Is suicide immoral?

[arizona_sunshine]

From a Christian or non-Christian perspective, do you consider suicide immoral?

Please feel free to support, explain or respectfully challenge opinions.

 

[Blackguard_]

Well, arguably Jesus commited suicide since he came to earth with the specific purpose of getting himself killed, although he technically didn't die by his own hand. Christ's death seems to have been a suicide in the way threatening an armed person with an un-loaded gun aa in the movie "The Outsiders".

And if Jesus did it, then it can't be wrong, assuming what jesus did counts as suicide.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Well, arguably Jesus commited suicide since he came to earth with the specific purpose of getting himself killed, although he technically didn't die by his own hand. Christ's death seems to have been a suicide in the way threatening an armed person with an un-loaded gun aa in the movie "The Outsiders".

And if Jesus did it, then it can't be wrong, assuming what jesus did counts as suicide.

I figured someone might bring this into the discussion, and I find it a fair argument. I think that the difference - from a Christian perspective - is that Christ is God, and we are not. He has the authority over life and death, and eternal discernment that we do not have.

Do you feel that those who commit suicide will be held accountable before God for the pain and suffering of loved ones - the direct result of their death?

 

[arizona_sunshine]

For the record, I do feel that suicide is immoral.

 

[Tomk80]

I think this is a hard one. In my opinion, suicide has two sides.

First, it can be the endpoint of serious psychological problems. In that case I feel that the person with the disease should be treated and prevented from committing suicide.

However, if the suicide wish derives from a serious physical illness of which we have no cure, for example an advanced form of cancer, I'm not so sure.

 

[Volos]

Having known far too many people who have successfully killed themselves and hundreds more who have tired to take their own lives I can say that it is not a moral question at all. Suicide is either an act of desperation or an act of attention seeking. Both reflect a sad state of affairs and neither are involved with morality.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

First, it can be the endpoint of serious psychological problems. In that case I feel that the person with the disease should be treated and prevented from committing suicide.

I agree, and feel that in the case of depression, a firmer, more cognitive approach to psychological is definately in order. Everyone is different, I know, but I have seen depression sufferers carefully select therapists who will enable them to harbor and even take advantage of their condition.

However, if the suicide wish derives from a serious physical illness of which we have no cure, for example an advanced form of cancer, I'm not so sure.

This is where my cynical view toward suicide really falls through. I know that were I diagnosed with a terminal illness, I would rather end my life peacefully than undergo months or years of misery on a principle.

 

[Lifesaver]

Yes, it is immoral. We do not have the right to take away our lives, when they were given to us by God.

However, suicide is not to be confused with martyrdom, with acceptance of punishment, with the acceptance of natural death (when no reasonable means of survival remain) or with dying for a greater cause.

 

[joebudda]

I agree with euthanasia.

On the other side of the issue.

I feel if someone wants to die, let them. Who am I to decide weather or not they should be strung along living a miserable life if they see it that way.

It is sad for the ones who are close to them. But they must also realize that if they really did love them and the person hated life that much why torture them by forcing them to do something they can’t stand doing anymore (living).

This issue touches on personal feelings because many of us have gone through some sort of depression and even maybe entertained the idea or unsuccessfully tried. Also it is horribly heartbreaking to watch someone close to you go through it themselves. Sometime it seems to be the only way out.

I think you should let them know they are loved if you know they are thinking about it. I do think it is selfish, but we all are in one degree or another.

I feel it is a personal choice that only the person going through it has the right to decide.

 

[Coming all is clear]

You have to look at this on a cultural basis. The act of killing ones self is only looked at negatively by westerners. In many cultures suicide is expectable. because these cultures imprint the idea that if one loses there job due to there own incompetence then they carry great shame on them selves and on the name of there family. That by ending their life they are free from this bond of great shame. Suicide does not have to always be about shame. great sadness, personal failure, or loss of ones honor it can also be a sign of loyalty or a form of protest. Many a Samurai would commit Seppuku or Haiku upon the death of there lord showing they could serve no other lord. Also many people have committed suicide in protest of something. The samurais form of death known as Seppuku is not quick by any means. Its purpose is to be long and painful to show that they are killing them self not because of coward ness but because they are unable to live without honor and by such a prolonged death they have regained this honor. The act takes several hours to be completed. Although latter in history many samurai had there heads cut almost off by a second samurai after completing the first step in the act. This was done in the belief that they knew they had the courage to sit through it until they died but because they knew this they were going to end it quickly. Having witnessed death through Seppuku I can tell you it is quite a thing to see.

 

[coyoteBR]

In my view, in the end, it's a matter of Trusting God.
If He gave us a fleshy body, and we're enjoying it at the present moment, it's because our mission here is not yet completed. It's because we still have lots to do.
It's not our right to shorten our experience here in anyway. Who knows what can happen tomorrow?
I like to say that living is like seeing a part of a letter of a word of a phrase. Only God sees the whole book.

 

[GMRELIC]

This is a topic that really hits home with me, my ex wife, the mother of my children took her own life in 1994 at the age of 23 years old after a 6 year battle with depression, I do not condone suicide, but I do somewhat understand it. her pain of living finally surpassed her fear of dying, depression is a disease like cancer, cancer takes peoples lives, and so does depression. She had under gone treatment for her depression for several years but after the birth of our second child, she just seemed untreatable, and nothing seemed to work, her depression in my words became terminal.
even though I do not agree with suicide, I think our loving God understands the termoil
these people live in, and with his grace he opens his gates of heaven to welcome those that have fought the disease so hard, but lost the battle, I just had a gut feeling that suicide would be the result of my ex wives illness, before she died, she never attempted suicide before, she was successful on her first attempt. Her mental health workers assured me for several years she was not suicidal, just bi-polar, and I should not worry about that. but now looking back on it the signs were there. I have always heard the suicide is a permenant solution to a temporary problem, but I disagree with that in some ways, suicide is the only way they see to rid thier life of such horrid pain and despair. only God knows the tormoil they are going through, only God feels thier pain, and I don't think God condems those who die from depression anymore than he will condemn those who die from cancer or heart disease. Just my opinion,

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Having known far too many people who have successfully killed themselves and hundreds more who have tired to take their own lives I can say that it is not a moral question at all. Suicide is either an act of desperation or an act of attention seeking. Both reflect a sad state of affairs and neither are involved with morality.

Since I regard homocide on moral terms, I have a hard time completely detaching suicide from its moral implications. Far more often than not, suicide does not merely effect one person, but many. To a considerable degree.

 

[Joe Atheist]

Do you feel that those who commit suicide will be held accountable before God for the pain and suffering of loved ones - the direct result of their death?

This assumes, of course, that their death causes pain and suffering of loved ones. Many suicides in America are committed by elderly who's loved ones are already experiencing the pain and suffering of watching them deteriorate. To their loved ones, their death may come as a relief. (and I am not saying that in any kind of cruel way)

But otherwise, yes. I think we are all accountable for any pain and suffering we cause. (I just have non-theistic ideas of how those accounts get balanced)

 

[Girlfriend]

i think it is immoral as God gave us the gift of Life. Its just that God has given us choices to make and if we make bad choices he will help us get thru them but killing yoself is a bit difficult to ask God to get you outta that one

 

[arizona_sunshine]

I think our loving God understands the termoil
these people live in

I agree with this perspective, and believe that a loving Father will be understanding of each experience separately. It is certainly not my place to pass judgement upon anyone, and I have no desire to do that.

From a purely impersonal viewpoint, I, like you, cannot condone or romanticize suicide as a literary concept. coming, all is clear related a different cultural perspective, but I do not agree with his suggestion of the Western reaction to suicide. As an abstract concept, suicide has been celebrated as a beautiful statement of love, pain, defeat, faith but ultimate power throughout the history of worldwide literature. I cannot accept this perspective, and I do not attribute my opinion to the culture to which I have been most exposed. I regard it as a completely selfish act, and I cannot attach 'honor' to it.

 

[GMRELIC]

From a purely impersonal viewpoint, I, like you, cannot condone or romanticize suicide as a literary concept. coming, all is clear related a different cultural perspective, but I do not agree with his suggestion of the Western reaction to suicide. As an abstract concept, suicide has been celebrated as a beautiful statement of love, pain, defeat, faith but ultimate power throughout the history of worldwide literature. I cannot accept this perspective, and I do not attribute my opinion to the culture to which I have been most exposed. I regard it as a completely selfish act, and I cannot attach 'honor' to it.

there is absolutly no honor at all to suicide, It really destroys more lives than that of the person who commits it. My children (my son was 5 and my daughter was 3 when thier mother committed suicide) were in my custody when thier mother chose to end her life, never really understood why she did it, why she didn't love them enough to stay around, My son (who by the way was killed 12/28/03) probably had the worst time dealing with it because he did have a few memories of her. Drs, and myself have explained depression to them both but they really could not understand, my daughter has issues that if she were never born her mother would not have gotten sicker, my son just coudln't understand why someone could not find the joy in life to want to continue living. I actually think it was embarassing to both of my children that thier mother chose to end her life, depression is a very difficult thing to understand if you have never gone through it, it robs one of everything they have, We divorced 2 years before her suicide, because I, like most of the population, just could not understand what she was going through and i did not have the patience to deal with it any longer. I don't think she was being selfish when she chose to end her life, I think she just had all she could take, she had lost everything.
her family, her job, her self respect, her dignity. her ambition, everything was gone. I don't think she did it for attention, or for glamor, she had a disease so bad she just could not go on.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

her family, her job, her self respect, her dignity. her ambition, everything was gone. I don't think she did it for attention, or for glamor, she had a disease so bad she just could not go on.

I dont know that I could ever understand that.

 

[Tomk80]

I'd say there is a large difference between the examples given by Coming, all is clear and suicide in a Western perspective.

In the eastern perspective, suicide is performed as a decision because circumstances around the people don't make their live valuable anymore. For example, in the case of the Samurais, their actions had created a situation were suicide is expected by their culture. However, in the case of depression for example, living becomes unbearable for the person because of the person's own feelings. These feelings are probably never fully understood by their family and friends because they are the result of sickness. I don't know whether these suicides would be excepted in other cultures, since the suicide serves no specific purpose, other than the person's own.

 

[mpshiel]

GMRELIC, I am truely sadden by the tragedy that has struck you and your family.

I am one of those who have attempted suicide; the first time it was (you may find this interesting Lifesaver) in the only way I thought was approved by the Church - starvation. I felt suicide should be a determined act of will, rather than a moment of despondancy.

I think the old axiom, "Where there is life there is hope" is backwards. It should read, "where there is hope, there is life." It is the total absense of all hope which makes death appealing. When day after day is pain then why is wishing to just sleep such a horrible thing? I think the problem with depression is that people think that those who have it don't struggle, don't try enough when in reality they are probably struggling everyday just to remain where they are.

I've had friends who committed suicide and while I think it probably is a sin, it rates up there with "gee, she's hot" as you get hit by the bus. I don't think God wants people to suffer and while He/She may not think of it as the best choice, I think God would understand. Cowper, one of the early songwriters spent 16 years depressed (and if you read his songs you will get an idea) - he was neighbors to the man who wrote Amazing Grace who used to come and drag him on walks. Yet, after the 16 years he went on to become one of England's greatest poets. That I think is the tragedy of suicide. Once you die, your story is over. Others go on, and fall in love, and join together, have children, accomplish things and yet, you're out of it all.

If there is a way to reach a person, to make them know they are loved, to give them to will to fight on, maybe they feel they aren't worth living for but thier love of someone else is. I don't know I just think that we have emergency teams in hospitals where 4 or 5 experts work for hours over a patient, they are watched for days and weeks and given the most intensive treatment and we call the people who do this (and rightly so) lifesavers. Is it possible to do the same for those who fight the unseen illnesses?