Is the emerging world with Putin?

[mindlight]

For some years now there has been extensive revisionism going on in Western culture as we have revised our view of our own history and attempted to build new cultural and trade connections with emerging countries. Political correctness on race and racism is not just about imperial guilt and proper perspective but also in part a gimmick to boost trade with countries that used to be European colonies but are now new economic powerhouses. We have become multicultural and globalists in order to take advantage of the new centers of economic growth in the world. Extensive aid packages have aided this effort. Yet despite all this and perhaps because of recent conflicts like in Iraq and Afghanistan there is considerable resentment in the Third World towards the West. This war in Ukraine has helped draw that out.

Trawling through the Facebook news comments on the BBC the other night I was impressed by the large numbers of Africans and Asians that post hostile commentary relating to Western efforts to help Ukraine. Specifically, they suggest:

1) We caused the war by provoking Putin with talk of NATO
2) Putin is just doing what the Western world did when it built its empires and colonized the Americas for example.
3) Remember Iraq and Afghanistan. Karma!
4) The USA talks nice but is just as bad as Russia or China in actual practice. At least with Russia or China, you get what you see.
5) There is a persistent overestimation of the power of China and Russia and hero worship of Putin, especially, as he is regarded as the champion of those who do not like us very much. China is liked for its silk road initiative which has brought a lot of investment into Third World countries.
6) We act differently with a white rich world country than when it is in Asia or Africa e.g. Syrian crisis and refugees compared with Ukrainian refugees.
7) We are being judged for our godlessness and moral decadence
8) Russia and China are evidence that the world is multipolar and we do not have to bow to the USA anymore.
9) We are hypocrites with international law. We violate it when convenient but insist everyone else obeys. The West is a sort of Boris Johnson in perpetual Partygate mode making rules he does not keep himself.

On the news sites, the moderators seem to be excluding many of these comments by using their irrelevancy filters but the sheer volume of them does demand a response. Hence this thread.

1) Why do so many in the emerging world hate us so much?

2) How could the West improve its act?

3) How would you explain to an African or Asian critic why Putin's invasion must fail?

 

[Nithavela]

Are those really africans and asians, or russian trolls pretending to be africans and asians?

 

[Homeowner]

Facebook news comments on the BBC

Hardly a place to draw too many conclusions from people's beliefs about the state of current geopolitics.

 

[mindlight]

Are those really africans and asians, or russian trolls pretending to be africans and asians?

Hardly a place to draw too many conclusions from people's beliefs about the state of current geopolitics.

The observation can be reinforced with other sources and is a valid one:

African support on Ukraine shows Kremlin's soft power

Why Russia wins some sympathy in Africa and the Middle East

 

[Matt5]

1) Why do so many in the emerging world hate us so much?

2) How could the West improve its act?

3) How would you explain to an African or Asian critic why Putin's invasion must fail?

#1 Jealousy.
#2 Promote Christianity.
#3 It won't fail after Putin goes nuclear which eventually he will in a big way.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

For some years now there has been extensive revisionism going on in Western culture as we have revised our view of our own history and attempted to build new cultural and trade connections with emerging countries. Political correctness on race and racism is not just about imperial guilt and proper perspective but also in part a gimmick to boost trade with countries that used to be European colonies but are now new economic powerhouses. We have become multicultural and globalists in order to take advantage of the new centers of economic growth in the world. Extensive aid packages have aided this effort. Yet despite all this and perhaps because of recent conflicts like in Iraq and Afghanistan there is considerable resentment in the Third World towards the West. This war in Ukraine has helped draw that out.

Trawling through the Facebook news comments on the BBC the other night I was impressed by the large numbers of Africans and Asians that post hostile commentary relating to Western efforts to help Ukraine. Specifically, they suggest:

1) We caused the war by provoking Putin with talk of NATO
2) Putin is just doing what the Western world did when it built its empires and colonized the Americas for example.
3) Remember Iraq and Afghanistan. Karma!
4) The USA talks nice but is just as bad as Russia or China in actual practice. At least with Russia or China, you get what you see.
5) There is a persistent overestimation of the power of China and Russia and hero worship of Putin, especially, as he is regarded as the champion of those who do not like us very much. China is liked for its silk road initiative which has brought a lot of investment into Third World countries.
6) We act differently with a white rich world country than when it is in Asia or Africa e.g. Syrian crisis and refugees compared with Ukrainian refugees.
7) We are being judged for our godlessness and moral decadence
8) Russia and China are evidence that the world is multipolar and we do not have to bow to the USA anymore.
9) We are hypocrites with international law. We violate it when convenient but insist everyone else obeys. The West is a sort of Boris Johnson in perpetual Partygate mode making rules he does not keep himself.

On the news sites, the moderators seem to be excluding many of these comments by using their irrelevancy filters but the sheer volume of them does demand a response. Hence this thread.

1) Why do so many in the emerging world hate us so much?

2) How could the West improve its act?

3) How would you explain to an African or Asian critic why Putin's invasion must fail?

In a way, I empathize with what you're surmising here, but in the end, this OP of yours is like saying that somehow "two wrongs make a right."

The thing is, they don't.

 

[Homeowner]

The observation can be reinforced with other sources and is a valid one

Sure. Would just prefer some proper research being done about it instead of picking few headlines or local politicians trying for soundbite and of course Russia's propaganda machine is working overtime to raise grievances to distract and disrupt.

Like anywhere most probably won't care one way or another since they don't think it affects them until the price of wheat goes through the roof.

Going through the list

1) We caused the war by provoking Putin with talk of NATO

Putin caused the war by starting it.

2) Putin is just doing what the Western world did when it built its empires and colonized the Americas for example.

While true I doubt that is a common opinion. Times have changed from golden ages of colonialism and as we have seen that kind of action is now widely condemned.

3) Remember Iraq and Afghanistan. Karma!

Sounds more like misery loves company.

4) The USA talks nice but is just as bad as Russia or China in actual practice. At least with Russia or China, you get what you see.

Rather opposite, in Russian and China you are ceaselessly worked over by state controlled media apparatus that feeds you lies unrelated to reality while US at least has freedom of speech and press.

5) There is a persistent overestimation of the power of China and Russia and hero worship of Putin, especially, as he is regarded as the champion of those who do not like us very much. China is liked for its silk road initiative which has brought a lot of investment into Third World countries.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, sure, however China's commercial exploits raise lot of anger when they bribe politicians and sell locals out while China moves it people in.

6) We act differently with a white rich world country than when it is in Asia or Africa e.g. Syrian crisis and refugees compared with Ukrainian refugees.

Sure. Just like they would with people being people.

7) We are being judged for our godlessness and moral decadence

Like it is any different over there. Again people being people. Doubt their morals are any higher. They probably just can't afford as expensive vices as people in the West.

8) Russia and China are evidence that the world is multipolar and we do not have to bow to the USA anymore.

Depending on your location you can bow to Russia or China instead. Doubt it is an improvement.

9) We are hypocrites with international law. We violate it when convenient but insist everyone else obeys. The West is a sort of Boris Johnson in perpetual Partygate mode making rules he does not keep himself.

Everyone is hypocrite. Only difference being that some nations have more influence to act out on their hypocrisies than others.

 

[miamited]

Hi @mindlight

1) Why do so many in the emerging world hate us so much?

2) How could the West improve its act?

3) How would you explain to an African or Asian critic why Putin's invasion must fail?

I see that you're from Germany. I can't really provide you any answers that would necessarily apply to German geopolitical agendas and issues. But, I can tell you that the reason many other nations don't particularly like Americans is that we are greedy, egotistical bullies. I believe the 'West' could improve it's act by generally being nicer people, but that isn't likely to happen. I've read the Scriptures. We aren't going to get better at our international relationships and understandings.

You know, for years it was pretty common for many, many Americans to refer to Asians as 'slant eyes' and 'chinks'. Mexicans (esp.) and other Central Americans are still referred to by many as 'wetbacks'. Even your own people (Germans) were long called 'krauts' and 'nazis' for years after WWII. Such attitudes and understandings of God made human beings around the globe isn't likely to endear us to them. And such attitudes and understandings, once formulated, take generations to get over and even then only with hard work to overcome.

Then you add in that we (Americans) have done some pretty disastrous politically based wranglings with foreign governments and making our presence known as the saviors of the world all around the globe, but being the most deadly society on the face of the earth ourselves. Every day, here in the U.S., people are murdered with firearms and it just keeps building and building. The pile of bodies is stacking up from our own hate of one another right here within our own borders...and yet we think we are the one's to tell the rest of the world how to live. I can imagine that in some ways, the people of other nations look at American society and think, "Man! I'm glad I don't live there."

I'm not sure that I can tell someone that Putin's invasion 'must' fail, but I can certainly explain how wrong it is. What he's doing to accomplish his goal of restoring the borders of Mother Russia to its glory days. As if there really were any glory days for people living in Russia, as compared to American standards. But that's exactly the issue. Russia has pretty much always been controlled by a rather repressive form of government, but then so have a lot of other nations. Consider many of the middle eastern nations. Where women are chattel property and not allowed to even show their faces in public or drive cars or enjoy any of the modern amenities that the men get to enjoy. China, while they have over the past few decades tried to embrace a form of capitalistic economic agendas, is still considered a communist nation and has a form of government that can be overbearing on certain personal freedom issues.

So, it's a big world out there and there are governments that operate differently than ours and always have. I think that many, many people around the globe, living in these other nations, aren't particularly enamored of our attempts to get the whole world to live as we do.

Do you realize that the United States has more foreign military installations in other nations around the globe than any other nation on the face of the earth? From Politico.com:

Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant “Little Americas” to small radar facilities.

Russia, according to ponareurasia.com has less than 20:

When compared to its main competitor, Russia does not have very many military bases abroad. The United States has over 700 military facilities outside its borders, while Russia has less than 20 such facilities.

According to Wiki, there are 38 'named' American military bases around the globe.

So, it's really not hard to see that many, many people of many, many nations see the U.S. as being a kind of military bully.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Aussie Pete]

For some years now there has been extensive revisionism going on in Western culture as we have revised our view of our own history and attempted to build new cultural and trade connections with emerging countries. Political correctness on race and racism is not just about imperial guilt and proper perspective but also in part a gimmick to boost trade with countries that used to be European colonies but are now new economic powerhouses. We have become multicultural and globalists in order to take advantage of the new centers of economic growth in the world. Extensive aid packages have aided this effort. Yet despite all this and perhaps because of recent conflicts like in Iraq and Afghanistan there is considerable resentment in the Third World towards the West. This war in Ukraine has helped draw that out.

Trawling through the Facebook news comments on the BBC the other night I was impressed by the large numbers of Africans and Asians that post hostile commentary relating to Western efforts to help Ukraine. Specifically, they suggest:

1) We caused the war by provoking Putin with talk of NATO
2) Putin is just doing what the Western world did when it built its empires and colonized the Americas for example.
3) Remember Iraq and Afghanistan. Karma!
4) The USA talks nice but is just as bad as Russia or China in actual practice. At least with Russia or China, you get what you see.
5) There is a persistent overestimation of the power of China and Russia and hero worship of Putin, especially, as he is regarded as the champion of those who do not like us very much. China is liked for its silk road initiative which has brought a lot of investment into Third World countries.
6) We act differently with a white rich world country than when it is in Asia or Africa e.g. Syrian crisis and refugees compared with Ukrainian refugees.
7) We are being judged for our godlessness and moral decadence
8) Russia and China are evidence that the world is multipolar and we do not have to bow to the USA anymore.
9) We are hypocrites with international law. We violate it when convenient but insist everyone else obeys. The West is a sort of Boris Johnson in perpetual Partygate mode making rules he does not keep himself.

On the news sites, the moderators seem to be excluding many of these comments by using their irrelevancy filters but the sheer volume of them does demand a response. Hence this thread.

1) Why do so many in the emerging world hate us so much?

2) How could the West improve its act?

3) How would you explain to an African or Asian critic why Putin's invasion must fail?

Many of the leaders of the "emerging" world, as you call it, are little better than Putin. That includes supposedly democratic nations that are increasingly autocratic. India is notionally a democracy, but minorities are being treated worse now than ever. Democracy has failed in Myanmar. Much of Africa is a basket case. It is government policies and corruption that is mostly to blame. However, it is much easier to point the finger at the Western world. African dictators pocket vast amounts of wealth while their people starve.

Yes, the West is far from perfect. I note that the flood of refugees is from non-Western nations to the West. So we are not that bad after all. It's a little different with Ukraine. When the war is over, hopefully with Putin's defeat, Ukrainians will mostly go home. Not so many refugees from Africa and Asia do that.

How could the West improve its act? Repent and turn away from its wickedness and back to God. However, the wickedness of the rest of the world is not justified by the failings of the West.

I would tell an African or Asian that its none of their business. Every nation looks out for its own interests. It's always been that way and will never change, at least until Antichrist appears. Tell them to get their own house in order before finger pointing everyone else. Many of their problems are due to wars of their own making. The Sudanese can't blame the West for their wars, the Middle East conflicts are because Iran wants to rule the region, Saudi Arabia is fighting Iran indirectly in Yemen. It's funny how people complain about shortages of food. There always seems to be money for weapons.

 

[mindlight]

#1 Jealousy.
#2 Promote Christianity.
#3 It won't fail after Putin goes nuclear which eventually he will in a big way.

People always hate the number one power. Antagonists are latched on to by way of resentment, jealousy, and rebellion from the ones who dominate the status quo. Personally, I believe that there are reasons God gives the times to one power over another and the situation is dynamic. We have lived in a world dominated by Romans, Mongols, Spanish, British, and Americans. Chinas time may come also. The Germans resented the fact that the world had already been carved up by the other powers when they emerged from their long struggle towards unification in the middle of the nineteenth century. They tried to alter that by an act of will. Russia is doing that now and yet the scope of its plans is reduced by the reality of its actual power. People from Africa and Asia may still exaggerate what Russia and Putin can do because if he can do it maybe they also can break the bounds set for them and the parts written for them and move onto a larger stage and starring role.

Yes, Jesus is the answer, you were paying attention in Sunday school.

For Putin to go nuclear would be suicidal. Russia has a considerable nuclear arsenal and it would be impossible to neutralize all of it before he destroyed cities all over the world. But the West has the better arsenal and defenses and would be more likely to survive such a confrontation, though at immense cost. None of us want to live in a world rendered radioactive by such foolishness and I do not believe that Putin wants such a world for his daughters whatever the outcome in Ukraine.

 

[mindlight]

In a way, I empathize with what you're surmising here, but in the end, this OP of yours is like saying that somehow "two wrongs make a right."

The thing is, they don't.

Two wrongs do not make a right, but understanding the wrong that has fired up your enemy is a step towards peace and understanding. This war will ultimately come down to a compromise and so understanding is crucial to peace.

 

[mindlight]

Times have changed from golden ages of colonialism and as we have seen that kind of action is now widely condemned.

In a sinful world, there will always be empire builders, though the nature of an empire changes over time. Putin is a reminder of the old territorial conception of empire as opposed to financial dominance for example. There is an unreality about the view that in the 21st century we just do not do this anymore. It echoes the surprise that many felt when WW1 destroyed a century of progress. The world can just as easily go backward as forward depending on who we let rule the day.

Rather opposite, in Russian and China you are ceaselessly worked over by state controlled media apparatus that feeds you lies unrelated to reality while US at least has freedom of speech and press.

I agree with that, For all the partisanship and chaos in Western media, we have the freedom to find the truth here.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, sure, however China's commercial exploits raise lot of anger when they bribe politicians and sell locals out while China moves it people in.

Yes again, they have been very clumsy and Africans and Asians may simply find they have replaced an owner who was occasionally democratic and moral with a totalitarian one.

Everyone is hypocrite. Only difference being that some nations have more influence to act out on their hypocrisies than others.

Empowerment is a crucial theme here. The voice of the powerless shouts against the powerful but is impotent to change the path of powerful nations. Yet we cannot ignore it because the seeds of change and of the future can be heard in that voice. Indeed sometimes the cry is for justice and truth and only a fool ignores that.

 

[mindlight]

Hi @mindlight



I see that you're from Germany. I can't really provide you any answers that would necessarily apply to German geopolitical agendas and issues. But, I can tell you that the reason many other nations don't particularly like Americans is that we are greedy, egotistical bullies. I believe the 'West' could improve it's act by generally being nicer people, but that isn't likely to happen. I've read the Scriptures. We aren't going to get better at our international relationships and understandings.

You know, for years it was pretty common for many, many Americans to refer to Asians as 'slant eyes' and 'chinks'. Mexicans (esp.) and other Central Americans are still referred to by many as 'wetbacks'. Even your own people (Germans) were long called 'krauts' and 'nazis' for years after WWII. Such attitudes and understandings of God made human beings around the globe isn't likely to endear us to them. And such attitudes and understandings, once formulated, take generations to get over and even then only with hard work to overcome.

Then you add in that we (Americans) have done some pretty disastrous politically based wranglings with foreign governments and making our presence known as the saviors of the world all around the globe, but being the most deadly society on the face of the earth ourselves. Every day, here in the U.S., people are murdered with firearms and it just keeps building and building. The pile of bodies is stacking up from our own hate of one another right here within our own borders...and yet we think we are the one's to tell the rest of the world how to live. I can imagine that in some ways, the people of other nations look at American society and think, "Man! I'm glad I don't live there."

I'm not sure that I can tell someone that Putin's invasion 'must' fail, but I can certainly explain how wrong it is. What he's doing to accomplish his goal of restoring the borders of Mother Russia to its glory days. As if there really were any glory days for people living in Russia, as compared to American standards. But that's exactly the issue. Russia has pretty much always been controlled by a rather repressive form of government, but then so have a lot of other nations. Consider many of the middle eastern nations. Where women are chattel property and not allowed to even show their faces in public or drive cars or enjoy any of the modern amenities that the men get to enjoy. China, while they have over the past few decades tried to embrace a form of capitalistic economic agendas, is still considered a communist nation and has a form of government that can be overbearing on certain personal freedom issues.

So, it's a big world out there and there are governments that operate differently than ours and always have. I think that many, many people around the globe, living in these other nations, aren't particularly enamored of our attempts to get the whole world to live as we do.

Do you realize that the United States has more foreign military installations in other nations around the globe than any other nation on the face of the earth? From Politico.com:

Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant “Little Americas” to small radar facilities.

Russia, according to ponareurasia.com has less than 20:

When compared to its main competitor, Russia does not have very many military bases abroad. The United States has over 700 military facilities outside its borders, while Russia has less than 20 such facilities.

According to Wiki, there are 38 'named' American military bases around the globe.

So, it's really not hard to see that many, many people of many, many nations see the U.S. as being a kind of military bully.

God bless,
Ted

Every dominant nation through all of history could be portrayed as greedy and egotistical. But that is only to paint the dark side of power. America was a shiny city on a hill for many, a beacon of light in a dark world, and an example of freedom. The British Empire and indeed the Spanish one was meant to be an example of Christian civilization. As the light decays so the darkness takes over and we start to hear the hostile voices over the affirming ones.

An American global order has to a considerable extent been preserved by invitation and Biden has reinvigorated it after the dark days of Trump to show its value. If Trump exits NATO as he has threatened in the past then tyrants and nuclear-armed terrorists may indeed come to rule the day. This crisis has demonstrated to Europe how much we need the USA and has exposed inadequacies we should have dealt with over decades in terms of energy policy and defense for example. Without the USA China would already be oppressing the people of Taiwan and the Baltic states and eastern Europe may well be worried about the prospect of a Russian attack. America for all its faults has a global value and one of the greatest concerns of this age is that it no longer has the self-confidence to be the leader we have seen it to be since WW2.

 

[mindlight]

Many of the leaders of the "emerging" world, as you call it, are little better than Putin. That includes supposedly democratic nations that are increasingly autocratic. India is notionally a democracy, but minorities are being treated worse now than ever. Democracy has failed in Myanmar. Much of Africa is a basket case. It is government policies and corruption that is mostly to blame. However, it is much easier to point the finger at the Western world. African dictators pocket vast amounts of wealth while their people starve.

Yes, the West is far from perfect. I note that the flood of refugees is from non-Western nations to the West. So we are not that bad after all. It's a little different with Ukraine. When the war is over, hopefully with Putin's defeat, Ukrainians will mostly go home. Not so many refugees from Africa and Asia do that.

How could the West improve its act? Repent and turn away from its wickedness and back to God. However, the wickedness of the rest of the world is not justified by the failings of the West.

I would tell an African or Asian that its none of their business. Every nation looks out for its own interests. It's always been that way and will never change, at least until Antichrist appears. Tell them to get their own house in order before finger pointing everyone else. Many of their problems are due to wars of their own making. The Sudanese can't blame the West for their wars, the Middle East conflicts are because Iran wants to rule the region, Saudi Arabia is fighting Iran indirectly in Yemen. It's funny how people complain about shortages of food. There always seems to be money for weapons.

A Christian revival is the key to restoring the credibility of Western civilization. And yes the little Putins of the Third World can be differentiated from him only by the size of their missiles and they are often far worse and ignoble in their motives by comparison to him.

Also yes that is a difference between Ukrainians and many from Africa and Asia. They do not come to us disaffected with their own homeland, their men stay to fight for it. They long to return to it. While our experience of Africans and Asians is all too often they come from ruins of their own creation for their own enrichment. They shout at us so loudly because they are so angry at themselves.

 

[Aussie Pete]

A Christian revival is the key to restoring the credibility of Western civilization. And yes the little Putins of the Third World can be differentiated from him only by the size of their missiles and they are often far worse and ignoble in their motives by comparison to him.

Also yes that is a difference between Ukrainians and many from Africa and Asia. They do not come to us disaffected with their own homeland, their men stay to fight for it. They long to return to it. While our experience of Africans and Asians is all too often they come from ruins of their own creation for their own enrichment. They shout us so loudly because they are so angry at themselves.

And they are jealous. Africa has enough natural resources to be a world powerhouse. The problem is people, not environment.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Two wrongs do not make a right, but understanding the wrong that has fired up your enemy is a step towards peace and understanding. This war will ultimately come down to a compromise and so understanding is crucial to peace.

Maybe, but if "Putin's Philosopher"--or others similar to him in thought-- has had anything to do with how Russian leaders conceive of their place in the world and their ideological counterposition to the West, then I'm not sure that mutual peace and understanding will ever be the order of the day:

Philosopher known as 'Putin's brain' says Russia needs to escalate Ukraine war

 

[mindlight]

Maybe, but if "Putin's Philosopher"--or others similar to him in thought-- has had anything to do with how Russian leaders conceive of their place in the world and their ideological counterposition to the West, then I'm not sure that mutual peace and understanding will ever be the order of the day:

Philosopher known as 'Putin's brain' says Russia needs to escalate Ukraine war

Zelensky also is now increasingly doubtful that a proper conversation about peace is even possible with the Russian leader. He is now talking in terms of fighting this to the end which could take years and cost hundreds of thousands of lives. He has expressed hatred for the Russian army.

This so-called philosopher Aleksandr Dugin sounds like a Russian nationalist consumed with a vision of a greater Russia that is spiritual as much as territorial. I truly hope he is not the intellectual power behind the throne as he does not see things very clearly and his perspective is an idolatrous and reductionist one. This Rasputin-like figure until recently seemed disappointed that Putin was not driving the true destiny of Russia. If he has urged Putin toward a new Messianism that is less troubling than that Putin himself may have bought into it.

 

[miamited]

Hi @mindlight

Every dominant nation through all of history could be portrayed as greedy and egotistical. But that is only to paint the dark side of power. America was a shiny city on a hill for many, a beacon of light in a dark world, and an example of freedom. The British Empire and indeed the Spanish one was meant to be an example of Christian civilization. As the light decays so the darkness takes over and we start to hear the hostile voices over the affirming ones.

While I absolutely agree with your claim that there was a time, and for some still is, when the U.S. was a beacon of light. When our borders were completely porous and people, mostly European clamored in. We also had a period of Asian immigration that was largely unchecked on the Pacific coast. But, as the adage claims, power corrupts. After WWII we established ourselves as the most powerful military nation on the face of the earth and a lot of our 'light' began to fade through the use of our military and political power that was recognized all across the earth. We began fighting the battles of many other nations. Picking which side we thought was 'righteous' and working within that framework to then dominate the situation.

The Vietnam war, in my lifetime is a pretty good example. As I understand it, at the time that a conflict of rule started in Vietnam, they were a part of the French empire. As has since happened in India and Hong Kong, the people wanted to be self-ruled just as the early American settlers from Europe wanted to be self-ruled. The Vietnamese rose up against the French rule and ultimately was able to convince the U.S. that if they didn't help, then Vietnam would turn communist. Well, ultimately Vietnam did turn communist, in fact they are even now one of the few recognized communist nations on the earth. Guess what? It didn't ruin anyone's day that Vietnam wanted to be governed by a communistic form of governance. We wasted hundreds of thousands of lives for someone else's fight, that ultimately failed.

Then we have the Sandinista war of Nicaragua. Again, someone else's battle that we got involved in that ultimately led to a miry mess. For what? Because we're the big bad boogie man on the block, basically. Cuba, a nation with which there really isn't any reason that we can't be as friendly with them as any of our other western hemisphere nations. But for decades we've put them down and sanctioned them nearly out of existence and made life miserable for the people...for what? Because they also wanted a communistic form of governance. So we've been fighting this war of wills and might against communism and democracy. What we believe to be 'righteous' battles for mere reasons of ideology. Personally, I fully support open trade and tourism with Cuba. Let it be an island nation just like Jamaica, but with a different form of government than we have. That's ok. They aren't really going to destroy us because they practice different governance.

An American global order has to a considerable extent been preserved by invitation and Biden has reinvigorated it after the dark days of Trump to show its value. If Trump exits NATO as he has threatened in the past then tyrants and nuclear-armed terrorists may indeed come to rule the day. This crisis has demonstrated to Europe how much we need the USA and has exposed inadequacies we should have dealt with over decades in terms of energy policy and defense for example. Without the USA China would already be oppressing the people of Taiwan and the Baltic states and eastern Europe may well be worried about the prospect of a Russian attack. America for all its faults has a global value and one of the greatest concerns of this age is that it no longer has the self-confidence to be the leader we have seen it to be since WW2.

I agree, that Pres. Trump was a lousy leader with lousy ideas concerning international relations. He's much to hateful for me to ever support him as a political leader. But there again, we have shown ourselves, as a nation, to want to support meanness and overall worldly power by the many who voted for him and did elect him, well at least through the awkward system of the Electoral College. Mean and hateful people want mean and hateful people as their leader. Again another Scriptural teaching that the world loves those who are like themselves. He even continues to this day to constantly show just how mean and hateful he is by keeping all this tale of a stolen election going. This is something that America has never experienced before. That a national elected official is removed, but still continues to fight and scratch, yelling and screaming for years after, that everyone is against them and they've been treated so unfairly.

We've gone nearly 300 years, and after elections, while there may be some temporary period of a few weeks or a month that the losing team grouses, generally within a month or two everything quiets down and life goes on. Four years later we have another election. But now we've got a man who just can't stand to lose and is going to grouse about it, likely to his grave. And people still find that to be some great and grand show of leadership. Go figure? Personally, I think they're just the kind of people that are filled with hate and anger and this is a way that they get to keep the fire alive. Again, exactly what the Scriptures foretell about the situation of society and people's hearts as we get to the last days.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

That's what the word of God says about the hearts and actions of people as we move inexorably into the last days. And of course, Jesus said that in the latter days the love of most would grow cold. I think we're seeing the outcome of that on a major level in the U.S. right now. And I'm confident that it's only going to get worse...not better.

I mean really, how wicked must we, as a people be, that we see thousands upon thousands of bodies pile up every year because of pistols and automatic weapons, and yet our selfish personal rights and freedoms trump everyone else's safety.

God bless,
Ted

 

[mindlight]

Hi @mindlight



While I absolutely agree with your claim that there was a time, and for some still is, when the U.S. was a beacon of light. When our borders were completely porous and people, mostly European clamored in. We also had a period of Asian immigration that was largely unchecked on the Pacific coast. But, as the adage claims, power corrupts. After WWII we established ourselves as the most powerful military nation on the face of the earth and a lot of our 'light' began to fade through the use of our military and political power that was recognized all across the earth. We began fighting the battles of many other nations. Picking which side we thought was 'righteous' and working within that framework to then dominate the situation.

The Vietnam war, in my lifetime is a pretty good example. As I understand it, at the time that a conflict of rule started in Vietnam, they were a part of the French empire. As has since happened in India and Hong Kong, the people wanted to be self-ruled just as the early American settlers from Europe wanted to be self-ruled. The Vietnamese rose up against the French rule and ultimately was able to convince the U.S. that if they didn't help, then Vietnam would turn communist. Well, ultimately Vietnam did turn communist, in fact they are even now one of the few recognized communist nations on the earth. Guess what? It didn't ruin anyone's day that Vietnam wanted to be governed by a communistic form of governance. We wasted hundreds of thousands of lives for someone else's fight, that ultimately failed.

Then we have the Sandinista war of Nicaragua. Again, someone else's battle that we got involved in that ultimately led to a miry mess. For what? Because we're the big bad boogie man on the block, basically. Cuba, a nation with which there really isn't any reason that we can't be as friendly with them as any of our other western hemisphere nations. But for decades we've put them down and sanctioned them nearly out of existence and made life miserable for the people...for what? Because they also wanted a communistic form of governance. So we've been fighting this war of wills and might against communism and democracy. What we believe to be 'righteous' battles for mere reasons of ideology. Personally, I fully support open trade and tourism with Cuba. Let it be an island nation just like Jamaica, but with a different form of government than we have. That's ok. They aren't really going to destroy us because they practice different governance.



I agree, that Pres. Trump was a lousy leader with lousy ideas concerning international relations. He's much to hateful for me to ever support him as a political leader. But there again, we have shown ourselves, as a nation, to want to support meanness and overall worldly power by the many who voted for him and did elect him, well at least through the awkward system of the Electoral College. Mean and hateful people want mean and hateful people as their leader. Again another Scriptural teaching that the world loves those who are like themselves. He even continues to this day to constantly show just how mean and hateful he is by keeping all this tale of a stolen election going. This is something that America has never experienced before. That a national elected official is removed, but still continues to fight and scratch, yelling and screaming for years after, that everyone is against them and they've been treated so unfairly.

We've gone nearly 300 years, and after elections, while there may be some temporary period of a few weeks or a month that the losing team grouses, generally within a month or two everything quiets down and life goes on. Four years later we have another election. But now we've got a man who just can't stand to lose and is going to grouse about it, likely to his grave. And people still find that to be some great and grand show of leadership. Go figure? Personally, I think they're just the kind of people that are filled with hate and anger and this is a way that they get to keep the fire alive. Again, exactly what the Scriptures foretell about the situation of society and people's hearts as we get to the last days.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.
Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

That's what the word of God says about the hearts and actions of people as we move inexorably into the last days. And of course, Jesus said that in the latter days the love of most would grow cold. I think we're seeing the outcome of that on a major level in the U.S. right now. And I'm confident that it's only going to get worse...not better.

I mean really, how wicked must we, as a people be, that we see thousands upon thousands of bodies pile up every year because of pistols and automatic weapons, and yet our selfish personal rights and freedoms trump everyone else's safety.

God bless,
Ted

I still regard the USA as a beacon of light because it has rules about how it engages with combatants. Highly publicized misuses of its power are dealt with in a transparent society.

There were good reasons to worry about missiles in Cuba.

Vietnam was a mistake because it was first and foremost a fight for freedom by the people there. It is a warning to Putin that a nation fighting for its freedom is going to keep on fighting until the invader leaves at whatever cost.

But the big picture strategy of breaking communism was correct and lest you forget America won the Cold War. Neither Communist Vietnam nor Communist China for that matter is especially communist in practice anymore, so it seems the battle of systems was also won by the Americans.

Trump was economically sound though not if you were poor. He mainly lost because he handled covid badly. His strategy with his allies and with NATO was always a worry and if this war drags on and costs the USA too much I fear he will use it to win in 2024 and then exit NATO. There is a clear contrast of visions here though. Trump is a Putin supporter who does respect the people's vote. Biden won in 2020 and is in favor of acts of benevolence like supporting Ukraine against Russia.

America benefits in many ways that the US people may not realize from being the global leader of the NATO alliance. The global choice is between the USA and China, between democratic and totalitarian and the Americans are the better choice. The USA needs its friends because of China.

1) At a time when China is overtaking the USA economically and indeed has a far greater potential for future growth given the size of its as yet undeveloped population America's alliance with Europe continues to grant it the greater economic and financial clout.

2) NATO allies and forces not to mention the bases they provide are a force magnifier that China cannot compete with and give the USA a global reach.

3) Ideologically its defense of freedom is something that people around the world are still crying out for and is a true expression of what the USA is about. The defeat of the Nazis, Communist USSR, and indeed the dismemberment of various Islamic terrorist organizations has been a good thing for the world as a whole.

I am not discouraged by the cultural decline of Christianity in Europe and North America. The true church was never as large as advertised and is not diminished in current circumstances. The times have gotten exciting but do not yet qualify as the last of days as they do not even compare historically with calamitous times that came before them.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Hi @mindlight



I see that you're from Germany. I can't really provide you any answers that would necessarily apply to German geopolitical agendas and issues. But, I can tell you that the reason many other nations don't particularly like Americans is that we are greedy, egotistical bullies. I believe the 'West' could improve it's act by generally being nicer people, but that isn't likely to happen. I've read the Scriptures. We aren't going to get better at our international relationships and understandings.

You know, for years it was pretty common for many, many Americans to refer to Asians as 'slant eyes' and 'chinks'. Mexicans (esp.) and other Central Americans are still referred to by many as 'wetbacks'. Even your own people (Germans) were long called 'krauts' and 'nazis' for years after WWII. Such attitudes and understandings of God made human beings around the globe isn't likely to endear us to them. And such attitudes and understandings, once formulated, take generations to get over and even then only with hard work to overcome.

Then you add in that we (Americans) have done some pretty disastrous politically based wranglings with foreign governments and making our presence known as the saviors of the world all around the globe, but being the most deadly society on the face of the earth ourselves. Every day, here in the U.S., people are murdered with firearms and it just keeps building and building. The pile of bodies is stacking up from our own hate of one another right here within our own borders...and yet we think we are the one's to tell the rest of the world how to live. I can imagine that in some ways, the people of other nations look at American society and think, "Man! I'm glad I don't live there."

I'm not sure that I can tell someone that Putin's invasion 'must' fail, but I can certainly explain how wrong it is. What he's doing to accomplish his goal of restoring the borders of Mother Russia to its glory days. As if there really were any glory days for people living in Russia, as compared to American standards. But that's exactly the issue. Russia has pretty much always been controlled by a rather repressive form of government, but then so have a lot of other nations. Consider many of the middle eastern nations. Where women are chattel property and not allowed to even show their faces in public or drive cars or enjoy any of the modern amenities that the men get to enjoy. China, while they have over the past few decades tried to embrace a form of capitalistic economic agendas, is still considered a communist nation and has a form of government that can be overbearing on certain personal freedom issues.

So, it's a big world out there and there are governments that operate differently than ours and always have. I think that many, many people around the globe, living in these other nations, aren't particularly enamored of our attempts to get the whole world to live as we do.

Do you realize that the United States has more foreign military installations in other nations around the globe than any other nation on the face of the earth? From Politico.com:

Despite recently closing hundreds of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States still maintains nearly 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad—from giant “Little Americas” to small radar facilities.

Russia, according to ponareurasia.com has less than 20:

When compared to its main competitor, Russia does not have very many military bases abroad. The United States has over 700 military facilities outside its borders, while Russia has less than 20 such facilities.

According to Wiki, there are 38 'named' American military bases around the globe.

So, it's really not hard to see that many, many people of many, many nations see the U.S. as being a kind of military bully.

God bless,
Ted

Funny how many of those nations go running to the US for help when they get in trouble.