Champ, your ignorant foot is so far in your mouth you should really just stop at this point.
Of course but why does that require a funeral? It's potentially politicizing a sacred rite.
And clearly, what is best for man, woman, child, baby in utero or not,I'll go way out on a limb and say what's best for a woman's body is probably not to have it dismembered in the womb and scraped into a pulp.
(half of all aborted babies are female)
Politicizing? Where do you get that? Since when is a funeral a political event???
At least I don't get my sense of decorum about grief from some Catholic manualist from the 17th century. I believe in letting humans be humans, and not having to reframe their whole religion around being anti-choice.
This is what the passage says:The way i see it "children" are the substitute for the word "fetus". But if you're correct then God is saying that it if a child is killed the punishment is monetary but if an adult woman is killed the punishment is the death. I do not think this is what the passage that i quoted means.
I don't actually know what this means.At least I don't get my sense of decorum about grief from some Catholic manualist from the 17th century. I believe in letting humans be humans, and not having to reframe their whole religion around being anti-choice.
ubicaritas said: ↑
At least I don't get my sense of decorum about grief from some Catholic manualist from the 17th century. I believe in letting humans be humans, and not having to reframe their whole religion around being anti-choice.
I don't actually know what this means.
If you're a Christian as your label suggests, then you should be striving to frame your belief system around what Scripture teaches. Scripture is our authority, right?
If I wasn't a Christian, I can tell you right now I would not be opposed to abortion on moral grounds.
As a Christian, I have insight, and so do you, into reality. We know that God exists, and that there are absolute, and objective morals that are real because they stem from the immutable and perfect nature and character of God.
We should also agree that Scripturally, God has revealed to us that mankind is unique among all of His creation in that we alone are created in His Image. We alone possess the Imago Dei. There is an inherent moral worth and value to all human beings because we are created in the image of God.
That's what I believe because I believe Scripture. It really is just that simple. Therefore, with that as my foundation, how can I not look upon abortion as immoral? We know when a new human being comes into existence! We know that a new and unique individual, that spends roughly the first 25 years of its life growing, begins at fertilization!
It really is that simple. I think it would be morally wrong for me to decide I no longer wanted to be a father and to suffocate my 9 year old, or my 7 year old, or my 2 year old, or any of the other babies my wife and I may be fostering. I think it would be morally wrong for a mother in the hospital who just gave birth to a baby, to suffocate her newborn because she changed her mind and didn't want to raise the child.
And it would therefore, logically, be just as wrong for the mother of an unborn child to decide they don't want to go through the pregnancy - for any reason - because the baby, regardless of its age, location, or reason for existence, possesses the same moral worth and value as any other human being.
You have yet to give a single, not even one either logically valid, or Scripturally based reason to justify abortion.
You have yet to give a single, not even one either logically valid, or Scripturally based reason to justify abortion.
I don't actually know what this means.
If you're a Christian as your label suggests, then you should be striving to frame your belief system around what Scripture teaches. Scripture is our authority, right?
Considering the Hebrew term for "miscarriage" is not present in the verses, I have to say you are quite mistaken:Inducing a miscarriage through a violent altercation is punished by a fine, not by death, according to your reading of it, Rebel.
That's perfectly consistent with my position that the dominant consideration should be the woman's own body, and not the fetus.
He did no such thing. He simply stated that a friend of his and his wife had a memorial service for a son they lost in utero.When you insist burying embryonic or fetal tissue is somehow appropriate for everybody. Like what the religious right attempted to do in Texas.
The earliest church teaching after the canonical books is the Didache.The ancient and medieval churchmen did not believe this, at least not unanimously . They mostly seemed to go long with Aristotle and recognize that ones humanity developed slowly during pregnancy, the rational soul being present at the time of quickening. Though some did consider any abortion as punishable by the church or state as a kind of murder or killing, but these same types had similar attitudes towards masturbation, perhaps due to a misunderstanding of human biology.
However, this has nothing to do with one being a human being. That is determined at conception given both parents are human beings. 23+23=46 human being begins at conception. The human being life begins it journey of development for the next 20 odd years or so.A zygote doesn't even resemble what we would recognize as human. Neither does an embryo. In fact during certain stages its very similar to the embryos of other species.
When you insist burying embryonic or fetal tissue is somehow appropriate for everybody. Like what the religious right attempted to do in Texas.
I didn't insist on that. I simply mentioned that my friends had a miscarriage and they had a funeral for the baby they lost. They did it because they were grieving for their loss. They didn't do it to make a point of it to anyone else. The point is that the mother didn't see it as just dead fetal tissue that was never alive.
But giving a Christian burial to things that were once merely alive is not exactly a dignified use of a sacred rite. Some people make fun of how some Episcopalians, for instance, perform church funerals for dogs, and perhaps rightly so.
But giving a Christian burial to things that were once merely alive
You're placing a miscarried human being on the same level as a deceased dog? Seriously? How dare you invalidate the feelings of these mothers who have lost a child!? That is pure evil and until you have to deliver and see the face of your dead child, keep your mouth shut as to how they should mourn.Some people make fun of how some Episcopalians, for instance, perform church funerals for dogs, and perhaps rightly so.
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