God you will begin to see that Jesus taught many, many times regarding the fourth commandment and never once did He say it was done away with. What you do find in Jesus' teachings regarding the fourth commandment is Him removing all the man made rules that burdened down the true meaning of the Sabbath.

We find Jesus saying things such as, He is Lord of the Sabbath. We find Him telling us how the Sabbath was made for man. These are not words that do away with the Sabbath, but rather, they confirm, acknowledge and uphold the Sabbath.

Listen to how Jesus was concerned about the Sabbath 40 years after His death and resurrection.

Matthew 24:17-21 "Let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

We even see Jesus' followers continuing to keep the fourth commandment even after Jesus' death.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

If Jesus, during His three years of teaching and preaching, changed or did away with the fourth commandment they would have known.

Paul gathered with the Corinthian church, which included Jews and Gentiles, every Sabbath.

Acts 18:1-4 After these things Paul departed from Athens and went to Corinth. And he found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to depart from Rome); and he came to them. So, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them and worked; for by occupation they were tentmakers. And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Paul gathered with Jews and Gentiles, which made up the Corinthian church, every Sabbath for a year and half until he left for his next journey.

Acts 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

The Gentiles even begged Paul to teach them next Sabbath.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Why not the next day, which would have been Sunday?

Jesus taught much about the Sabbath in the New Testament and not one of His teachings tell us to do away with fourth commandment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The question isn't whether the Sabbath is done away with. The question is how does one 'keep' the new covenant Sabbath. Jesus isn't very clear on new rituals. It is said that we are to 'remember' the Sabbath and keep it holy. What does that mean? And although we do regard it as 'holy' time what are we supposed to do on that day? I believe that we are to rest as God rested: from all work. This is so plain to see. What the world needs more than anything else is rest from all of the destructive activities that we do every day. In other words we need an escape from our materialistic lives, at least for one day each week. If we do this faithfully maybe the light will go on eventually.

But I also believe that if you ask enough Christians you will have another list of do's and don't's regarding what to do on this day. And they will resemble the 'traditions of the elders' that Christ condemned.

owg

 

[pehkay]

k4c,

Just that, typically, most people (Jews or God-seekers) gathered on the Sabbath day. If you want an audience to speak to, they would be the best.

Another point is, Paul, Peter, etc has a STRONG background in Judaism. This frustrates them to turn from the old dispensation to the new dispensation in the New Testament.

The Lord broke the Sabbath in Marks.

In Mark 2:25-26 we see the Lord’s reply to the Pharisees: “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and was hungry, he and those with him? How he entered into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the presence, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he gave also to those who were with him?” The Pharisees said that it was not lawful for the Lord’s disciples to pick the ears in the grainfields and eat. The Pharisees condemned them for acting contrary to Scripture. But the Lord asked them, “Have you not read?” He pointed out to them another aspect of the truth in the Scriptures that justified Him and His disciples. This condemned the Pharisees for lacking adequate knowledge of the Scriptures.

The Lord’s answer in these verses indicates that He must have had an excellent way of studying the Bible. Here the Lord seemed to be telling the Pharisees, “Have you never read what David did? You religionists respect the Bible to the uttermost. Have you not read how David entered into the house of God, ate the bread of the presence, and also gave it to those who were with him? Don’t you know that David led his followers to do this? Would you say that he misled them in this matter?” How excellent is the Lord’s way of studying the Bible! We all need to learn of Him.

In the eyes of the Jews, the Lord was unlearned. They marveled and said concerning Him, “How does this man know letters, having never learned?” (John 7:15). This One, who apparently was unlearned in the Scriptures, questioned the scribes, ancient scholars of the Bible, concerning their knowledge of the Scriptures. Although they were regarded as Bible scholars, they knew the Scriptures only in a superficial way and in the way of doctrine in dead letters. The Lord exposed their inadequate knowledge of the Scriptures when He asked them if they had never read what David did when he and those with him were in need and were hungry.

The Lord’s word to the Pharisees is very wise and rich in its implications. The Lord’s word here implies that He is the real David. In the ancient time, David and his followers, when rejected, entered into the house of God and ate the showbread, seemingly breaking the Levitical law. Now the real David and His followers were also rejected and took action to eat, seemingly against the sabbatical regulation. Just as David and his followers were not held guilty, neither should Christ and His disciples be condemned.

Furthermore, the Lord’s word here implies a dispensational change from the priesthood to the kingship. In the ancient time, the coming of David changed the dispensation from the age of the priests to the age of the kings, to the age in which the kings were above the priests. In the age of the priests, the leader of the people should listen to the priest (Num. 27:21-22). But in the age of the kings, the priest should submit to the king (1 Sam. 2:35-36). Hence, what King David with his followers did was not illegal. Now by the coming of Christ the dispensation was also changed, this time from the age of the law to the age of grace, the age in which Christ is above the law. Whatever He does is right.
We have seen that the Lord’s word to the Pharisees implies that He is the real David. Matthew the tax collector was one of the followers of this David, the One who was fighting for God’s kingdom. When David led his company to the house of God, He was fighting for the kingdom. Likewise, as the real David, Christ and His followers were also fighting for the coming of the kingdom. Moreover, with the coming of the Lord there was a change of dispensation.
In 2:27 the Lord went on to say to the Pharisees, “The Sabbath came into being for man’s sake, and not man for the Sabbath’s sake.” Man was not created for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was ordained for man so that man might enjoy it with God (Gen. 2:2-3).

Lord of the Sabbath

In verse 28 we have a strong display of who the Lord is: “So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” This indicates the Slave-Savior’s deity in His humanity. He, the Son of Man, was the very God who ordained the Sabbath, and He had the right to change what He had ordained concerning the Sabbath. As the Lord of the Sabbath, He had the right to change the regulations concerning the Sabbath.
The Lord Jesus indicated to the condemning Pharisees that He was the real David, the King of the coming kingdom of God, and also the Lord of the Sabbath. Therefore, He could do whatever He liked on the Sabbath, and whatever He did was justified by who He is. He was above all rituals and regulations. Because He was present, no one should pay any attention to rituals and regulations.

I would call your attention to the word “even” in 2:28. Here the Lord says that the Son of Man is the Lord even of the Sabbath. His use of the word “even” here implies that He is not merely the Lord of one thing, but the Lord of everything, including the Sabbath.

The Lord’s word implies and indicates that He is the almighty God, the very One who ordained the Sabbath in Genesis 2. As the One who had the authority to ordain the Sabbath, He also has the right to change it. Therefore, the Lord could have said to the Pharisees, “Why do you trouble Me? I am the Lord who ordained the Sabbath, and I have the full position and right to change it. Whether I ordain the Sabbath or change it, I do it for the sake of man. The Sabbath came into being for man’s sake; man did not come into being for the sake of the Sabbath. You Pharisees would even let people die by the way you keep the Sabbath. But on the Sabbath I care for feeding My followers. In Genesis 2 I ordained the Sabbath because I wanted man to have rest. Therefore, the Sabbath came into being for the sake of man. But now that I am here, I want to cancel the Sabbath in order to feed My followers. As the Lord of the Sabbath, I certainly have the right to do this.”

 

[k4c]

k4c,

Just that, typically, most people (Jews or God-seekers) gathered on the Sabbath day. If you want an audience to speak to, they would be the best.

Another point is, Paul, Peter, etc has a STRONG background in Judaism. This frustrates them to turn from the old dispensation to the new dispensation in the New Testament.

The Lord broke the Sabbath in Marks.

In Mark 2:25-26 we see the Lord’s reply to the Pharisees: “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and was hungry, he and those with him? How he entered into the house of God when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the presence, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he gave also to those who were with him?” The Pharisees said that it was not lawful for the Lord’s disciples to pick the ears in the grainfields and eat. The Pharisees condemned them for acting contrary to Scripture. But the Lord asked them, “Have you not read?” He pointed out to them another aspect of the truth in the Scriptures that justified Him and His disciples. This condemned the Pharisees for lacking adequate knowledge of the Scriptures.

The Lord’s answer in these verses indicates that He must have had an excellent way of studying the Bible. Here the Lord seemed to be telling the Pharisees, “Have you never read what David did? You religionists respect the Bible to the uttermost. Have you not read how David entered into the house of God, ate the bread of the presence, and also gave it to those who were with him? Don’t you know that David led his followers to do this? Would you say that he misled them in this matter?” How excellent is the Lord’s way of studying the Bible! We all need to learn of Him.

In the eyes of the Jews, the Lord was unlearned. They marveled and said concerning Him, “How does this man know letters, having never learned?” (John 7:15). This One, who apparently was unlearned in the Scriptures, questioned the scribes, ancient scholars of the Bible, concerning their knowledge of the Scriptures. Although they were regarded as Bible scholars, they knew the Scriptures only in a superficial way and in the way of doctrine in dead letters. The Lord exposed their inadequate knowledge of the Scriptures when He asked them if they had never read what David did when he and those with him were in need and were hungry.

The Lord’s word to the Pharisees is very wise and rich in its implications. The Lord’s word here implies that He is the real David. In the ancient time, David and his followers, when rejected, entered into the house of God and ate the showbread, seemingly breaking the Levitical law. Now the real David and His followers were also rejected and took action to eat, seemingly against the sabbatical regulation. Just as David and his followers were not held guilty, neither should Christ and His disciples be condemned.

Furthermore, the Lord’s word here implies a dispensational change from the priesthood to the kingship. In the ancient time, the coming of David changed the dispensation from the age of the priests to the age of the kings, to the age in which the kings were above the priests. In the age of the priests, the leader of the people should listen to the priest (Num. 27:21-22). But in the age of the kings, the priest should submit to the king (1 Sam. 2:35-36). Hence, what King David with his followers did was not illegal. Now by the coming of Christ the dispensation was also changed, this time from the age of the law to the age of grace, the age in which Christ is above the law. Whatever He does is right.
We have seen that the Lord’s word to the Pharisees implies that He is the real David. Matthew the tax collector was one of the followers of this David, the One who was fighting for God’s kingdom. When David led his company to the house of God, He was fighting for the kingdom. Likewise, as the real David, Christ and His followers were also fighting for the coming of the kingdom. Moreover, with the coming of the Lord there was a change of dispensation.
In 2:27 the Lord went on to say to the Pharisees, “The Sabbath came into being for man’s sake, and not man for the Sabbath’s sake.” Man was not created for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was ordained for man so that man might enjoy it with God (Gen. 2:2-3).

Lord of the Sabbath

In verse 28 we have a strong display of who the Lord is: “So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” This indicates the Slave-Savior’s deity in His humanity. He, the Son of Man, was the very God who ordained the Sabbath, and He had the right to change what He had ordained concerning the Sabbath. As the Lord of the Sabbath, He had the right to change the regulations concerning the Sabbath.
The Lord Jesus indicated to the condemning Pharisees that He was the real David, the King of the coming kingdom of God, and also the Lord of the Sabbath. Therefore, He could do whatever He liked on the Sabbath, and whatever He did was justified by who He is. He was above all rituals and regulations. Because He was present, no one should pay any attention to rituals and regulations.

I would call your attention to the word “even” in 2:28. Here the Lord says that the Son of Man is the Lord even of the Sabbath. His use of the word “even” here implies that He is not merely the Lord of one thing, but the Lord of everything, including the Sabbath.

The Lord’s word implies and indicates that He is the almighty God, the very One who ordained the Sabbath in Genesis 2. As the One who had the authority to ordain the Sabbath, He also has the right to change it. Therefore, the Lord could have said to the Pharisees, “Why do you trouble Me? I am the Lord who ordained the Sabbath, and I have the full position and right to change it. Whether I ordain the Sabbath or change it, I do it for the sake of man. The Sabbath came into being for man’s sake; man did not come into being for the sake of the Sabbath. You Pharisees would even let people die by the way you keep the Sabbath. But on the Sabbath I care for feeding My followers. In Genesis 2 I ordained the Sabbath because I wanted man to have rest. Therefore, the Sabbath came into being for the sake of man. But now that I am here, I want to cancel the Sabbath in order to feed My followers. As the Lord of the Sabbath, I certainly have the right to do this.”

The Lord broke the Sabbath according to the rules of the Pharasees, not God's rules.

Mark 3:4 And He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?'' But they kept silent.

It has always been right to do good on the Sabbath day if not, than Jesus would not be without sin.

All that Jesus taught regarding the Sabbath was to lift all the added burdens that religious man placed on the Sabbath that God did not intend.

 

[pehkay]

Re: The Lord broke the Sabbath according to the rules of the Pharasees, not God's rules.

Erm .. that is not accurate. According to Exodus 25:1—31:11, it shows the revelation of God to Moses concerning all the matters of the tabernacle and His service. Immediately following this is God’s further word on the Sabbath. Since God’s word on the Sabbath was written as the conclusion of all the revelations in the preceding chapters, it must surely be significant. In Genesis 1, after all things had been created in six days, there was the Sabbath on the seventh day. In the same way, after all things were revealed to Moses concerning the Lord’s work and the services of the tabernacle, the Lord reminded the people of Israel to keep the Sabbath. After all the divine work is the Sabbath.

Actually Mark 3:4 implied that the Slave-Savior was the Emancipator, who set the suffering one free from the bondage of religious ritual.

Hmm ... I guess more explanation is needed. You would need some revelation to see this ...

The result of God’s work, especially in redemption, is Christ Himself. Christ is the Sabbath, and the Sabbath day typifies Christ. Therefore, when the Lord came in the flesh, He abolished the old Sabbath day (Matt. 12:1-12). God can only rest and be refreshed in Christ, with Christ, and with the redeemed ones. Without us to enjoy His rest, to be refreshed together with God, God cannot rest and be refreshed. The parable in Luke 15:11-32 indicates that without the prodigal son returning home, the father could not rest at his table to enjoy the feast. The father’s table in Luke 15 is the Sabbath to the father and to the son. But without the son, the father could not rest and enjoy the table. That table is Christ Himself, for upon that table was the slain, fattened calf (v. 23), signifying the rich Christ (Eph. 3:8) killed on the cross for the believers’ enjoyment. The Sabbath is Christ as the result of the divine work, especially in redemption. God enjoys resting and being refreshed in Christ and with Christ with all the redeemed ones. We, as the redeemed ones, as the spiritual Israel (Gal. 6:16), have to realize that everything has been accomplished by God. Nothing was done by us. We must now enter into God’s accomplishment and refresh ourselves with God.

If we attempt to do what God has accomplished, we will bring in death. Exodus 31:15 says, “Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death.” The Sabbath is the result of God’s work. You must keep your hand off of this work. Stop yourself. Do not do anything; simply appreciate, adore, praise, and receive Christ as your Sabbath. Enjoy Christ and rest and refresh yourself with God, in Christ and with Christ, in His all-inclusive work. Then God will be pleased with you. Otherwise, you will bring in death. Death means that you are cut off from God as your portion and from the enjoyment of what God has done.

THE LORD’S DAY

We have pointed out that the principle of the Sabbath is that God works first, then enjoys what He has done, whereas man first enjoys what God is and what God has accomplished, and then he is enabled to work. It is not that we work first and then have the enjoyment, but that we enjoy first and then work. This is the principle of grace—to receive salvation first and then work with and by this salvation.
Certain Christians, according to their natural concept, insist on keeping the Old Testament Sabbath, the seventh day. Actually, to keep the Sabbath according to the Old Testament is to observe it from Friday evening to Saturday evening and to abstain even from cooking meals (Exo. 35:2-3). To practice this in the New Testament times is foolish. The significance of keeping the seventh day is that one works first and then has the Sabbath. But we as believers in the New Testament time have the Lord’s Day first, and then we go to work. From a child I understood the Sunday of Christianity to be the seventh day. We called Monday the first day of the week, and Sunday was the seventh day, the “Sabbath.” Later, the Lord pointed out to me that Sunday is not the last day of the seven days. The Lord’s Day is the first day of the seven days. The week in the New Testament begins with the Lord’s Day. The Lord’s Day to us is not a day of pleasure or recreation, but a day of enjoying the Lord and serving Him. Sunday is a pagan name, a name related to idol worship. But to us the first day is the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10) because the Lord resurrected on this day (Matt. 28:1-6). It is not only the first day, but it is also the eighth day. The Lord passed through “one week” to accomplish redemption, and we receive what the Lord has accomplished on the eighth day, the day of resurrection, which is the first day of the week. This means that we began as Christians in the principle of resurrection.

According to the principle of salvation, we first come to enjoy the Lord and what He has accomplished. This is our Sabbath, our rest. At the conclusion of all the revelations concerning the tabernacle and the service, the Sabbath is mentioned. This is a sign to signify that God has taken care of all the work. There is nothing left for man to do. What man is obligated to do is to rest with God and enjoy what God has accomplished. Then after we have enjoyed, we work for God with what we have enjoyed. The grace enables us to serve the Lord.

 

[k4c]

Re: The Lord broke the Sabbath according to the rules of the Pharasees, not God's rules.

Erm .. that is not accurate. According to Exodus 25:1—31:11, it shows the revelation of God to Moses concerning all the matters of the tabernacle and His service. Immediately following this is God’s further word on the Sabbath. Since God’s word on the Sabbath was written as the conclusion of all the revelations in the preceding chapters, it must surely be significant. In Genesis 1, after all things had been created in six days, there was the Sabbath on the seventh day. In the same way, after all things were revealed to Moses concerning the Lord’s work and the services of the tabernacle, the Lord reminded the people of Israel to keep the Sabbath. After all the divine work is the Sabbath.

Actually Mark 3:4 implied that the Slave-Savior was the Emancipator, who set the suffering one free from the bondage of religious ritual.

Hmm ... I guess more explanation is needed. You would need some revelation to see this ...

The result of God’s work, especially in redemption, is Christ Himself. Christ is the Sabbath, and the Sabbath day typifies Christ. Therefore, when the Lord came in the flesh, He abolished the old Sabbath day (Matt. 12:1-12). God can only rest and be refreshed in Christ, with Christ, and with the redeemed ones. Without us to enjoy His rest, to be refreshed together with God, God cannot rest and be refreshed. The parable in Luke 15:11-32 indicates that without the prodigal son returning home, the father could not rest at his table to enjoy the feast. The father’s table in Luke 15 is the Sabbath to the father and to the son. But without the son, the father could not rest and enjoy the table. That table is Christ Himself, for upon that table was the slain, fattened calf (v. 23), signifying the rich Christ (Eph. 3:8) killed on the cross for the believers’ enjoyment. The Sabbath is Christ as the result of the divine work, especially in redemption. God enjoys resting and being refreshed in Christ and with Christ with all the redeemed ones. We, as the redeemed ones, as the spiritual Israel (Gal. 6:16), have to realize that everything has been accomplished by God. Nothing was done by us. We must now enter into God’s accomplishment and refresh ourselves with God.

If we attempt to do what God has accomplished, we will bring in death. Exodus 31:15 says, “Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death.” The Sabbath is the result of God’s work. You must keep your hand off of this work. Stop yourself. Do not do anything; simply appreciate, adore, praise, and receive Christ as your Sabbath. Enjoy Christ and rest and refresh yourself with God, in Christ and with Christ, in His all-inclusive work. Then God will be pleased with you. Otherwise, you will bring in death. Death means that you are cut off from God as your portion and from the enjoyment of what God has done.

THE LORD’S DAY

We have pointed out that the principle of the Sabbath is that God works first, then enjoys what He has done, whereas man first enjoys what God is and what God has accomplished, and then he is enabled to work. It is not that we work first and then have the enjoyment, but that we enjoy first and then work. This is the principle of grace—to receive salvation first and then work with and by this salvation.
Certain Christians, according to their natural concept, insist on keeping the Old Testament Sabbath, the seventh day. Actually, to keep the Sabbath according to the Old Testament is to observe it from Friday evening to Saturday evening and to abstain even from cooking meals (Exo. 35:2-3). To practice this in the New Testament times is foolish. The significance of keeping the seventh day is that one works first and then has the Sabbath. But we as believers in the New Testament time have the Lord’s Day first, and then we go to work. From a child I understood the Sunday of Christianity to be the seventh day. We called Monday the first day of the week, and Sunday was the seventh day, the “Sabbath.” Later, the Lord pointed out to me that Sunday is not the last day of the seven days. The Lord’s Day is the first day of the seven days. The week in the New Testament begins with the Lord’s Day. The Lord’s Day to us is not a day of pleasure or recreation, but a day of enjoying the Lord and serving Him. Sunday is a pagan name, a name related to idol worship. But to us the first day is the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10) because the Lord resurrected on this day (Matt. 28:1-6). It is not only the first day, but it is also the eighth day. The Lord passed through “one week” to accomplish redemption, and we receive what the Lord has accomplished on the eighth day, the day of resurrection, which is the first day of the week. This means that we began as Christians in the principle of resurrection.

According to the principle of salvation, we first come to enjoy the Lord and what He has accomplished. This is our Sabbath, our rest. At the conclusion of all the revelations concerning the tabernacle and the service, the Sabbath is mentioned. This is a sign to signify that God has taken care of all the work. There is nothing left for man to do. What man is obligated to do is to rest with God and enjoy what God has accomplished. Then after we have enjoyed, we work for God with what we have enjoyed. The grace enables us to serve the Lord.

I agree that there is a rest in Christ that frees us from trying to earn or obtain righteousness or salavtion but that does not negate the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments point out the foundation of sin and will always point out sin. Once sin is revealed we see our need for a Savior. Once we come to Christ He, by God's grace, cleanses us from all our past sin but this does not do away with the law for daily living.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

We are free in Christ from the guilt and condemnation but not free to break the law.

We do not keep the law to earn salvation, but rather, keeping the law is a sign of salvation and love for God and neighbor.

Regarding Sabbath observance, caring for the needs of man and animal is not a violation of the Sabbath. This is the point that Jesus was making, not that the Sabbath was done away with. Doing God's work on the Sabbath is not sin either, as Jesus stated. These are the principles Jesus was teaching. He was not doing away with the day that God has blessed and sanctified even before sin was in the world. The Sabbath is a joy and a blessing for God's people there is no need to do away with it. It's carnal man that has the problem with God's law, not the man born of the Spirit.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The ten commandments show the pattern of salvation. As God declares "the end from the beginning" we should view the law as God does to better understand it. The "first and great commandment" is really the end result of God's grace, not the beginning.

The last commandment shows the beginning sinful condition of man. Following are the acts that will be committed because of those inordinate desires resulting often in death. Then comes the "commandment of promise", of long life, a metaphor for eternal life. Then comes the introduction to the savior and future husband, in whom one can rest from the former sinful life. Next comes the requirements of faithfulness to Christ as Husband. Finally the marriage vows of the first commandment.

The commandments chart a journey from sinful carnality to our marriage to Christ.

owg

 

[fli]

Col. 2:16 - 17 " So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself."

We don't have to celebrate the sabbath at all. If we choose to celebrate the Sabbath it is strictly for our own pleasure or convenience. If you will notice Paul did not say anything about the Ten Commandments being a shadow of Christ. He just said the Sabbath , of those items in the Ten Commandments, was a shadow. So since it was just a shadow and since Jesus has came the sabbath as it pretains to the Law is out.

 

[k4c]

Col. 2:16 - 17 " So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself."

We don't have to celebrate the sabbath at all. If we choose to celebrate the Sabbath it is strictly for our own pleasure or convenience. If you will notice Paul did not say anything about the Ten Commandments being a shadow of Christ. He just said the Sabbath , of those items in the Ten Commandments, was a shadow. So since it was just a shadow and since Jesus has came the sabbath as it pretains to the Law is out.

There are many sabbath shadows throughout the old testament of which the fourth commandment is never called a shadow. The sabbath shadows that Paul is referring to are the shadows that point to the life and work of Christ, not the fourth commandment. If the Ten Commandments are just a shadow then I can commit adultery, lie, steal and have other gods. But I'm sure you would say no way. The Ten Commandments are a unit of ten, in other words, if you break one, you've broken them all. You can't say the fourth commandment is a shodow so we don't have to keep the seventh day holy and then turn around and say but we have to keep the other nine.

The only people who have a problem with the commandments are those who are carnal.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

 

[Apollos1]

A few thoughts about the OLD covenant and the sabbath day it contained…

There was no Sabbath given in Genesis. Although God hallowed and sanctified the SEVENTH day, no sabbath (or rest) was given to any man at that time. (And sabbath does not mean “seventh” – it means “rest”.) It would be over 2,000 years later before God would make known a sabbath for man in Exodus 16. There is no evidence in all of Genesis’ history to indicate that man had or observed a Sabbath of any design - cf. Nehemiah 9:14.

Where was the Sabbath given? - At “Sinai” - Exodus 16, Exodus 20:8.
WHO was the Sabbath given to? - Israel - Exodus 16:29, 31:16,31.
WHY was the Sabbath given? Because Israel had no rest in Egypt and God delivered them out of the land - Deut. 5:15
What was the Sabbath?– It was a SIGN between God and Israel - Exodus 20:12,20, 31:16,31, Deut. 5:15.

The Old Covenant was made with Israel – Deut. 5:2-4. Is was not a universal covenant and Gentiles never were under it.

Seeing why the Sabbath was given, to whom it was given, and what it means, WHY would anyone today, other than perhaps a Jew, think he/she is required to keep or observe any “sabbath” today?

Christians today are under a new and different covenant made upon better promises. Chrsitians do not have and never have had a “sabbath” day – just what would we be resting from? Christians by example observe the first day of the week – Sunday – as the day for their religious gatherings, offerings, Lord’s supper, and worship.

 

[fli]

Hi Apollos1,
I appreciate your response. As you know I agrees with your conclusion. I have no idea about the rest. I'm not saying its wrong. I'm just not a deep spiritual thinker as you can see from my posts. My Counselor only leads me in the right direction. When I ask why He says "because I say so." I suppose if it was important to my salvation or growth to know why He would tell me.

Do you know how I would go about getting rid of my reputation rating or setting it at the lowest level. I'm of the mind that I don't want any newcomer to be influenced by it to believe my posts based on a rep. If what I say is true then it will stand on its own merit.

 

[Hismessenger]

Christ is the new covenant sabbath which we are to keep eternally, not on a day to day basis.

hismessenger

 

[cyberlizard]

i find it utterly hilarious that Jesus had two different messages.

His first message was BC (before the cross) where the law was in effect, and where he said that the authority of the law would not pass away until everything was restored (we certainly are not there yet, cause not everything is, as yet, under his feet).

His second message was AC (after the cross), where apparently the law had come to an end, and no longer had any requirement of the believer (but still not everything was subjected to him).

Now this presents also two dilemma's. The first is to do with God, who does not change, and the second is to do with the OT's definition of a false prophet.

Now the OT prophecies are explicit when describing Messiah that he would uphold Torah and ensure that those who followed him kept it. In respect to Torah, the first covenant that was given, was Torah with 'normal' people, who were powerless to keep it. The actual terms of the covenant were not at fault, but the one of the involved parties was. The second covenant (the new covenant) is described in the OT as the same Torah (as the first) being written on our hearts, but this time, the parties are God and the transformed believers. God placing His spirit in us to give us the power to say no to ungodliness, which is lawlessness which is breach of Torah.

Torah is NOT MEANT TO SAVE but it is meant to guide, as the NT says, be holy as I am holy, go look up the context of what he means to live a holy life (Lev. 11 & 19). This was Peter's picture of a holy (SEPERATE/CONSECRATED) lifestyle. We are in the world, not of it, and this is how we show we are not of it.

Some people say Sabbath is a Holy Day, that would make it a holiday, so why treat it as a day of thou shalt nots.... it is supposed to be a day of remembrance of the works of creation, the exodus from egypt. In fact the Didache (which was probably written before most books of the NT) appears to imply that believers jew and gentile alike keep this holiday. This is probably the earliest how-to book to early church believers we have.

Steve

p.s. as you can guess I am in favour of Torah Observance, as far is permissible for a gentile. Being grafted into Isra'el by faith (Romans) brings me also within the confines of their covenents.

 

[Hismessenger]

Cyberlizard, you are misinformed on both accounts. When Christ rose from the grave, everything had been restored in the spirit. the law went from the natural to it's fulfillment in Christ. The true ark. When Moses placed the law into the ark, it was symbolic of the law being placed in the risen Christ to it's perfect execution by Him.

Secondly after His resurrection what did he say; All power is given unto me in heaven and earth. All things have been placed under His feet and will remain until the completion of God's plan at which time, Even Christ will be under subjection to the Father. Now our keeping of the law is done by belief in the finished work Of Christ on the cross. He imputes His righteousness to us by our faith and belief. Thus upholding all the prophescies and the law.

hismessenger

 

[stone]

It's not until God writes His law on the heart by the indwelling of His Spirit that they become a bothersome conscience issue.

You totally missed the mark on this. To have the law written on your heart, means that the person that lives in rightousness, does by nature that which is written in the law.