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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Is Slavery Moral?
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<blockquote data-quote="Moral Orel" data-source="post: 72865811" data-attributes="member: 377019"><p>Uh huh... Now show me where I backed off from that by saying there was some immoral law He didn't need to mention.</p><p></p><p>So what that it violates their free will? Pharaoh had a hardened heart to God before God did anything, fine. The story goes that he would have let the Israelites go sooner, but God didn't let him make that free choice. God violated his conscious free will to ensure His will was done.</p><p></p><p>See, there you go again saying "all Roman law". It implies that there is some long laundry list of things Jesus needed to condemn or that Roman law specifically was what He was here to condemn. I'm saying if He was here, in at least <em>some</em> capacity to tell us specifically how to act, then He should have completely told us how to act regardless of how the Romans would feel about that, instead of leaving it to us to take 1000+ years to figure it out on our own. </p><p></p><p>It isn't logically impossible nor is it against God's nature to perform miracles to control the course of human events. If you don't know why Jesus didn't condemn slavery, then say "I don't know". I don't have to prove that Jesus liked slavery through some logical argument. All I'm showing is that the reasons you have invented don't hold water.</p><p></p><p>Ah, see? I knew that's what you were up to all along. This is exactly what I said I was suspicious of when you first asked me about my moral framework. You might have noticed that my responses in this post in particular have become a lot more snippy than usual, and that's thanks to this remark. I won't be walking that attitude back either. I don't need to prove that slavery is wrong. That isn't what we were discussing. We both agree slavery is wrong so how I come to that conclusion and how you come to that conclusion is irrelevant. We were discussing whether the Bible condemned it or not. Just as I suspected, you weren't asking about how I arrive at my morals to show me that they actually come from God, you just wanted to be able to claim yours are better in an attempt to dismiss an argument that we weren't having. If you had bothered to really endeavor to understand my position you would have found that it bases itself in an ultimately inexplicable metaphysical concept that is absolutely open to being caused by the divine. But instead, you chose to attack it, based on about a paragraph of a description, for your true ends to dismiss my argument that the Bible expressly allows for slavery. I'll learn to be less trusting of Christians in the future who ask me irrelevant questions about myself.</p><p></p><p>My personal story, while not something I generally bother to hide, is not the topic of this thread and I don't want to see it used to some dishonest end to dismiss the argument we were having in a similar way that you have used questioning my moral framework, so I won't be answering questions of this nature anymore.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Moral Orel, post: 72865811, member: 377019"] Uh huh... Now show me where I backed off from that by saying there was some immoral law He didn't need to mention. So what that it violates their free will? Pharaoh had a hardened heart to God before God did anything, fine. The story goes that he would have let the Israelites go sooner, but God didn't let him make that free choice. God violated his conscious free will to ensure His will was done. See, there you go again saying "all Roman law". It implies that there is some long laundry list of things Jesus needed to condemn or that Roman law specifically was what He was here to condemn. I'm saying if He was here, in at least [I]some[/I] capacity to tell us specifically how to act, then He should have completely told us how to act regardless of how the Romans would feel about that, instead of leaving it to us to take 1000+ years to figure it out on our own. It isn't logically impossible nor is it against God's nature to perform miracles to control the course of human events. If you don't know why Jesus didn't condemn slavery, then say "I don't know". I don't have to prove that Jesus liked slavery through some logical argument. All I'm showing is that the reasons you have invented don't hold water. Ah, see? I knew that's what you were up to all along. This is exactly what I said I was suspicious of when you first asked me about my moral framework. You might have noticed that my responses in this post in particular have become a lot more snippy than usual, and that's thanks to this remark. I won't be walking that attitude back either. I don't need to prove that slavery is wrong. That isn't what we were discussing. We both agree slavery is wrong so how I come to that conclusion and how you come to that conclusion is irrelevant. We were discussing whether the Bible condemned it or not. Just as I suspected, you weren't asking about how I arrive at my morals to show me that they actually come from God, you just wanted to be able to claim yours are better in an attempt to dismiss an argument that we weren't having. If you had bothered to really endeavor to understand my position you would have found that it bases itself in an ultimately inexplicable metaphysical concept that is absolutely open to being caused by the divine. But instead, you chose to attack it, based on about a paragraph of a description, for your true ends to dismiss my argument that the Bible expressly allows for slavery. I'll learn to be less trusting of Christians in the future who ask me irrelevant questions about myself. My personal story, while not something I generally bother to hide, is not the topic of this thread and I don't want to see it used to some dishonest end to dismiss the argument we were having in a similar way that you have used questioning my moral framework, so I won't be answering questions of this nature anymore. [/QUOTE]
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