Is the fourth commandment a moral issue?

[k4c]

Should we keep the fourth commandment out of duty or moral obligation?

I would have to say moral obligation.

Why do I say it's a moral obligation when most of theologians say it's not a moral issue?

All morals come from God.

When something is moral it effects the conscience.

Any command of God is a moral issue because He speaks to the conscience of man.

When God told Adam not eat of the tree it was a moral command because when Adam ate of the tree it effected his conscience.

All of the Ten Commandments are a conscience issue but fallen man has snuffed out the voice of God.

Romans 1:18-19 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

It's not until God writes His law on the heart by the indwelling of His Spirit that they become a bothersome conscience issue.

So to me, anything that effects the conscience is a moral issue, which is seen in the commands of God.

What are your thoughts?

 

[reddogs]

k4c,

I moved the thread into the more appropriate Discussion and Debate Sub-forum from the SDA Main forum for further discussions here.

Red

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Keeping the Sabbath gives God first priority on our time. Do we devote the Sabbath day do God, while consigning our earthly concerns to the other six days? Or do we give something else, such as work, first pick on our time and leave God whatever is left over?

 

[freeindeed2]

Keeping the Sabbath gives God first priority on our time. Do we devote the Sabbath day do God, while consigning our earthly concerns to the other six days? Or do we give something else, such as work, first pick on our time and leave God whatever is left over?

Can you illustrate the morality of the Sabbath?

 

[Bourbaki]

Is the fourth commandment a moral issue?

Are the Ten Commandments a moral issue? Did God make a mistake by listing in stone an optional law with nine mandatory Commandments?

 

[freeindeed2]

Are the Ten Commandments a moral issue? Did God make a mistake by listing in stone an optional law with nine mandatory Commandments?

Can you illustrate or even state the MORALLITY of the Sabbath?

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I thought that's what I just did.

 

[Adventtruth]

I thought that's what I just did.

When you where born and grew to the point of
knowing right from wrong as a toddler, did you think you should keep saturday holy?

You began to know and understand it was wrong to lie, to steal, and so forth, but did you think as a child, in what was right and wrong, as you grew, I must keep saturday or, any day holy? Of course not. This is a learned command from without and not from within, not because of morals, but because of a learned obligation.

AT

 

[capnator]

Can you illustrate or even state the MORALLITY of the Sabbath?

Sure... God gave us ten rules. One of which says Remember the sabbath.


Moral =

1. The lesson or principle contained in or taught by a fable, a story, or an event.
2. A concisely expressed precept or general truth; a maxim.
3. morals Rules or habits of conduct, especially of sexual conduct, with reference to standards of right and wrong: a person of loose morals; a decline in the public morals

 

[mva1985]

When you where born and grew to the point of
knowing right from wrong as a toddler, did you think you should keep saturday holy?

You began to know and understand it was wrong to lie, to steal, and so forth, but did you think as a child, in what was right and wrong, as you grew, I must keep saturday or, any day holy? Of course not. This is a learned command from without and not from within, not because of morals, but because of a learned obligation.

AT

Prov. 3:5 - 8

"5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and depart from evil.
8 It will be health to your flesh,
And strength to your bones."

 

[mva1985]

Can you illustrate or even state the MORALLITY of the Sabbath?

Interesting take on the morality of the Sabbath:

"But also, Sabbath is a worldview. By remembering where we have been with (and sometimes without) God, we view the world in a different way. Sabbath will leak into the rest of your week. It’s not only a day set apart; it’s a mindset, a way of looking at the entire world as God’s creation.

And that, to me, is how worship is related to morality. Reverence for God and acts that display that reverence (of which Sabbath is only one) reset your priorities. Worship isn’t only an activity, but a way to structure your existence around something other, something greater than yourself and your schedule. By worshipping, by Sabbath-ing, we are given the tools to join God in his work in the world. We deliberately sit back and give God the space to speak. In Sabbath, we are reminded of these questions: What has God done for us? Where is God in our lives? How will we treat ourselves as extensions of God? How will we treat each other? How will we treat outsiders (and should there be any)? How will we treat the land? How will we look at God’s world? How can we join his work there?"


Full text here:
http://naomirachel.blogspot.com/2007/09/will-we-listen.html

 

[Jimlarmore]

When you where born and grew to the point of
knowing right from wrong as a toddler, did you think you should keep saturday holy?

You began to know and understand it was wrong to lie, to steal, and so forth, but did you think as a child, in what was right and wrong, as you grew, I must keep saturday or, any day holy? Of course not. This is a learned command from without and not from within, not because of morals, but because of a learned obligation.

AT

Your questions belay the truth of the matter. "You were taught" that stealing and lying was wrong. So those things became a moral issue for you of what is right and what is wrong. If you had been "taught" from childhood that keeping the Sabbath was the right thing to do and breaking the Sabbath was the wrong thing to do then Sabbath observance would become a moral issue for you as well. Ask any othodox Jew who has been brought up this way and they will tell you. We never think about the observance of the Sabbath because most of us were not taught it as children. Even children who go to Sunday school every week ( with a few exceptions ) were not taught that Sunday was a day of sacredness and that working on that day was wrong. The Sabbath is just as much a moral issue as the other nine commandments.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

For those curious as to what the dictionary says "moral" is ,,, here it is.

mor·al

/ˈmɔr

əl, ˈmɒr-/
–adjective 1.of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes. 2.expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel. 3.founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations. 4.capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being. 5.conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man. 6.virtuous in sexual matters; chaste. 7.of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Cribstyl]

AT that made sense. Dont expect a straight answer.

I see how they can call it a moral obligation because they teach babies about keeping the sabbath, but to say that sabbath is moral by it's nature is logically unreasonable.

WHY?....every day killing is wrong, killing is logically immoral all the time, but to consider one day of seven as a day of rest, does not makes sense to anyone.
Who can figure working can be considered immoral on one particular day?

Saying that sabbath is moral is not reasonable to people who never heard of it nor do they honor it.
Ishmael was a son of Abraham and the progentor of the Arab nation, the bible is not silent about
when both him and Abraham was circumcized. Why is Sabbathkeeping is not honored by Arabs? Josephus (Ant., I, xii, 2), records that Arab were circumcized at age 13 as Ismael was. Not one word about sabbath.

Why would would God call the sabbath "a sign" if it was not given to prove they worshipped the true Creator who rested on the seventh day?


Sabbath became a ceromonial day for offerings, sacrifices, Holy convacations (gathering to worship)


Lev 23:1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts.
Lev 23:3Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.


IN PEACE AND TRUTH
CRIB

 

[honorthesabbath]

When you where born and grew to the point of
knowing right from wrong as a toddler, did you think you should keep saturday holy?

You began to know and understand it was wrong to lie, to steal, and so forth, but did you think as a child, in what was right and wrong, as you grew, I must keep saturday or, any day holy? Of course not. This is a learned command from without and not from within, not because of morals, but because of a learned obligation.

AT

You only realize that stealing and hurting others is wrong after you get a few swats on your behind for doing so.

If your parents hadn't told you to STOP doing those things--you would have no knowledge that these things were wrong. Why?

Because your sinful nature is ALL ABOUT SELF and not for one minute would that evil mind of yours( all of ours) as an infant or child crucify itself.

 

[Jimlarmore]

AT that made sense. Dont expect a straight answer.

I see how they can call it a moral obligation because they teach babies about keeping the sabbath, but to say that sabbath is moral by it's nature is logically unreasonable.

WHY?....every day killing is wrong, killing is logically immoral all the time, but to consider one day of seven as a day of rest, does not makes sense to anyone.
Who can figure working can be considered immoral on one particular day?

Mainly because God says it is. When you go against the word of God you are being immoral or in other words ,,,,,,WRONG.

Saying that sabbath is moral is reasoning not found in scriptures.

Why would would God call the sabbath "a sign" if it was not given to prove they worshipped the true Creator who rested on the seventh day?

Mainly because it involves special time set aside for holy use to commune with the creator. That my friend is a very tangible "sign" for all to see. When you keep the Sabbath other's notice.

Sabbath became a ceromonial day for offerings, sacrifices, Holy convacations (gathering to worship)


Lev 23:1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts.
Lev 23:3Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

CRIB

Indeed it was but that was not all that it was meant for. It was also to be a delight.

Isa 58:13

13

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Bourbaki]

Are the Ten Commandments a moral issue? Did God make a mistake by listing in stone an optional law with nine mandatory Commandments?

Can you illustrate or even state the MORALLITY of the Sabbath?

Yes. Consider Genesis 2:16-17 and ask yourself if it's moral to disobey God.

And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

 

[Adventtruth]

Prov. 3:5 - 8

"5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and depart from evil.
8 It will be health to your flesh,
And strength to your bones."

Oh yeah! That sums it up!

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

Your questions belay the truth of the matter. "You were taught" that stealing and lying was wrong. So those things became a moral issue for you of what is right and what is wrong. If you had been "taught" from childhood that keeping the Sabbath was the right thing to do and breaking the Sabbath was the wrong thing to do then Sabbath observance would become a moral issue for you as well. Ask any othodox Jew who has been brought up this way and they will tell you. We never think about the observance of the Sabbath because most of us were not taught it as children. Even children who go to Sunday school every week ( with a few exceptions ) were not taught that Sunday was a day of sacredness and that working on that day was wrong. The Sabbath is just as much a moral issue as the other nine commandments.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jim even if a person was not taught this he would still grow to know this is wrong. Sin may have caused that person to ignor his inner understanding of righteousness, but all humans know what is right and wrong. If you deny this truth you deny what God has written in His word concerning the issue. The bible is clear...men suppressed the truth for unrighteousness. The Sabbath is no more moral than a cat taking a swim.

AT

 

[djconklin]

What makes all of the 10C moral is the fact that they are based on the principle of love. The first 4 show that you love God with all your heart, mind and strength, the last 6 show that you love others as yourself.