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Is the Eucharist cannibalism?

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Aaron112

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“a sign is a thing which, over and above the impression it makes on the senses, causes something else to come into the mind as a consequence of itself”
So in Truth , Spirit and Life, are Spirit and Life, Is Truth .

Flesh is flesh, and profits nothing.

If someone desires flesh, (sexually), they are already guilty of adultery, EVEN IF they do not carry through with it, but only think about it in their mind/heart.

If someone eats flesh, even if they do not carry through with it physically, they are guilty.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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The differences coming from your leaning on extra Biblical teachings to come to your conclusions and my reliance on Scripture.
You write that as if reliance on scripture alone is a virtue and reliance on both scripture and extrabiblical sacred tradition is an anti-virtue. Yet history demonstrates that those who say they rely on scripture alone and reject tradition as a source of divine revelation are prone to divisions and fissures in the community leading to many separated communities that show varying degrees of intolerance towards one another. I consciously choose not to be a part of that kind of religion because of its fruit.
 
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The Liturgist

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There's no contradiction if Jesus means the bread symbolizes his flesh and blood sacrificed on the cross.

Indeed, but you didn’t say that in your initial reply to me, but rather used the exact wording we use to describe the Eucharist, and for that matter, as I have repeatedly asserted, our Lord said “This is my body” and “This is my blood”, which contradicts a symbolic interpretation. If he had said “This is a symbol of my body” and “This is a symbol of my blood”, a symbolic interpretation would be indicated.

I think "anamnesis" fits perfectly well with remembrance.

Very well, if you think that, then I am sure you won’t mind explaining to me precisely why Fr. John Behr and other scholars of the New Testament who are fluent in Koine Greek are in error?
 
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Always in His Presence

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In this case, I am not leaning on extra-Biblical positions. The doctrine of the Real Presence is the plain meaning of Scripture.
That is where we disagree.
And I have no objection, as @MarkRohfrietsch can confirm, to Sola Scriptura, properly defined, that is to say, the doctrine taught by Martin Luther, who also taught the doctrine of the Real Presence.
That would be after :
hislegacy said:
The first person who clearly taught the doctrine of transubstantiation, though not using that term, was Paschasius Radbertus (785-865), abbot of the monastery at Corbie, France.
Not one refers to transubstantiation - period
Off topic
word salad to me - nothing on topic
NOT a fact

What Peter is referring to in his Epistle about being partakers of the Divine Nature has zero to do with communion or transubstantiation.


No - I do NOT have to agree and do not. And as shown - there in NOT only one interpretation. I apologize, but either your lack of opposing positions or your ego prevents you from understanding.

off topic and rambling
 
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Always in His Presence

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You write that as if reliance on scripture alone is a virtue and reliance on both scripture and extrabiblical sacred tradition is an anti-virtue.
BINGO! you hit the nail on the head.
pssst.... if you want a lesson in intolerance check out the diatribes posted with any dissenting position from the Roman Catholic Theology.
 
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The Liturgist

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That would be after :
hislegacy said:
The first person who clearly taught the doctrine of transubstantiation, though not using that term, was Paschasius Radbertus (785-865), abbot of the monastery at Corbie, France.

I suppose that would be relevant if either @MarkRohfrietsch or I believed in transubstantiation, but I made it clear in my first reply to you that Lutherans and Orthodox reject the Roman Catholic doctrine, as being overly complex and dependent upon Aristotelian categories; it is a scholastic doctrine and not a Patristic doctrine.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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pssst.... if you want a lesson in intolerance
I need look no further than my circle of friends from Protestant denominations who shunned me when I became a Catholic. That was an excellent example of intolerance. What you offer is folly.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I need look no further than my circle of friends from Protestant denominations who shunned me when I became a Catholic. That was an excellent example of intolerance. What you offer is folly.
ditto - I had the same thing happen with my former Roman Catholic friends when I left the church. Can we not offer each other folly and just keep to a discussion?
 
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The Liturgist

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off topic and rambling

On the contrary, it is directly topical. If you say you believe the humanity and divinity of our Lord are inseparable, then logic requires an admission that the doctrine of the Real Presence in no way implies cannibalism, since there is an obvious difference between eating a mortal man still living under the curse of original sin and destined to die, and partaking of the infinite flesh and blood provided by an immortal Person who is fully Man (having risen from the grave) and fully God.
 
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Always in His Presence

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In your myriad of words - I don't have clue as to what you are speaking of most times. Your posts float from one topic to another to making mention of names etc. that there is no real life reference for.

I hold a Masters of Theology, but know enough to speak plainly.

Aristotle has NO place in Christian theology, bringing him up add nothing to an on topic discussion - as for patrology, when it adds to, or convolutes (like your definition of remembrance), it fails miserably in my opinion.

But thank you for not using four hundred words to express what 30 words conveys. That is refreshing.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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ditto - I had the same thing happen with my former Roman Catholic friends when I left the church. Can we not offer each other folly and just keep to a discussion?
429 posts is more than sufficient to have your position expressed and mine too, @The Liturgist has expressed his view. Lutheran views too were expressed, so why prolong this?
 
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Always in His Presence

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I have already explained this - repeating it multiple times will not change my view.
 
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Always in His Presence

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429 posts is more than sufficient to have your position expressed and mine too, @The Liturgist has expressed his view. Lutheran views too were expressed, so why prolong this?
Most of what I have posted is in reply to you. Want to end it - feel free anytime.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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Most of what I have posted is in reply to you. Want to end it - feel free anytime.
I do not think your claim is true, but yet I want to end this fruitless discussion with you.
 
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The Liturgist

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ditto - I had the same thing happen with my former Roman Catholic friends when I left the church. Can we not offer each other folly and just keep to a discussion?
I need look no further than my circle of friends from Protestant denominations who shunned me when I became a Catholic. That was an excellent example of intolerance. What you offer is folly.

FWIW, I lost no friends when I joined the Orthodox Church a decade ago. On the contrary, I invested considerable energy in maintaining and growing my network of friends among Protestants and Catholics, even among Protestants who were not from a liturgical background (for example, members of the Calvary Chapel, members of the Stone/Campbell movement, and so on). I know, and am friends, with more Christians now, from more denominations, than I have been at any previous point in my life. Of course, I have no doubt things also would have worked out this way had I joined the Assyrian Church of the East, or a Continuing Anglican church, or a Traditional Latin Mass parish or Eastern Catholic parish (I have serious objections to the Novus Ordo Missae of 1969; really they would have done so much better to simply retain the old liturgy but allow for it to be celebrated using a mix of Latin and the vernacular, which is what the Coptic Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox churches do, strategically mixing the vernacular, whether it is Arabic or English (or both) in an alternating pattern so that over time, one learns the historically valuable Coptic and Aramaic languages by exposure and contrast.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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It would really help if you read my posts before you reply.

It was certainly NOT a first Century Doctrine -
Indeed, it is a First Century doctrine; read your New Testament.
 
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The Liturgist

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The whole reason why I mentioned Aristotle is because I disagree with the Roman Catholic doctrine because of its unnecessary reliance upon Aristotelian categories!

I will readily admit that my posts can be verbose, and filled with digressions of a historical nature, and this is because my friends on CF.com enjoy that style, and I aim to please. What I try to avoid are ad hominem arguments, since these, aside from being logically fallacious, are often hurtful or offensive to the person on the receiving end, so as I see it they do no good at all, since I cannot logically prove my point using an ad hominem, but I am likely to alienate someone who might otherwise be a friend.

As for the fact that you have a ThM, congratulations! I would love some time to read your thesis. Might I ask what you studied on an undergraduate level? I myself majored in computer science, but took a minor in theology, with just enough electives so that I qualified for an MDiv, but I made the mistake of going to a seminary associated with a shrinking mainline church that even 25 years ago was increasingly dominated by liberation theology, feminist theology, postmodern theology and other unpleasant forms of liberal theology.
 
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childeye 2

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The meaning of this is my flesh and blood body which is crucified for you doesn't contradict the symbolic meaning of the bread, even because the bread wasn't crucified. The sign of the sacred thing doesn't diminish the fact that it's his real flesh and blood that was given so that sins could be forgiven, (his sacrifice).
Very well, if you think that, then I am sure you won’t mind explaining to me precisely why Fr. John Behr and other scholars of the New Testament who are fluent in Koine Greek are in error?
I never thought they're in error. I think putting oneself in the moment fits well with remembrance.
 
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The Liturgist

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Anything that opposes Scripture should not be used nor relied upon - it is like building on quicksand .....

On this we agree; this is why @MarkRohfrietsch , @Ain't Zwinglian and I are generally opposed to Zwinglianism and Memorialism, because we believe, based on our analysis of scripture, and supported by the testimony of the Early Church Fathers and the ancient liturgical texts, that these doctrines are incompatible with the plain meaning of the Institution Narratives in the Synoptic Gospels and in 1 Corinthians, read in the context of John ch. 6, and the rest of Scripture as a whole (for example, we find proto-Eucharistic material in the Old Testament, for example, in the story of the mysterious Priest-King Melchizedek, and the Paschal Siddur, and the Shewbread and Drink Offerings in the Temple.
 
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